Becoming a good program

I'm really not sure with our budget we could replace Lavin with someone who would do a better job. It is what it is. NYC is no longer a preferred destination for kids like it used to be and kids don't have the same desire to stay home. There is no more original Big East allure. Our on campus home court is a joke (my fiance when brought there for the first time thought it was a high school gym, and vowed to never return because of how uncomfortable it is sitting in there). We don't have a loyal NYC fan base like some of the school we added to the Big East have. We've been long ago surpassed by many programs who've done what was needed to elevate their program and we fell behind. We're going to have to be happy with what we've got and hope it works out.
 
He won't be fired, because there's no one out there this school would hire who could do a better job.

It is what it is.

It's by no means time to start looking for a replacement. But I don't accept the premise that we're stuck with Lavin because we'll never find anyone who can do a better job. A big name isn't necessarily required. This isn't a decision where Roberts or Lavin are the only possibilities. There are other coaches who could get a few top 100 players to come here. Would they get as many as Lavin? I don't know. But he's not the only person in America who can recruit and talk articulately.
 
I'm really not sure with our budget we could replace Lavin with someone who would do a better job. It is what it is. NYC is no longer a preferred destination for kids like it used to be and kids don't have the same desire to stay home. There is no more original Big East allure. Our on campus home court is a joke (my fiance when brought there for the first time thought it was a high school gym, and vowed to never return because of how uncomfortable it is sitting in there). We don't have a loyal NYC fan base like some of the school we added to the Big East have. We've been long ago surpassed by many programs who've done what was needed to elevate their program and we fell behind. We're going to have to be happy with what we've got and hope it works out.

Carnesseca is the 4 seasons when compared to Gtown and Seton Hall on campus facilities and on par with Nova IMO. Also Providence has no on campus facility.
 
This is a great thread. Thanks for starting it. I think the program overall is in great shape and clearly going in the right direction. However, it's the quality of play game to game that frustrates me. This team finally has some size upfront and the players can't box out. Our defensive rebounding is terrible. The guards continually let guys go by them. We rely on shot blocking and running. Offensively I see little continuity. Work the ball slowly around the perimeter and somebody makes a one on one move. The team's preparation have been lacking to say the least. Inserting Gift into the starting lineup is not the right move. Phil Greene is an effective spot shooter, but as soon as he puts in on the floor to facilitate bad things happen. Jordan has to play more minutes. The offense has to be designed to get players like Harrison more shots, and opportunities for Sampson and Pointer closer to the hoop. We did not make Xavier work at all on defense. Raftery said during the game - when Sanchez got the ball near the foul line on one play, "turn and make yourself a threat." I want to see a team, win or lose, that when you go against them you know you've been in a game.

I know I am being negative as all he.. but you say "I think the program overall is in great shape and clearly going in the right direction." Then you proceed to list basic basketball fundamental problems with the team. It can't be both.
 
I'm really not sure with our budget we could replace Lavin with someone who would do a better job. It is what it is. NYC is no longer a preferred destination for kids like it used to be and kids don't have the same desire to stay home. There is no more original Big East allure. Our on campus home court is a joke (my fiance when brought there for the first time thought it was a high school gym, and vowed to never return because of how uncomfortable it is sitting in there). We don't have a loyal NYC fan base like some of the school we added to the Big East have. We've been long ago surpassed by many programs who've done what was needed to elevate their program and we fell behind. We're going to have to be happy with what we've got and hope it works out.

We have a big Fox tv contract, we can afford to offer another coach $1mil plus. That's competitive. I'm not delusional - we're not getting Josh Pastner to leave Memphis or bring in Shaka Smart. But Andy Enfield, from FFCU before he went to USC? Orlando Antigua for his first HC job? These are not out of the question.

But again, it's not time to discuss that. It's just a defeatist premise that too many around here accept. The money is there, and the choices are more than Lavin or return to Norm.
 
I'm really not sure with our budget we could replace Lavin with someone who would do a better job. It is what it is. NYC is no longer a preferred destination for kids like it used to be and kids don't have the same desire to stay home. There is no more original Big East allure. Our on campus home court is a joke (my fiance when brought there for the first time thought it was a high school gym, and vowed to never return because of how uncomfortable it is sitting in there). We don't have a loyal NYC fan base like some of the school we added to the Big East have. We've been long ago surpassed by many programs who've done what was needed to elevate their program and we fell behind. We're going to have to be happy with what we've got and hope it works out.

Carnesseca is the 4 seasons when compared to Gtown and Seton Hall on campus facilities and on par with Nova IMO. Also Providence has no on campus facility.

And how much are Georgetown and Nova paying their coaches? They have two of the top coaches you'd have to say based on record of success. Seton Hall and Providence have been irrelevant programs on the major scale for a long time now, so we shouldn't compare ourselves to them.
 
As usual a reasonable post, but how much time?

If he gets less years than Norm, my love for this program may decrease dramatically.

If Norm got 6 years, no conversation about Lavin's tenure should begin before the 6th year. I dont know who people think we are but we are not Kentucky, we are not Duke, and we are certainly not UCLA. Things are getting better but you can't expect to be a National champ in 4 years when he started literally with NOTHING!. We have come a long way from the Jarvis and Norm eras and that speaks volumes about Lavin and the program.

With the amount of talent (both players and coaches) and positive attention that Lavin has brought to SJU not to mention the clearly improving winning record we are becoming a good program and we will be a consistently good and well regarded program during Lavin's tenure.

So with all due respect... QUIT YOUR WHINING!

I don't tell you to stop cheerleading so don't tell those you disagree with what or when to post. Skip the posts of people you disagree with, you know who they are. I have replied to people who think we are heading in the right direction asking why they think that way, not that they are wrong or that they should stop posting what they see. Me, I have played annd coached basketball for 50 years and I see a very mediocre product on the floor for the people we recruited and the pedigree of our coaches and will continue to post as such until Paul tells me to stop or the mods kick me off.........with all due respect.
 
There are some ominous signs for sure, but I agree with Marillac that it's still too early to give Lavin a grade. He's positioned us so that at worst - we're a competitive NIT team. All things considered, we've seen a lot worse. That doesn't mean I'm pleased. I think he's done a piss poor job preparing this team so far this season. There is simply no continuity or identity on offense; no reliable play; and no method to the madness late in the game. And, the defense is equally astray most of the time, but our athleticism in-part makes up for it. Nevertheless, I don't think it requires a genius to coach basketball, and I think at the end of the day coach knows enough to change course when something isn't working. For that reason alone, I remain hopeful that he'll find a winning formula at some point this year.


What I will say, however, is that Monasch gets off with way too easy around here. People are critical of coach, including myself, but at the end of the day coach reports to the AD. We can't call Lavin in to the office and say the offense looks lost, what's going to change the second half of the season? We didn't meet with the staff in the offseason and hear them layout what they were preparing to run this season and why. And we can't force coach to make changes to his staff; Monasch can.
At the end of the day all the things we complain about after bad losses are questions that the AD is not only allowed to ask his head coach, but in many cases it's actually his job to question decisions that don't work out. I don't get the sense that that is happening at all.
And while I like that coach doesn't berate his players and keeps a positive attitude, it would be refreshing after a loss to sometimes hear coach say "That was a very disappointing performance, we can and we must play better. The way we played is unacceptable, and I expect to see better practices this week".
I don't get the sense that there is accountability. And that needs to start at the top of the Athletic Department.

Monasch is passive, ineffective AD, biding his time. As someone on this Board astutely pointed out to me recently, perhaps a big part of getting program to a consistent level is a strong President who holds everyone accountable. For now I remain hopeful Lavin can achieve his targeted objective, dancing.
 
I'm really not sure with our budget we could replace Lavin with someone who would do a better job. It is what it is. NYC is no longer a preferred destination for kids like it used to be and kids don't have the same desire to stay home. There is no more original Big East allure. Our on campus home court is a joke (my fiance when brought there for the first time thought it was a high school gym, and vowed to never return because of how uncomfortable it is sitting in there). We don't have a loyal NYC fan base like some of the school we added to the Big East have. We've been long ago surpassed by many programs who've done what was needed to elevate their program and we fell behind. We're going to have to be happy with what we've got and hope it works out.

Carnesseca is the 4 seasons when compared to Gtown and Seton Hall on campus facilities and on par with Nova IMO. Also Providence has no on campus facility.

And how much are Georgetown and Nova paying their coaches? They have two of the top coaches you'd have to say based on record of success. Seton Hall and Providence have been irrelevant programs on the major scale for a long time now, so we shouldn't compare ourselves to them.

I was just comparing facilities based on your trip to Carnesseca Arena. With regards to programs we paid coaches crap for so long we can afford to pay another Lavin type $. Add in a little extra from Fox. Could go so many directions. I know certain posters will pop up when the thought is entertained but might have to go NY direction with someone who grew up pulling for SJU and really has a dog in the fight wanting to return them to prominence.
 
I'm really not sure with our budget we could replace Lavin with someone who would do a better job. It is what it is. NYC is no longer a preferred destination for kids like it used to be and kids don't have the same desire to stay home. There is no more original Big East allure. Our on campus home court is a joke (my fiance when brought there for the first time thought it was a high school gym, and vowed to never return because of how uncomfortable it is sitting in there). We don't have a loyal NYC fan base like some of the school we added to the Big East have. We've been long ago surpassed by many programs who've done what was needed to elevate their program and we fell behind. We're going to have to be happy with what we've got and hope it works out.

Carnesseca is the 4 seasons when compared to Gtown and Seton Hall on campus facilities and on par with Nova IMO. Also Providence has no on campus facility.

You are comparing a person that can see out of one eye to a blind person. Ofcourse there are shittier places than Carnesseca but that doesn't make Carnesseca more appealing or less of a 1950's dump. They should demolish it and build something from scratch. The renovation was nothing but a waste of money.
 
As usual a reasonable post, but how much time?

If he gets less years than Norm, my love for this program may decrease dramatically.

Only problem is Norm got 2 years too many

FH GOT 15 too many..

FH is still a part of the board of directors as President-Emeritus. Nothing happened there but a game of musical chairs between JL and FH to make the alumni happy. JL was on the board and is now interim-president, FH was president and is now on the board.
 
Where is Mike Dunlap? I would love to see him there on the bench. I think we are "trending in the right direction" to borrow a phrase from another Irish coach (Rex Ryan). Lavin really is on his 3rd year. 1 NCAA tourney appearance. 1 year NIT appearance. and this year is still up for grabs. I am not going to blindly defend the guy, but we are loaded with talent. He's got that juice that you need to cut it in NYC. Along with Jay wright and JT3 he's the face of the league.

As pissed off as I was with our reliance on the jumpshot (coaching) our hockey line subs (coaching) our poor team d (coaching), I still think 4 years ago we made the right hire. He's the reason these kids want to play here. It would make sense for us to bring in a tactician to help with his deficiencies. One that he would actuallly listen to anyway. I have no Idea what Whitesell's impact is on the program. I'm not even going to get into Gene Keady.

We just have to stay true to our basketball identity and maintain some consistency. We can be top 3 Conference team Year in and out and dancing every year. We are not to far from that point. Never thought we would get there with Roberts but he did run a squeaky clean program and help repair our image from the Jarvis fiasco.
 
I'm really not sure with our budget we could replace Lavin with someone who would do a better job. It is what it is. NYC is no longer a preferred destination for kids like it used to be and kids don't have the same desire to stay home. There is no more original Big East allure. Our on campus home court is a joke (my fiance when brought there for the first time thought it was a high school gym, and vowed to never return because of how uncomfortable it is sitting in there). We don't have a loyal NYC fan base like some of the school we added to the Big East have. We've been long ago surpassed by many programs who've done what was needed to elevate their program and we fell behind. We're going to have to be happy with what we've got and hope it works out.

Carnesseca is the 4 seasons when compared to Gtown and Seton Hall on campus facilities and on par with Nova IMO. Also Providence has no on campus facility.

You are comparing a person that can see out of one eye to a blind person. Ofcourse there are shittier places than Carnesseca but that doesn't make Carnesseca more appealing or less of a 1950's dump. They should demolish it and build something from scratch. The renovation was nothing but a waste of money.

It's a fair point but I think Moose's argument was that other schools have had success with equally as poor on campus facilities.
 
He won't be fired, because there's no one out there this school would hire who could do a better job.

It is what it is.

It's by no means time to start looking for a replacement. But I don't accept the premise that we're stuck with Lavin because we'll never find anyone who can do a better job. A big name isn't necessarily required. This isn't a decision where Roberts or Lavin are the only possibilities. There are other coaches who could get a few top 100 players to come here. Would they get as many as Lavin? I don't know. But he's not the only person in America who can recruit and talk articulately.

There are always replacements. One of my siblings and best friends' like to say such thing when we're talking about replacing coaches (not St. John's, but just in general).

They both like to say, "Who is out there?" My reply is 'there is always somebody out there.' We're generally talking about replacing of football coaches. I tell them, you have solid guys who are assistant coaches (in the professional and collegiate ranks) or up-and-coming head coaches at smaller schools (in the collegiate ranks). Like yourself, I told him that a big name isn't a requirement when it comes to replacing coaches.

You shouldn't settle because you feel you can't do any better. In our case, I'm willing to see this play out.
 
He won't be fired, because there's no one out there this school would hire who could do a better job.

It is what it is.

It's by no means time to start looking for a replacement. But I don't accept the premise that we're stuck with Lavin because we'll never find anyone who can do a better job. A big name isn't necessarily required. This isn't a decision where Roberts or Lavin are the only possibilities. There are other coaches who could get a few top 100 players to come here. Would they get as many as Lavin? I don't know. But he's not the only person in America who can recruit and talk articulately.

There are always replacements. One of my siblings and best friends' like to say such thing when we're talking about replacing coaches (not St. John's, but just in general).

They both like to say, "Who is out there?" My reply is 'there is always somebody out there.' We're generally talking about replacing of football coaches. I tell them, you have solid guys who are assistant coaches (in the professional and collegiate ranks) or up-and-coming head coaches at smaller schools (in the collegiate ranks). Like yourself, I told him that a big name isn't a requirement when it comes to replacing coaches.

You shouldn't settle because you feel you can't do any better. In our case, I'm willing to see this play out.

I agree entirely. Lavin certainly deserves more time to prove himself. But, in general, our fans need to get over this idea that it's Lavin or back to the Norm days.
 
quote]

Monasch is passive, ineffective AD, biding his time. As someone on this Board astutely pointed out to me recently, perhaps a big part of getting program to a consistent level is a strong President who holds everyone accountable. For now I remain hopeful Lavin can achieve his targeted objective, dancing.[/quote]

I agree. Is there any shot at replacing him? Also I know JL was at Niagra before, But what are your thoughts on him? i dont know much about him.
 
quote]

Monasch is passive, ineffective AD, biding his time. As someone on this Board astutely pointed out to me recently, perhaps a big part of getting program to a consistent level is a strong President who holds everyone accountable. For now I remain hopeful Lavin can achieve his targeted objective, dancing.

I agree. Is there any shot at replacing him? Also I know JL was at Niagra before, But what are your thoughts on him? i dont know much about him.[/quote]

The President is interim. He's just holding the fort. Nothing big time decision wise will get done why he's here during this school year.
 
The tone of the board since the Xavier loss has turned extremely negative.

Status quo.... That's after every loss. Heck! It's also after some wins.

Wash, rinse, and repeat for some on here.

There are definitely some that are overreacting to the Xavier loss. On the flip side, when things are legitimately going poorly there are also those who have their head stuck in the optimistic sand box. I'm sure both of those extremes exist on almost every fan board.

Reading through most of the comments made in various threads the last few days, however, most of the concern being expressed seems measured and reasonable to me. Few are declaring the season over (or anything close to it), but while acknowledging the time and opportunity still left for this team, people also see basic, fundamental flaws that aren't being corrected or even improved upon that may be an impediment to where we want to go this year. It doesn't mean those things won't be improved or corrected, but I think some are some are starting to wonder whether they will be, especially in light of the fact that they haven't been improved or corrected after 20 games the last 5 months. I don't think that's an unreasonable position at the halfway point of a season where there are justifiable expectations.
 
I think an X's and O's guy is a must. I remember Coach Carnesecca had John Kresse do much of that work. No coach can do everything well. I too am frustrated that we don't have guys that can box out and dominate in the paint consistently. We seem to play well different facets from game to game. Some games the D is great, others not so. Not a consistent result or effort. Our team needs to ripen more quickly. Might help if the attendance picks up too.
Hopefully, we can see Sanchez use his size more inside.

Agree'd. Losing Dunlap I think was the worst thing that could have happened. My question is - What is Keady doing in all of this? Is he just on the bench to lend star power? The guy is a HoF coach right? Is he saying nothing about the substitution patterns, etc.?

Keady may lend some ideas during the coaches down time, but he isn't allowed to have any input during games.

can he comment to the coaches during half time??
 
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