redfan259999888
Active member
Yeah, only one game, but we look no different then last year, you would have thought they'd play like they have something to prove this year, I guess not.
Very disappointing.
Very disappointing.
Bowling Green, Fri. Nov. 9, 6:30p, FS2 / 570 WMCA
- Thread starter rcatalano
- Start date
@MarleyPaul22
Shamorie Ponds said he was battling a ‘minor knee issue’ today, per @StJohnsBBall, thus the extended rest in 2nd half. #sjubb
6+ day breaks between games can go either way, but my guess is, it's a very good thing that we don't have a game until next friday, given the physical situation of two of our players tonight.
Shamorie Ponds said he was battling a ‘minor knee issue’ today, per @StJohnsBBall, thus the extended rest in 2nd half. #sjubb
6+ day breaks between games can go either way, but my guess is, it's a very good thing that we don't have a game until next friday, given the physical situation of two of our players tonight.
redfan25976l
Member
There were stretches during the game where st johns had all 5 players on offense beyond the 3 point line! A lot of one on one with no possible rebound if missed shot. Need posting and screening on base line no matter size.....In the 2 nd half started to see more activity in the lane....but unless st johns get some work under the basket it will be a long season....hopefully some of these young "stars" will get it....lastly...figueroa is best player in the floor...
guinness77
Well-known member
People would have complained anyway so maybe tonight was a good thing. We did win. Like I said, I don’t like commenting on our recruiting, but how don’t we ever have big men?
Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Danny Noonan" post=301317]Mullin sitting Ponds early second half for Trimble was necessary ,Ponds was getting torched on the peremiter (or dogging it). Turned the game around. Ponds came back in and looked like a different player....... 2-0.[/quote]
Advertised as one of the best backcourts in college yet having to sit Ponds and Simon sometimes lost is not a good visual against lesser teams. Except for the last minutes heroics by Ponds, the Bowling Green backcourt was smarter and more efficient. While Trimble played hard defense he was not part of the offense and a couple of times switched to guard the 6'10 Wiggins. No one should be comfortable with this win or the match ups. We almost lost the game at home in the final seconds. Wiggins scored 12 points and grabbed 10 rebounds and we had to double team him a few times after Clark, our 6'7 center went to the bench. For those bemoaning not giving the freshman any burn, blame the starters for underperforming. Had we lost the game even the most positive posters would be having concerns for a post season possibility. Please note there was not one block in the game while Owens had 6 in his first game at TT. The Bowling Green big Wiggins had 26 blocks all last season. The dead horse we will be beating this year is "no inside game".
Three point defense continues to be non existent. It will interesting to see if this staff can prepare these kids for last place Rutgers.
Advertised as one of the best backcourts in college yet having to sit Ponds and Simon sometimes lost is not a good visual against lesser teams. Except for the last minutes heroics by Ponds, the Bowling Green backcourt was smarter and more efficient. While Trimble played hard defense he was not part of the offense and a couple of times switched to guard the 6'10 Wiggins. No one should be comfortable with this win or the match ups. We almost lost the game at home in the final seconds. Wiggins scored 12 points and grabbed 10 rebounds and we had to double team him a few times after Clark, our 6'7 center went to the bench. For those bemoaning not giving the freshman any burn, blame the starters for underperforming. Had we lost the game even the most positive posters would be having concerns for a post season possibility. Please note there was not one block in the game while Owens had 6 in his first game at TT. The Bowling Green big Wiggins had 26 blocks all last season. The dead horse we will be beating this year is "no inside game".
Three point defense continues to be non existent. It will interesting to see if this staff can prepare these kids for last place Rutgers.
The first 2 games have shown the same common thread:
1. The offense will be fine. There are a ton of scoring options, and if all else fails you can still give the ball to Ponds and get out of the way.
2. The intensity and effort on D and the boards are woefully lacking. To be competitive, this team needs to commit to gang rebounding, playing fundamentally sound D, and playing with focus on every defensive possession. There are far too many fouls that stem from not moving their feet and playing with basic defensive principles. And if they do not make it difficult for opponents to bring the ball up the court and then to get the ball inside, they will get crushed by a team with a good post game.
3. There is no evidence thus far that the coaching staff has identified, is concerned about, or is doing anything about any of the items in #2.
I suspect the Rutgers game may be a rude awakening for our group (if tonight's game wasn't) if they do not show up with a completely different attitude about defense.
1. The offense will be fine. There are a ton of scoring options, and if all else fails you can still give the ball to Ponds and get out of the way.
2. The intensity and effort on D and the boards are woefully lacking. To be competitive, this team needs to commit to gang rebounding, playing fundamentally sound D, and playing with focus on every defensive possession. There are far too many fouls that stem from not moving their feet and playing with basic defensive principles. And if they do not make it difficult for opponents to bring the ball up the court and then to get the ball inside, they will get crushed by a team with a good post game.
3. There is no evidence thus far that the coaching staff has identified, is concerned about, or is doing anything about any of the items in #2.
I suspect the Rutgers game may be a rude awakening for our group (if tonight's game wasn't) if they do not show up with a completely different attitude about defense.
Class of 72
Active member
[quote="guinness77" post=301330]People would have complained anyway so maybe tonight was a good thing. We did win. Like I said, I don’t like commenting on our recruiting, but how don’t we ever have big men?[/quote]
Any players over 6'8 have left the program rather than play for this staff. If they can't recruit over Keita you can visit the staff in California in the summer of 2019. Now, imagine games where either Keita cannot play or fouls quickly. There will be difficult match ups to say the least.
Any players over 6'8 have left the program rather than play for this staff. If they can't recruit over Keita you can visit the staff in California in the summer of 2019. Now, imagine games where either Keita cannot play or fouls quickly. There will be difficult match ups to say the least.
[quote="Class of 72" post=301332][quote="Danny Noonan" post=301317]Mullin sitting Ponds early second half for Trimble was necessary ,Ponds was getting torched on the peremiter (or dogging it). Turned the game around. Ponds came back in and looked like a different player....... 2-0.[/quote]
Advertised as one of the best backcourts in college yet having to sit Ponds and Simon sometimes lost is not a good visual against lesser teams. Except for the last minutes heroics by Ponds, the Bowling Green backcourt was smarter and more efficient. While Trimble played hard defense he was not part of the offense and a couple of times switched to guard the 6'10 Wiggins. No one should be comfortable with this win or the match ups. We almost lost the game at home in the final seconds. Wiggins scored 12 points and grabbed 10 rebounds and we had to double team him a few times after Clark, our 6'7 center went to the bench. For those bemoaning not giving the freshman any burn, blame the starters for underperforming. Had we lost the game even the most positive posters would be having concerns for a post season possibility. Please note there was not one block in the game while Owens had 6 in his first game at TT. The Bowling Green big Wiggins had 26 blocks all last season. The dead horse we will be beating this year is "no inside game".
Three point defense continues to be non existent. It will interesting to see if this staff can prepare these kids for last place Rutgers.[/quote]
FWIW I took bowling green +19. So you know where I stand.
Advertised as one of the best backcourts in college yet having to sit Ponds and Simon sometimes lost is not a good visual against lesser teams. Except for the last minutes heroics by Ponds, the Bowling Green backcourt was smarter and more efficient. While Trimble played hard defense he was not part of the offense and a couple of times switched to guard the 6'10 Wiggins. No one should be comfortable with this win or the match ups. We almost lost the game at home in the final seconds. Wiggins scored 12 points and grabbed 10 rebounds and we had to double team him a few times after Clark, our 6'7 center went to the bench. For those bemoaning not giving the freshman any burn, blame the starters for underperforming. Had we lost the game even the most positive posters would be having concerns for a post season possibility. Please note there was not one block in the game while Owens had 6 in his first game at TT. The Bowling Green big Wiggins had 26 blocks all last season. The dead horse we will be beating this year is "no inside game".
Three point defense continues to be non existent. It will interesting to see if this staff can prepare these kids for last place Rutgers.[/quote]
FWIW I took bowling green +19. So you know where I stand.
[quote="Delaware" post=301296]In Florida with no access to the game on FS2 on Comcast. That's another story. Following the game here, it is apparent we have many posters who know better how to coach this team then the horrible staff that is running the show. 80% of the commentary is negative, for good reason. It's the same BS coaching approach now in its 4th year. Its old and needs to be dealth with. I'm not a huge poster, but what I've seen the past 4 years is a disgrace in terms of coaching.
To go along with a putrid job getting some legitimate size on this team.[/quote]
Which poster do you choose we hire as next coach?
To go along with a putrid job getting some legitimate size on this team.[/quote]
Which poster do you choose we hire as next coach?
[quote="Phillip casinelli" post=301300]I am one the biggest Mullin fans, as are almost everyone on this site, growing up watching him play. I also, have been a high school basketball coach for over 20 yrs. I just dont understand the stagnant 1on 1 offense. No flow, no screens, 1on 1 while 4 guys stand around. Lack of al ow scoring threat is a major issue.[/quote]
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.
[quote="johnny redman" post=301329]There were stretches during the game where st johns had all 5 players on offense beyond the 3 point line! A lot of one on one with no possible rebound if missed shot. Need posting and screening on base line no matter size.....In the 2 nd half started to see more activity in the lane....but unless st johns get some work under the basket it will be a long season....hopefully some of these young "stars" will get it....lastly...figueroa is best player in the floor...[/quote]
Figueroa is the only one who hits the offensive glass consistently. It's a philosophy problem. That has to be stressed. The 98-99 team hit the glass like maniacs--no possession was as over with the ball in the air. I think we had 16 offensive rebounds in the Elite Eight game. Shooting can be hot or cold any given night, but offensive rebounding will always be there for teams that want it.
I have to disagree with you about Figgy. He had some great moments but I thought he got exposed a bit. He can't cover anyone. Heron was terrific on both ends. Figgy will have some growing pains.
Figueroa is the only one who hits the offensive glass consistently. It's a philosophy problem. That has to be stressed. The 98-99 team hit the glass like maniacs--no possession was as over with the ball in the air. I think we had 16 offensive rebounds in the Elite Eight game. Shooting can be hot or cold any given night, but offensive rebounding will always be there for teams that want it.
I have to disagree with you about Figgy. He had some great moments but I thought he got exposed a bit. He can't cover anyone. Heron was terrific on both ends. Figgy will have some growing pains.
Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Room112" post=301337][quote="Delaware" post=301296]In Florida with no access to the game on FS2 on Comcast. That's another story. Following the game here, it is apparent we have many posters who know better how to coach this team then the horrible staff that is running the show. 80% of the commentary is negative, for good reason. It's the same BS coaching approach now in its 4th year. Its old and needs to be dealth with. I'm not a huge poster, but what I've seen the past 4 years is a disgrace in terms of coaching.
To go along with a putrid job getting some legitimate size on this team.[/quote]
Which poster do you choose we hire as next coach?[/quote]
The answer to your question is obvious. It has to be a HUGE poster since we need SIZE.
To go along with a putrid job getting some legitimate size on this team.[/quote]
Which poster do you choose we hire as next coach?[/quote]
The answer to your question is obvious. It has to be a HUGE poster since we need SIZE.
[quote="Section3" post=301340][quote="Phillip casinelli" post=301300]I am one the biggest Mullin fans, as are almost everyone on this site, growing up watching him play. I also, have been a high school basketball coach for over 20 yrs. I just dont understand the stagnant 1on 1 offense. No flow, no screens, 1on 1 while 4 guys stand around. Lack of al ow scoring threat is a major issue.[/quote]
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.[/quote]
This is spot on. When you give college players the freedom to choose everyone wants to shoot and dribble and nobody wants to do the dirty work. Guys like Simon need defined roles and clear boundaries.
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.[/quote]
This is spot on. When you give college players the freedom to choose everyone wants to shoot and dribble and nobody wants to do the dirty work. Guys like Simon need defined roles and clear boundaries.
ErickTheRed
Member
WVU goin down to UBuff
Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Marillac" post=301343][quote="Section3" post=301340][quote="Phillip casinelli" post=301300]I am one the biggest Mullin fans, as are almost everyone on this site, growing up watching him play. I also, have been a high school basketball coach for over 20 yrs. I just dont understand the stagnant 1on 1 offense. No flow, no screens, 1on 1 while 4 guys stand around. Lack of al ow scoring threat is a major issue.[/quote]
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.[/quote]
This is spot on. When you give college players the freedom to choose everyone wants to shoot and dribble and nobody wants to do the dirty work. Guys like Simon need defined roles and clear boundaries.[/quote]
Simon is a slasher. That should be his role. It's bad enough we have nothing inside or anything that even resembles an inside game but the perimeter defense played by our guards thus far have been embarrassing. I lost count of the open threes and am befuddled that Williams, supposedly a good defender, didn't get time. Is it too early to predict which, if not all of the freshmen will transfer? Tradition is tradition in the Mullin era.
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.[/quote]
This is spot on. When you give college players the freedom to choose everyone wants to shoot and dribble and nobody wants to do the dirty work. Guys like Simon need defined roles and clear boundaries.[/quote]
Simon is a slasher. That should be his role. It's bad enough we have nothing inside or anything that even resembles an inside game but the perimeter defense played by our guards thus far have been embarrassing. I lost count of the open threes and am befuddled that Williams, supposedly a good defender, didn't get time. Is it too early to predict which, if not all of the freshmen will transfer? Tradition is tradition in the Mullin era.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
The talent level here, and lack of size, is not far off from the 1998-99 Elite 8 team. And that team didn't exactly have Adolph Rupp coaching them. Sure, they are undersized, but how many teams have the kind of athletes we do? Guys who can score off the dribble and break down their man like we have? Pre season Big East player of the year, and a back court mate that is every bit as good and probably a better pro prospect. On top of that, these guys are expereinced. It's early, and they may gel, but there is just no excuse for the type of play we all saw tonight, and no excuse for not dancing in March. Just way, way too much talent to settle for mediocrity.
[quote="Class of 72" post=301346][quote="Marillac" post=301343][quote="Section3" post=301340][quote="Phillip casinelli" post=301300]I am one the biggest Mullin fans, as are almost everyone on this site, growing up watching him play. I also, have been a high school basketball coach for over 20 yrs. I just dont understand the stagnant 1on 1 offense. No flow, no screens, 1on 1 while 4 guys stand around. Lack of al ow scoring threat is a major issue.[/quote]
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.[/quote]
This is spot on. When you give college players the freedom to choose everyone wants to shoot and dribble and nobody wants to do the dirty work. Guys like Simon need defined roles and clear boundaries.[/quote]
Simon is a slasher. That should be his role. It's bad enough we have nothing inside or anything that even resembles an inside game but the perimeter defense played by our guards thus far have been embarrassing. I lost count of the open threes and am befuddled that Williams, supposedly a good defender, didn't get time. Is it too early to predict which, if not all of the freshmen will transfer? Tradition is tradition in the Mullin era.[/quote]
Simon is not a slasher. He has a terrible handle for a guard/wing. He is too wild and he's a nightmare at the end of games. He also kills spacing when he lives on the perimeter. He can pass really well I'll give him that but there's no reason he can't do that from the low or high post. Simon is really dangerous cutting to the basket or in the paint. He's too fast for big men off 1-2 dribbles and he's too big for guards. He also has a 7'2 wing span and can board like an animal.
Look at his skill set compared to Heron. Heron's dribble is so tight and he's so always so measured. Simon is 100 mph and tries to figure it out on the fly. He's incapable of making counter moves like Ponds and Heron.
Pro style offense that just relies on individual skills will not work here. In the pros everyone is skilled enough to make a shot, and at a high % in the case of open looks.
IMO, will not work here. Kids need more structure and a plan. We totally undervalue the importance of 2 points and especially layups. Wasn’t until 2nd half when we finally woke up and realized that we could score easily if we took it to the basket or posted a guard. Our infatuation with the 3 will hurt us.[/quote]
This is spot on. When you give college players the freedom to choose everyone wants to shoot and dribble and nobody wants to do the dirty work. Guys like Simon need defined roles and clear boundaries.[/quote]
Simon is a slasher. That should be his role. It's bad enough we have nothing inside or anything that even resembles an inside game but the perimeter defense played by our guards thus far have been embarrassing. I lost count of the open threes and am befuddled that Williams, supposedly a good defender, didn't get time. Is it too early to predict which, if not all of the freshmen will transfer? Tradition is tradition in the Mullin era.[/quote]
Simon is not a slasher. He has a terrible handle for a guard/wing. He is too wild and he's a nightmare at the end of games. He also kills spacing when he lives on the perimeter. He can pass really well I'll give him that but there's no reason he can't do that from the low or high post. Simon is really dangerous cutting to the basket or in the paint. He's too fast for big men off 1-2 dribbles and he's too big for guards. He also has a 7'2 wing span and can board like an animal.
Look at his skill set compared to Heron. Heron's dribble is so tight and he's so always so measured. Simon is 100 mph and tries to figure it out on the fly. He's incapable of making counter moves like Ponds and Heron.
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[quote="Ray Morgan" post=301347]The talent level here, and lack of size, is not far off from the 1998-99 Elite 8 team. And that team didn't exactly have Adolph Rupp coaching them. Sure, they are undersized, but how many teams have the kind of athletes we do? Guys who can score off the dribble and break down their man like we have? Pre season Big East player of the year, and a back court mate that is every bit as good and probably a better pro prospect. On top of that, these guys are expereinced. It's early, and they may gel, but there is just no excuse for the type of play we all saw tonight, and no excuse for not dancing in March. Just way, way too much talent to settle for mediocrity.[/quote]
Two differences between this group, and that one:
1. We had a true point guard in Erick Barkley. I love Ponds, Heron, and Simon (though the latter frustrated me tonight), but they are pretty much all hybrid 1 and 2 guards. Not a true distributor among them.
2. That team had Ron Artest, who was easily the most unique ballplayer we had in my close to 30 years following this team. They talk about positionless basketball these days. Well, Ron was the ultimate positionless player. He really could do it all. There were times that year when he was our second ballhandler, and there were times where he played the 5 effectively. A true once in a generation type player.
Two differences between this group, and that one:
1. We had a true point guard in Erick Barkley. I love Ponds, Heron, and Simon (though the latter frustrated me tonight), but they are pretty much all hybrid 1 and 2 guards. Not a true distributor among them.
2. That team had Ron Artest, who was easily the most unique ballplayer we had in my close to 30 years following this team. They talk about positionless basketball these days. Well, Ron was the ultimate positionless player. He really could do it all. There were times that year when he was our second ballhandler, and there were times where he played the 5 effectively. A true once in a generation type player.
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