Best SJU big man you've seen
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[quote="Paul Massell" post=385193][quote="austour" post=385188] ... I get that we all like Ty because he was a fighter who overachieved vs. his abilities (I do too), and that most despise Z because he wasn't Lew Alcindor or Patrick Ewing, but putting Ty in the top big men in SJU history is, well, revisionist history. Unless of course you started watching basketball his senior year. Then you haven't really seen any productive STJ bigs at all so I might agree, though I would take AG over Ty myself, they were both little big men.[/quote]
I don't and didn't hate Zendon. I did like Zendon and he was effective in his own way but he was not exactly a power player as the OP indicated. I listed Grant based upon the parameters given and specific to both the title of the thread, and my own statement "of the guys I've seen"
Definitely weighted on his senior year because he was extremely effective on that team.
Early 80's I lived in a boys home. I was a default St John's fan because a lot of my family went there and even at a young age I said I was going there. One of the staff was a former college player from DC and later he and another staff also from DC (briefly in NBA) became my coach. Last I checked he was still lighting it up in the senior league in California in his 60s. These guys were G'town fans and friendly with John Thompson, good friends with Sugar Ray Leonard and a bunch of NBA players. So I watched every G'town game available. This guy would even let us watch tv at non tv times just to watch g'town games. It was a running competition between us St John's / G'town but I did not have the luxury of putting on the St John's games other than when they played g'town. So until mid 80s I actually have more memories of g'town than SJU. So big men start with Wennington and Berry for me and I was a teen then. From then on you basically have your choice of:
Williams, Werdann, Scott, Hamilton, Z, Grant, Glover and a few others that would not really be up for consideration. Doesn't exact seem like a stretch or revisionist history to me to think Grant deserves to be in the conversation.[/quote]
No worries Paul. I didn't read the original post and the subject line of the thread is singular. I would list every player in your post above Ty, not there's anything wrong with that. But I guess the #100 song in WABC's top 100 of 1971 was one of the best songs of the year as well.
I don't and didn't hate Zendon. I did like Zendon and he was effective in his own way but he was not exactly a power player as the OP indicated. I listed Grant based upon the parameters given and specific to both the title of the thread, and my own statement "of the guys I've seen"
Definitely weighted on his senior year because he was extremely effective on that team.
Early 80's I lived in a boys home. I was a default St John's fan because a lot of my family went there and even at a young age I said I was going there. One of the staff was a former college player from DC and later he and another staff also from DC (briefly in NBA) became my coach. Last I checked he was still lighting it up in the senior league in California in his 60s. These guys were G'town fans and friendly with John Thompson, good friends with Sugar Ray Leonard and a bunch of NBA players. So I watched every G'town game available. This guy would even let us watch tv at non tv times just to watch g'town games. It was a running competition between us St John's / G'town but I did not have the luxury of putting on the St John's games other than when they played g'town. So until mid 80s I actually have more memories of g'town than SJU. So big men start with Wennington and Berry for me and I was a teen then. From then on you basically have your choice of:
Williams, Werdann, Scott, Hamilton, Z, Grant, Glover and a few others that would not really be up for consideration. Doesn't exact seem like a stretch or revisionist history to me to think Grant deserves to be in the conversation.[/quote]
No worries Paul. I didn't read the original post and the subject line of the thread is singular. I would list every player in your post above Ty, not there's anything wrong with that. But I guess the #100 song in WABC's top 100 of 1971 was one of the best songs of the year as well.
I never saw him play at SJU but the best big man along with Berry would be Bob Zawoluk. Freshmen being ineligible back in the late forties, Zawoluk scored over eighteen hundred points and led SJU to a 75 - 16 won loss record during his three years.
He made many all American teams and led SJU to the NCAA final as a senior. Other than Zeke and Berry it seems many years of big men mediocrity for a team with a tradition like SJU.
He made many all American teams and led SJU to the NCAA final as a senior. Other than Zeke and Berry it seems many years of big men mediocrity for a team with a tradition like SJU.
beast of the east
Active member
The problem i have with berry is that he played more like a small forward or big guard who could drive with a hundtred moves, reverse spin, spin , twist and akways seemed to get off a good shot. Never thought of him as a traditional big man, but as a wing who was impossible to stop with the ball in his hands
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Austour Wrote: PS the internet is wonderful. The #100 song of that year was Sweet City Woman by the Stampeders. The #1 song was Joy to the World by 3 Dog Night.
The Stampeders were a Canadian band out of Calgary. They adopted the name the Stampeders after the Calgary football team of the same name. They were previously called The Rebounds (highly appropriate for a website that discusses basketball). Sweet City Woman was their only hit song that I am aware of.
The Stampeders were a Canadian band out of Calgary. They adopted the name the Stampeders after the Calgary football team of the same name. They were previously called The Rebounds (highly appropriate for a website that discusses basketball). Sweet City Woman was their only hit song that I am aware of.
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Along with Zawoluk and Berry I should have included Mel Davis but I considered Dove more of a small forward than a big man because of his weight and his offensive game was moving to get open for short jumpers, not playing with his back to the basket. I was thinking players who could guard centers.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Had Roshown Mcleod not transferred to Duke after 2 seasons at St. John's, he would have made the list. Really blossomed at Duke as a scorer, and was a first round draft pick.
Some great ones...George Johnson, Walter Berry, Sonny Dove who played center out of position. Best true center was Billy Paultz. We beat number two North Carolina at MSG...lost to Number one UCLA...before going down to number two Davidson where we beat them. That's with Paultz at center. Finished season at number seven. I'm a results guy. The following year, Looie hid Paultz behind Dan Cornelius so he could take him to the Nets without losing him in the draft.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="newsman13" post=385232]Some great ones...George Johnson, Walter Berry, Sonny Dove who played center out of position. Best true center was Billy Paultz. We beat number two North Carolina at MSG...lost to Number one UCLA...before going down to number two Davidson where we beat them. That's with Paultz at center. Finished season at number seven. I'm a results guy. The following year, Looie hid Paultz behind Dan Cornelius so he could take him to the Nets without losing him in the draft.[/quote]
Newsman, do you think Paultz was better in college than Wennington. I always thought Paultz was a late bloomer who was a better pro than collegiate. Paultz had a productive 15 year career, about 11 with significant minutes or starter minutes.
Newsman, do you think Paultz was better in college than Wennington. I always thought Paultz was a late bloomer who was a better pro than collegiate. Paultz had a productive 15 year career, about 11 with significant minutes or starter minutes.
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I didn't have a chance to read the entire thread but for what it's worth. (I have only been following the team for about 40 years). It's hard to define a big man at times today as the game has changed. Here are my top 6. I am not locked into where a few of these should rank.
Jayson Williams
Bill Wennington
Shawnelle Scott
Shelton Jones
Zendon Hamilton
Robert Werdann
Jayson Williams
Bill Wennington
Shawnelle Scott
Shelton Jones
Zendon Hamilton
Robert Werdann
beast of the east
Active member
Jeff Allen isn't in the top group but was a competent center for us.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=385234][quote="newsman13" post=385232]Some great ones...George Johnson, Walter Berry, Sonny Dove who played center out of position. Best true center was Billy Paultz. We beat number two North Carolina at MSG...lost to Number one UCLA...before going down to number two Davidson where we beat them. That's with Paultz at center. Finished season at number seven. I'm a results guy. The following year, Looie hid Paultz behind Dan Cornelius so he could take him to the Nets without losing him in the draft.[/quote]
Newsman, do you think Paultz was better in college than Wennington. I always thought Paultz was a late bloomer who was a better pro than collegiate. Paultz had a productive 15 year career, about 11 with significant minutes or starter minutes.[/quote]
Paultz only played two years at SJU.
Newsman, do you think Paultz was better in college than Wennington. I always thought Paultz was a late bloomer who was a better pro than collegiate. Paultz had a productive 15 year career, about 11 with significant minutes or starter minutes.[/quote]
Paultz only played two years at SJU.
The two best Big men I saw were Leroy Ellis and Sonny Dove. Both of them had very good careers at St. Johns.
I am biased but I also think that Lamont Hamilton had a nice career. If Showtime did not hurt his knee during their junior year, I believe that team would have done well. Because the team did not win, hiscareer here has been overlooked.
I am biased but I also think that Lamont Hamilton had a nice career. If Showtime did not hurt his knee during their junior year, I believe that team would have done well. Because the team did not win, hiscareer here has been overlooked.
I like Grant and Scott as seniors in this discussion. I thought they were very effective and poised. Perhaps I am biased re: Jayson Williams because we were at school the same time. Between and after classes I would go to Alumni Hall and workout. For a few years invariably it seemed like no matter what time of day it was, Billy Singleton was in the gym practicing. Jayson was there a lot too but was always in the bleachers surrounded by a bunch of girls being "holding court" so to speak. On the actual court I liked a lot of his game but I thought he relied a little too much on finesse when he had opportunities to give a hard finish and this coupled with always seeming to come up on the short end vs Derek Coleman left me disappointed.
Robert Werdann was my age and at 6’2 I envisioned that if I was 6’10/6’11 I would have his game. Not likely but that is what I thought. He had a lot of skill but it just never clicked at the level you would have hoped from a McDonald’s All American. Would see him at some bars when we were “21”. Nice guy. Hope he is doing well.
[quote="newsman13" post=385232]Some great ones...George Johnson, Walter Berry, Sonny Dove who played center out of position. Best true center was Billy Paultz. We beat number two North Carolina at MSG...lost to Number one UCLA...before going down to number two Davidson where we beat them. That's with Paultz at center. Finished season at number seven. I'm a results guy. The following year, Looie hid Paultz behind Dan Cornelius so he could take him to the Nets without losing him in the draft.[/quote]
No love for George Johnson? I'd take him as a better true center than the Whopper, not so much on size but George was a much better defender and rebounder.
No love for George Johnson? I'd take him as a better true center than the Whopper, not so much on size but George was a much better defender and rebounder.
