Best SJU big man you've seen

S

Section9

Well-known member
Let's try to keep this to guys that were known for their ability to score inside and rebound so it's centers and power forwards who weren't afraid to get into the trenches.

My top three would be:

The Truth, probably the most versatile big we've ever had as he could hit the mid range jumper, take his man off the dribble and post up. Hid defense wasn't the greatest but that block against Pearl in the BE finals was enough.

Mel "Killer" Davis, at 6'7" he was an undersized PF but man was he tenacious around the basket, the best rebounder I have ever seen in an SJU uni. Plus he could score the ball in many different ways.

George Johnson, at 6'9" he wasn't tall for a true center but George was a double double machine game in game out, plus he was a solid defender. He wasn't spectacular but he just got the job done.

Honorable mention goes to The Whopper and Bill Wennington.

The best "big" team was '70-'71 under Mulzoff: Billy Phillips 7'1", Greg Cluess. 6'9", Tony Prince 6'9", Killer 6'7" and Billy Schaefffer 6'6". Davis, Schaeff, Cluess, and Phillips were the top four scorers that year.
 
Leroy Ellis & Sonny Dove have to be on any all big men team. Ellis averaged 24 ppg and 17rpg as a senior, pretty incredible stats and Dove was a great three year player for us.
 
1. Jayson Williams
2. Zendon Hamilton
3. Anthony Glover (if he counts as a "big")
4. Shawnelle Scott
5. Robert Werdann

Honorable mention:
Lamont Hamilton
 
Robert Werdann was a highly skilled big man. Could score inside with either hand, shoot fouls reasonably well, and had a nice touch 15 feet and in. Rebounded well and passed well and decent defender. He was everything but dominant.
 
Not mentioned yet, but Lamont Hamilton was pretty good as well. We definitely don’t have an illustrious history with big men at SJU though.
 
Starting from 73-74 season so no disrespect to those who played before and considering those who were in the "5"; ergo, consider The Truth a "4". I would include George Johnson and Wayne McCoy to go along with Zendon Hamilton, Shawnelle Scott, Lamont Hamilton and Bob Werdann. The 21st Century seems to be MIA.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=385072]Leroy Ellis & Sonny Dove have to be on any all big men team. Ellis averaged 24 ppg and 17rpg as a senior, pretty incredible stats and Dove was a great three year player for us.[/quote]

Aah, how could I have forgotten Sonny:eek:hmy:? Leroy was just before my time. Now the question is who do I leave off my list of three? Can't do it, so now it's a list of four. Also, props to those who mentioned Zendon. As far as Werdan is concerned he'd be in the top seven as well.
 
[quote="Section9" post=385071]Let's try to keep this to guys that were known for their ability to score inside and rebound so it's centers and power forwards who weren't afraid to get into the trenches.

My top three would be:

The Truth, probably the most versatile big we've ever had as he could hit the mid range jumper, take his man off the dribble and post up. Hid defense wasn't the greatest but that block against Pearl in the BE finals was enough.

Mel "Killer" Davis, at 6'7" he was an undersized PF but man was he tenacious around the basket, the best rebounder I have ever seen in an SJU uni. Plus he could score the ball in many different ways.

George Johnson, at 6'9" he wasn't tall for a true center but George was a double double machine game in game out, plus he was a solid defender. He wasn't spectacular but he just got the job done.

Honorable mention goes to The Whopper and Bill Wennington.

The best "big" team was '70-'71 under Mulzoff: Billy Phillips 7'1", Greg Cluess. 6'9", Tony Prince 6'9", Killer 6'7" and Billy Schaefffer 6'6". Davis, Schaeff, Cluess, and Phillips were the top four scorers that year.[/quote]

The 1971-1972 team was even more stacked, as Ed Searcy became eligible part way into the season. I don't think Davis was undersized as a PF back then. He didn't rebound the ball as much as he assaulted it when coming off the rim. The team just didn't have scorers or shooters in the backcourt on the 70 and 71 teams. That team should have ended far better than 18-9. The 1972-1973 team, now missing Davis. Phillips and Greg Cluess, was a much better team. The difference was that Frank Alagia and Mel Utley. were both very good, giving St. John's much better guard play. If only Davis stayed around for his senior season.
 
Of the guys I've seen, Ty Grant has a legitimate argument as the most effective as a big but Berry would be the guy. Werdann I thought was going to be really effective, not flashy player for us but he was hampered with injuries and never seemed to be 100% Shawnelle Scott senior year was very effective and outplayed the G'town glamour squad. I also agree about Glover. Even though he was about 6'4 he outplayed much bigger guys including the Yukon 7' bubble gum and hair gel kid who was a 1st rounder. Jayson W in there too but he was playing at a time where the league was full of dominant bigs and he had not become the dominant physical specimen he evolved into in the NBA.

Before my time but probably the best big we've ever had aside from Berry.

[URL]https://redmen.com/database-1/player/2604-robertzawoluk.html[/URL]
and NYT:
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/sports/ncaabasketball/18zawoluk.html[/URL]
 
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[quote="Paul Massell" post=385088]Of the guys I've seen, Ty Grant has a legitimate argument as the most effective as a big but Berry would be the guy. Werdann I thought was going to be really effective, not flashy player for us but he was hampered with injuries and never seemed to be 100% Shawnelle Scott senior year was very effective and outplayed the G'town glamour squad. I also agree about Glover. Even though he was about 6'4 he outplayed much bigger guys including the Yukon 7' bubble gum and hair gel kid who was a 1st rounder. Jayson W in there too but he was playing at a time where the league was full of dominant bigs and he had not become the dominant physical specimen he evolved into in the NBA.

Before my time but probably the best big we've ever had aside from Berry.

[URL]https://redmen.com/database-1/player/2604-robertzawoluk.html[/URL]
and NYT:
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/sports/ncaabasketball/18zawoluk.html[/URL][/quote]

Oddly enough, ty grant only averaged 7.3pts and 6.6 rebs for his career which isn’t amazing as far as numbers go. I wonder how all these guys compare stats-wise because often our memories of these guys is better than their real world production. Look at a guy like Champagnie who as a freshman (albeit not a big), has averaged 9.9 and 6.5 and it puts into perspective not only how good he is but the overall numbers in comparison.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=385092][quote="Paul Massell" post=385088]Of the guys I've seen, Ty Grant has a legitimate argument as the most effective as a big but Berry would be the guy. Werdann I thought was going to be really effective, not flashy player for us but he was hampered with injuries and never seemed to be 100% Shawnelle Scott senior year was very effective and outplayed the G'town glamour squad. I also agree about Glover. Even though he was about 6'4 he outplayed much bigger guys including the Yukon 7' bubble gum and hair gel kid who was a 1st rounder. Jayson W in there too but he was playing at a time where the league was full of dominant bigs and he had not become the dominant physical specimen he evolved into in the NBA.

Before my time but probably the best big we've ever had aside from Berry.

[URL]https://redmen.com/database-1/player/2604-robertzawoluk.html[/URL]
and NYT:
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/sports/ncaabasketball/18zawoluk.html[/URL][/quote]

Oddly enough, ty grant only averaged 7.3pts and 6.6 rebs for his career which isn’t amazing as far as numbers go. I wonder how all these guys compare stats-wise because often our memories of these guys is better than their real world production. Look at a guy like Champagnie who as a freshman (albeit not a big), has averaged 9.9 and 6.5 and it puts into perspective not only how good he is but the overall numbers in comparison.[/quote]

I get your point, but you can't really compare numbers pre shot clock and post shot clock.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=385092][quote="Paul Massell" post=385088]Of the guys I've seen, Ty Grant has a legitimate argument as the most effective as a big but Berry would be the guy. [/quote]

Oddly enough, ty grant only averaged 7.3pts and 6.6 rebs for his career which isn’t amazing as far as numbers go. I wonder how all these guys compare stats-wise because often our memories of these guys is better than their real world production. Look at a guy like Champagnie who as a freshman (albeit not a big), has averaged 9.9 and 6.5 and it puts into perspective not only how good he is but the overall numbers in comparison.[/quote]

I knew that and I was going by the OP that specified guys who "weren't afraid to get into the trenches." Obviously Jayson Williams stats are way better than Grant but on those terms and as a player for St. John's (certainly in the NBA he became a beast) he was not as effective as Grant in my opinion. Stats are important but as a big man you are a presence. Can your teammates rely upon you to catch the ball? Can you get position on opposing bigs on both ends of the court. Things like that. At around 6'7 Grant was very strong and couldn't be bodied on either end. Pretty much money under the basket. He was undervalued and underused by his first coach but became much more effective when he got used.

I really like Champagnie and overall he will probably be a better basketball player than Grant, but he is not a dominating physical presence who will impose his will inside. He's a multi-dimensional player with inside/out skills.
 
Unless Toro is such a force that a smaller guy is left on Champagnie for his soph year and by the time Toro is gone he is filled out in to a beast.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=385072]Leroy Ellis & Sonny Dove have to be on any all big men team. Ellis averaged 24 ppg and 17rpg as a senior, pretty incredible stats and Dove was a great three year player for us.[/quote]

Hands down

1. Leroy Ellis
2. Sonny Dove

Everybody else can fight for #3 and beyond

PS: I didn't see any love for The Whopper - he deserves some as well
 
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For the period they played and very earl years, I remember ,
1] Le Roy Ellis
2} Bob Zawolk
and before my time Harry Boykoff
 
I saw most of George Johnson's games. He was a beast in every way. Kent Benson was supposedly the top center in the country for an undefeated Indiana team, and when we played them in the Holiday festival, George absolutely took Benson to school and had him on the bench with 3 quick fouls in the opening 10 minutes of the game.
 
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