Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[boo haarvey]

We all agree the University is playing from behind in many regards financially.. if so, how can we continue to have an AD & coach, both who came from big, winning programs, speak about Final Fours and Big East championships so freely.   It just sets up for failure and a fan base who has an increasingly hard time buying into the vision put out publicly.

University needs to place some big time bets and pump in the needed $ to allow staff to legitimately recruit top talent or stop pretending its 1985 and touting that NYC is the mecca.

I believe part of the problem is the school is so conservative and inward looking that while they recognize what's happening around them and how fast things are moving they don't attempt to move faster.  Can't just play with intent to catch up as you never will You have to play with the intent to leapfrog.

Anderson seems and by all accounts,, a great leader, motivator and man..My two issues with Anderson are his recruiting and his game calling..  if he can't get those right, he'll never win big here.





 

In all honesty RSNC, when I hear that kind of talk about winning championships while we're still floundering as a program, and have shown no significant sign of being headed in the right direction,  it not only insults my intelligence, but it sounds like complete BS to me. Someone ought to tell the school that you don't sell more tickets with talk, you sell more tickets with results. Did Cragg actually attend Duke? That might explain his thinking. Dookies almost always think that they're the smartest guy in the room. 

Honestly, if you believe we are floundering under CMA, that's your prerogative.   I've communicated where Cragg and CMA want to be - I find that a lot more admirable that NR accepting razor thin wins vs lousy mid major teams and calling those great.   Would you hire someone who wanted your company to be less than the very best?   If you would, then that would say as much about you than that person.   Neither CMA or MC believe we are championship caliber right now, but neither bitch and moan or make excuses after tough losses.   We all remember coaches who would drone on endlessly about why we lost games - in Charlotte I asked Lavin if Harrison's shoulder injury was still serious enough to cause concern and he went on for five minutes about how good we'd be if Sampson and Harkless stayed. 

I know you have been miserable and are venting, but it's absolutely ridiculous to say there are no significant signs of the program heading in the right direction under CMA, when in his 1st season a team that was expected to be horrible ended the season as a very tough out, and last year's 4th place team was above expectations and earned him BE coach of the year.    

We have to recruit better, much better in my opinion, but after years of questioning why guys come here and never improve after year one, we have a coaching staff who by all means show that they can coach up players.   That will only get you so far of course.   

Presuming then that no 5 star player is going to join our roster over the next 3 months, the best expectation based on what CMA has done so far, is that guys will earn playing time with the same tough defense we've seen the first two seasons.   

In the meantime you can also choose to swoon over mid major players who left here and are excelling at a lower level of competition.   IMO those guys are program builders who will never get you where you want to be,but help attract better talent who will get you there.   

As others have pointed out, we aren't a pro franchise that has hundreds of millions to invest in winning and fans rightfully can stay home until they do win.   Our investors are our alumni and our ticket buying fans, and nothing you say will produce a winner without those investors.    

Cragg is doing his part.  He is the first AD to address the dreadful facilities that we have here.   We just lost to Pitt.  My cousin's kid just turned down an athletic scholarship there but came back raving how their facilities are like a professional franchise compared to other schools that offered him.   What do you think basketball recruits think when visiting  Pitt and SJU?

Pitt loses their best player, and we lost the twin to that best player, and we played a two point game.   

We've lost exactly 1 game by a margin of greater than 2 points, and if we scored on our last possession in one of those, we win.   

If you don't think a CMA team can improve end to end by 2 points per game, then I think you may be rooting for losses. 

Beast, I respect your thoughts, but the last  two paragraphs of your post contains a lot of spin.  You neglect to concede that we haven’t beaten anybody good  the whole year and that we’ve struggled against a number of poor teams.

Having watched every game this year, nothing leads me to believe that our performance against a very bad Pitt team was an aberration.  We have a number of significant flaws (rebounding, turnovers, defensive lapses) that will likely only be further exposed as the level of competition increases.  

To suggest that these flaws will be resolved by merely picking up an additional two points per game strikes me as flawed logic.  We will need to improve our play by far more than two points per game if we expect to win double digit games in conference play, a prerequisite for making the tourney.

Also, you’ve set up a straw man when you suggest that since both Pitt snd Sju were missing their star players from last year (the Champagnie twins), we shouldn’t be upset by our recent loss.   The fact of the matter is Pitt is a terrible team who had a power rating in the 200s.  They are a program in turmoil and their coach will likely be fired at the end of the season.  No amount of spin makes that an acceptable loss, particularly when one factors  in how poorly we’ve performed for most of the non-conference season.

I think it’s certainly possible we’ll improve as the year goes on.  But the team hasn’t shown me anything to suggest that we are good enough to finish in the top half of the league, let alone that we will be able to make up a significant amount of ground necessary to dance.

 

 

[beast of the east]

We all agree the University is playing from behind in many regards financially.. if so, how can we continue to have an AD & coach, both who came from big, winning programs, speak about Final Fours and Big East championships so freely.   It just sets up for failure and a fan base who has an increasingly hard time buying into the vision put out publicly.

University needs to place some big time bets and pump in the needed $ to allow staff to legitimately recruit top talent or stop pretending its 1985 and touting that NYC is the mecca.

I believe part of the problem is the school is so conservative and inward looking that while they recognize what's happening around them and how fast things are moving they don't attempt to move faster.  Can't just play with intent to catch up as you never will You have to play with the intent to leapfrog.

Anderson seems and by all accounts,, a great leader, motivator and man..My two issues with Anderson are his recruiting and his game calling..  if he can't get those right, he'll never win big here.






 

In all honesty RSNC, when I hear that kind of talk about winning championships while we're still floundering as a program, and have shown no significant sign of being headed in the right direction,  it not only insults my intelligence, but it sounds like complete BS to me. Someone ought to tell the school that you don't sell more tickets with talk, you sell more tickets with results. Did Cragg actually attend Duke? That might explain his thinking. Dookies almost always think that they're the smartest guy in the room. 

Honestly, if you believe we are floundering under CMA, that's your prerogative.   I've communicated where Cragg and CMA want to be - I find that a lot more admirable that NR accepting razor thin wins vs lousy mid major teams and calling those great.   Would you hire someone who wanted your company to be less than the very best?   If you would, then that would say as much about you than that person.   Neither CMA or MC believe we are championship caliber right now, but neither bitch and moan or make excuses after tough losses.   We all remember coaches who would drone on endlessly about why we lost games - in Charlotte I asked Lavin if Harrison's shoulder injury was still serious enough to cause concern and he went on for five minutes about how good we'd be if Sampson and Harkless stayed. 

I know you have been miserable and are venting, but it's absolutely ridiculous to say there are no significant signs of the program heading in the right direction under CMA, when in his 1st season a team that was expected to be horrible ended the season as a very tough out, and last year's 4th place team was above expectations and earned him BE coach of the year.    

We have to recruit better, much better in my opinion, but after years of questioning why guys come here and never improve after year one, we have a coaching staff who by all means show that they can coach up players.   That will only get you so far of course.   

Presuming then that no 5 star player is going to join our roster over the next 3 months, the best expectation based on what CMA has done so far, is that guys will earn playing time with the same tough defense we've seen the first two seasons.   

In the meantime you can also choose to swoon over mid major players who left here and are excelling at a lower level of competition.   IMO those guys are program builders who will never get you where you want to be,but help attract better talent who will get you there.   

As others have pointed out, we aren't a pro franchise that has hundreds of millions to invest in winning and fans rightfully can stay home until they do win.   Our investors are our alumni and our ticket buying fans, and nothing you say will produce a winner without those investors.    

Cragg is doing his part.  He is the first AD to address the dreadful facilities that we have here.   We just lost to Pitt.  My cousin's kid just turned down an athletic scholarship there but came back raving how their facilities are like a professional franchise compared to other schools that offered him.   What do you think basketball recruits think when visiting  Pitt and SJU?

Pitt loses their best player, and we lost the twin to that best player, and we played a two point game.   

We've lost exactly 1 game by a margin of greater than 2 points, and if we scored on our last possession in one of those, we win.   

If you don't think a CMA team can improve end to end by 2 points per game, then I think you may be rooting for losses. 

Beast, I respect your thoughts, but the last  two paragraphs of your post contains a lot of spin.  You neglect to concede that we haven’t beaten anybody good  the whole year and that we’ve struggled against a number of poor teams.

Having watched every game this year, nothing leads me to believe that our performance against a very bad Pitt team was an aberration.  We have a number of significant flaws (rebounding, turnovers, defensive lapses) that will likely only be further exposed as the level of competition increases.  

To suggest that these flaws will be resolved by merely picking up an additional two points per game strikes me as flawed logic.  We will need to improve our play by far more than two points per game if we expect to win double digit games in conference play, a prerequisite for making the tourney.

Also, you’ve set up a straw man when you suggest that since both Pitt snd Sju were missing their star players from last year (the Champagnie twins), we shouldn’t be upset by our recent loss.   The fact of the matter is Pitt is a terrible team who had a power rating in the 200s.  They are a program in turmoil and their coach will likely be fired at the end of the season.  No amount of spin makes that an acceptable loss, particularly when one factors  in how poorly we’ve performed for most of the non-conference season.

I think it’s certainly possible we’ll improve as the year goes on.  But the team hasn’t shown me anything to suggest that we are good enough to finish in the top half of the league, let alone that we will be able to make up a significant amount of ground necessary to dance.


 

I think that the NJIT, Monmouth, and Colgate games were learning experiences against teams that are very well coached and who are capable of beating some good teams.   I do think that its much better to play close winning games against teams like this than a 15 point win that have zero important possessions.

Pitt is NOT a good team, and we aren't a good team without JC.   You can probably say that about a lot of good team when they play a game without their best player on less than 1 day's notice in December.    To me, there are enough factors in the Pitt loss to simply not think that we are as bad as Pitt.

 

[boo haarvey]

Beast, I agree that we’re a better team than Pitt with or without Champagnie.  But I understood your original premise to be that we’re not far off from where we want to be.  Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I fundamentally disagree with that premise.

There’s plenty of season left, but based on what I’ve seen, I think there is little reason for optimism.

 

[beast of the east]

Beast, I agree that we’re a better team than Pitt with or without Champagnie.  But I understood your original premise to be that we’re not far off from where we want to be.  Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I fundamentally disagree with that premise.

There’s plenty of season left, but based on what I’ve seen, I think there is little reason for optimism.

Sorry if I wasn't too clear.   We are pretty far from where we want to be.   A lot of things have to be improved for us to be competitive in conference.

1. Defense.   I don't agree with the premise that we don't have the athletes to play CMA's style of pressure defense.   Defense is all about effort, focus, footwork, and conditioning.  Also, defense is a team game - a single player failing to do his part and it all breaks down quickly.   In our system, defense is our offense and leads to a lot of transition baskets.   Our style of defense wears opponents down.  No one likes to play with a guy in his face for 94 feet, or even half court.    Our defense hasn't been good to this point, and the guys who can adapt and play better defense will get minutes, and those who can't will watch.

2.  Offense - Without Posh and Champ, you may as well pencil in bottom of the Big East.   Champ draws attention from all 5 defenders, and so long as he doesn't do what Ponds did in frustration, his teammates get a lot of better looks than wihtout him on the floor in a halfcourt offense.   That being said, almost all very good teams have more than 2 weapons.   I believe that Mathis can provide double digit points and be a positive factor so long as he is patient and lets the game come to him.   While Wusu is not yet a dominant scorer, he will steadily improve and could be that #3 guy.   I'm not convinced that Smith is not the answer for reliable outside shooting, and hopeful that he will find his place on offense (agree that his defense must improve).   Pinzon will improve end to end and provide valuable minute, as will Stanley.   I'm not convinced about Nyiwe and Soriano as Big conference players - they will have to do more, and Soriano in particular will have to use his imposing size and not rely so much on the baby hook   

It's very painful to watch a team that needs to put it all together to be competitive.   If this was a NR coached team, I'd have given up already,   But I have more faith in our staff in terms of development than some of you.   I do understand the concerns..   I grow a vegetable garden and every year it gets off to a slow start and I think it's going to be a disaster.   It heps to teach me to be patient, because so far it has always worked out fine.

 

[GardenCity62]

SJU has had two opportunities in recent years to upgrade their men’s basketball program by attracting better recruits and passed on both. Pitino in the last couple of years was too toxic and if what I read was true , Mike Repole would have made a major contribution to upgrade facilities making SJU comparable to other big east schools but he wanted too much control involving the program.
I suggest in two years down the line after two more seasons of no NCAA bids Father  Shanley calls Repole and offers him total control of the basketball program if he will contribute a boatload of money to upgrade the facilities. He can name the coach, seem the schedule and pick the uniforms with no interference from the twenty years of failure board of trustees.
Instead of hiring the hot shot young coach or the veteran coach out of a job let Repole pick his man.
Securing enough money from the SJU supporters to keep pace with the Vill and Conns is purely a dream. A drastic solution  but Repole has been a roaring success in the business world and the board of trustees have been a roaring failure in running the basketball program.

 

[Mug Costanza]

As evidenced on Saturday, we were one Julian decision to go pro this summer away from being the 10th or 11th place team in the Big East in Anderson's 3rd year. With an NCAA Tournament bid extremely unlikely at this point, I don't see how Anderson's ceiling is much higher going forward. Losing Julian after this season will be a crushing blow to a team that absolutely needs a go-to scorer like him in this freestyle offense. While guys like Posh, Wusu, Pinzon etc should continue to improve, I don't see how that will be enough to overcome the loss of Champagnie since none of them will be ready or talented enough offensively to take on that role. 

As for the Repole stuff, I'm not sure how true it is but if he's willing to donate a boatload of cash to the athletic department for more control over the program you absolutely have to accept that arrangement. If Anderson faceplants the rest of this season and next maybe we'll see them agree to something like that as they would likely need a cash infusion to cover Anderson's buyout.

 

[beast of the east]

Repole wanted Hurley as his coach.  If he ponied up the $10 million he was dangling he may have gotten his wish.  He thought $100K to upgrade men's and women's locker rooms would get him access to the decision.  Instead you guys would be clamoring for Hurley's head the way AZ State is. 

 

[Alumni Hall]

It requires a thought process that is foreign to too many posters, but there seems to be little acceptance of the plight every coach so far, and probably any future coach, faces at St. John's. There is so much competition for top level recruits, and far too many inherent factors in the university and basketball program that hinder our ability to compete. We all know what they are. There are positives, too, or at least we want to think so. So the real question is there an elite coach who would come here, especially knowing that they will be expected to run a clean program, and do so with lesser facilities and for less money than they had at their previous job. And if they accepted those terms, would they be able to recruit the level of talent needed to succeed at a very high level?  These are questions that very few of us want to even consider.


 

I think this is a fair point.  However, there are comparative programs having success.  Look no further than Seton Hall, which has lousy facilities.   I agree, the margin of error is slim, but it is possible. 
again, SHU on campus locker rooms, sports medicine, coaching offices are much better than ours. And there is no comparison to SHU’s team rooms and facilities (which are their own and don’t share with NBA or NHL) at the Prudential Center to ours. They took over the Nets complete area for their own and have even upgraded that. SJU still sleps all their stuff game by game to MSG, and they rotate between rooms there based on who is in town, between Knicks and Rangers. Hopefully, Cragg can figure out how to get $$$ to upgrade ours soon.
 

 

[monte]

We all agree the University is playing from behind in many regards financially.. if so, how can we continue to have an AD & coach, both who came from big, winning programs, speak about Final Fours and Big East championships so freely.   It just sets up for failure and a fan base who has an increasingly hard time buying into the vision put out publicly.

University needs to place some big time bets and pump in the needed $ to allow staff to legitimately recruit top talent or stop pretending its 1985 and touting that NYC is the mecca.

I believe part of the problem is the school is so conservative and inward looking that while they recognize what's happening around them and how fast things are moving they don't attempt to move faster.  Can't just play with intent to catch up as you never will You have to play with the intent to leapfrog.

Anderson seems and by all accounts,, a great leader, motivator and man..My two issues with Anderson are his recruiting and his game calling..  if he can't get those right, he'll never win big here.





 

In all honesty RSNC, when I hear that kind of talk about winning championships while we're still floundering as a program, and have shown no significant sign of being headed in the right direction,  it not only insults my intelligence, but it sounds like complete BS to me. Someone ought to tell the school that you don't sell more tickets with talk, you sell more tickets with results. Did Cragg actually attend Duke? That might explain his thinking. Dookies almost always think that they're the smartest guy in the room. 

Honestly, if you believe we are floundering under CMA, that's your prerogative.   I've communicated where Cragg and CMA want to be - I find that a lot more admirable that NR accepting razor thin wins vs lousy mid major teams and calling those great.   Would you hire someone who wanted your company to be less than the very best?   If you would, then that would say as much about you than that person.   Neither CMA or MC believe we are championship caliber right now, but neither bitch and moan or make excuses after tough losses.   We all remember coaches who would drone on endlessly about why we lost games - in Charlotte I asked Lavin if Harrison's shoulder injury was still serious enough to cause concern and he went on for five minutes about how good we'd be if Sampson and Harkless stayed. 

I know you have been miserable and are venting, but it's absolutely ridiculous to say there are no significant signs of the program heading in the right direction under CMA, when in his 1st season a team that was expected to be horrible ended the season as a very tough out, and last year's 4th place team was above expectations and earned him BE coach of the year.    

We have to recruit better, much better in my opinion, but after years of questioning why guys come here and never improve after year one, we have a coaching staff who by all means show that they can coach up players.   That will only get you so far of course.   

Presuming then that no 5 star player is going to join our roster over the next 3 months, the best expectation based on what CMA has done so far, is that guys will earn playing time with the same tough defense we've seen the first two seasons.   

In the meantime you can also choose to swoon over mid major players who left here and are excelling at a lower level of competition.   IMO those guys are program builders who will never get you where you want to be,but help attract better talent who will get you there.   

As others have pointed out, we aren't a pro franchise that has hundreds of millions to invest in winning and fans rightfully can stay home until they do win.   Our investors are our alumni and our ticket buying fans, and nothing you say will produce a winner without those investors.    

Cragg is doing his part.  He is the first AD to address the dreadful facilities that we have here.   We just lost to Pitt.  My cousin's kid just turned down an athletic scholarship there but came back raving how their facilities are like a professional franchise compared to other schools that offered him.   What do you think basketball recruits think when visiting  Pitt and SJU?

Pitt loses their best player, and we lost the twin to that best player, and we played a two point game.   

We've lost exactly 1 game by a margin of greater than 2 points, and if we scored on our last possession in one of those, we win.   

If you don't think a CMA team can improve end to end by 2 points per game, then I think you may be rooting for losses. 

 

 

[monte]

We all agree the University is playing from behind in many regards financially.. if so, how can we continue to have an AD & coach, both who came from big, winning programs, speak about Final Fours and Big East championships so freely.   It just sets up for failure and a fan base who has an increasingly hard time buying into the vision put out publicly.

University needs to place some big time bets and pump in the needed $ to allow staff to legitimately recruit top talent or stop pretending its 1985 and touting that NYC is the mecca.

I believe part of the problem is the school is so conservative and inward looking that while they recognize what's happening around them and how fast things are moving they don't attempt to move faster.  Can't just play with intent to catch up as you never will You have to play with the intent to leapfrog.

Anderson seems and by all accounts,, a great leader, motivator and man..My two issues with Anderson are his recruiting and his game calling..  if he can't get those right, he'll never win big here.





 

In all honesty RSNC, when I hear that kind of talk about winning championships while we're still floundering as a program, and have shown no significant sign of being headed in the right direction,  it not only insults my intelligence, but it sounds like complete BS to me. Someone ought to tell the school that you don't sell more tickets with talk, you sell more tickets with results. Did Cragg actually attend Duke? That might explain his thinking. Dookies almost always think that they're the smartest guy in the room. 

Honestly, if you believe we are floundering under CMA, that's your prerogative.   I've communicated where Cragg and CMA want to be - I find that a lot more admirable that NR accepting razor thin wins vs lousy mid major teams and calling those great.   Would you hire someone who wanted your company to be less than the very best?   If you would, then that would say as much about you than that person.   Neither CMA or MC believe we are championship caliber right now, but neither bitch and moan or make excuses after tough losses.   We all remember coaches who would drone on endlessly about why we lost games - in Charlotte I asked Lavin if Harrison's shoulder injury was still serious enough to cause concern and he went on for five minutes about how good we'd be if Sampson and Harkless stayed. 

I know you have been miserable and are venting, but it's absolutely ridiculous to say there are no significant signs of the program heading in the right direction under CMA, when in his 1st season a team that was expected to be horrible ended the season as a very tough out, and last year's 4th place team was above expectations and earned him BE coach of the year.    

We have to recruit better, much better in my opinion, but after years of questioning why guys come here and never improve after year one, we have a coaching staff who by all means show that they can coach up players.   That will only get you so far of course.   

Presuming then that no 5 star player is going to join our roster over the next 3 months, the best expectation based on what CMA has done so far, is that guys will earn playing time with the same tough defense we've seen the first two seasons.   

In the meantime you can also choose to swoon over mid major players who left here and are excelling at a lower level of competition.   IMO those guys are program builders who will never get you where you want to be,but help attract better talent who will get you there.   

As others have pointed out, we aren't a pro franchise that has hundreds of millions to invest in winning and fans rightfully can stay home until they do win.   Our investors are our alumni and our ticket buying fans, and nothing you say will produce a winner without those investors.    

Cragg is doing his part.  He is the first AD to address the dreadful facilities that we have here.   We just lost to Pitt.  My cousin's kid just turned down an athletic scholarship there but came back raving how their facilities are like a professional franchise compared to other schools that offered him.   What do you think basketball recruits think when visiting  Pitt and SJU?

Pitt loses their best player, and we lost the twin to that best player, and we played a two point game.   

We've lost exactly 1 game by a margin of greater than 2 points, and if we scored on our last possession in one of those, we win.   

If you don't think a CMA team can improve end to end by 2 points per game, then I think you may be rooting for losses. 

 

I'm not gonna dissect and challenge your entire post. Others have done some of that already. Let me just say this: if you think that this program is unequivocally headed in the right direction, then you are one of the few fans who thinks so. It's one thing to say that we need to give CMA more time to right the ship, it's a whole other to look at our totally irrelevant program and see a program that's clearly headed in the right direction. Frankly, I don't care what goes on behind the scenes with the administration. I don't care about talking to Shanley, Cragg or CMA. I don't care whether they're nice people or not. I only care about their competence as it relates to creating a quality basketball program. So far, other then a lot of rhetoric, I've seen very little to make me think that they are actually capable of resurrecting our program. This ain't PC, this ain't Arkansas and lord know this ain't Duke. This is SJU. All three know what the expectations are here, and they ain't even all that lofty. They also know the limitations. Don't talk about "national championships" in one breath, and then make excuses(finances, facilities, etc) in another breath. All three are paid handsomely to figure this stuff out. That's on them. So let's please stop making it seem like our fan apathy, which is more then understandable after what we've had to endure for 20+ years and 6 coaching changes, has anything to do with the condition of this program today. Besides, our core fan base has been the same make up, more or less, since I started following the team almost 50 years ago. If we had sold out every single game for the past 2+ seasons, we'd still be right where we are: irrelevant.  

 

[beast of the east]

It requires a thought process that is foreign to too many posters, but there seems to be little acceptance of the plight every coach so far, and probably any future coach, faces at St. John's. There is so much competition for top level recruits, and far too many inherent factors in the university and basketball program that hinder our ability to compete. We all know what they are. There are positives, too, or at least we want to think so. So the real question is there an elite coach who would come here, especially knowing that they will be expected to run a clean program, and do so with lesser facilities and for less money than they had at their previous job. And if they accepted those terms, would they be able to recruit the level of talent needed to succeed at a very high level?  These are questions that very few of us want to even consider.



 

I think this is a fair point.  However, there are comparative programs having success.  Look no further than Seton Hall, which has lousy facilities.   I agree, the margin of error is slim, but it is possible. 
again, SHU on campus locker rooms, sports medicine, coaching offices are much better than ours. And there is no comparison to SHU’s team rooms and facilities (which are their own and don’t share with NBA or NHL) at the Prudential Center to ours. They took over the Nets complete area for their own and have even upgraded that. SJU still sleps all their stuff game by game to MSG, and they rotate between rooms there based on who is in town, between Knicks and Rangers. Hopefully, Cragg can figure out how to get $$$ to upgrade ours soon.

 

As you may be aware, the Tafner Center is a great facility and competitive.   Our fans confuse arena with facilities.   Our facilities have literally not been upgraded since Alumni Hall was built.   The equipment room, the weight room, offices, are all in need of improvement and additions.  Below the arena is basically a dungeon.  One alum donated $1 million towards facilities infrastructure, but that's just a start.   I suspect Father Shanley would kick in some endowment cash IF alumni and fans stepped up donations.   If Alums don't donate, it will be a long, slow ride to improve facilities.    I'm really hard pressed to think what high end, non-blemished coach or AD would want to come here if either or both were to leave.   I would think only a risky mid major hire or an assistant AD or coach might come and use this as a stepping stone.if they had any success.

If you were at the HOF inductions, Joe DePre made some acceptance speech comments that are noteworthy in light of our present day predicament.    Looie used to say his recruiting budget was a roll of subway tokens.   The truth is that we for the most part (except for 1982-1984) recruited maybe 1 4 star player every 4 years out of HS.   There were some notable 4 star transfers back to SJU from the NYC area (Searcy, Carter, Rencher, and many others) and most guys stayed 4 years in those days.   Big programs recruited NYC, but today many more schools do.

DePre mentioned that when he was recruited to St. John's out of Westbury HS, he was also recruited by a bunch of out of state schools.   They told him that he would be the big man on campus.   At each school he basically told them, "Ok, that's fine, but how will I be treated once I leave campus and venture into town?"  When those schools didn't have an answer, he focused on coming to St. John's, which felt like home.    Times have changed, and the sort of things Bernard King experienced at Tennessee presumably don't happen much anymore.   I wonder if that's a reason less kids are reticent to leave NYC, and more never return via the transfer route.     

 

[beast of the east]

We all agree the University is playing from behind in many regards financially.. if so, how can we continue to have an AD & coach, both who came from big, winning programs, speak about Final Fours and Big East championships so freely.   It just sets up for failure and a fan base who has an increasingly hard time buying into the vision put out publicly.

University needs to place some big time bets and pump in the needed $ to allow staff to legitimately recruit top talent or stop pretending its 1985 and touting that NYC is the mecca.

I believe part of the problem is the school is so conservative and inward looking that while they recognize what's happening around them and how fast things are moving they don't attempt to move faster.  Can't just play with intent to catch up as you never will You have to play with the intent to leapfrog.

Anderson seems and by all accounts,, a great leader, motivator and man..My two issues with Anderson are his recruiting and his game calling..  if he can't get those right, he'll never win big here.








 

In all honesty RSNC, when I hear that kind of talk about winning championships while we're still floundering as a program, and have shown no significant sign of being headed in the right direction,  it not only insults my intelligence, but it sounds like complete BS to me. Someone ought to tell the school that you don't sell more tickets with talk, you sell more tickets with results. Did Cragg actually attend Duke? That might explain his thinking. Dookies almost always think that they're the smartest guy in the room. 

Honestly, if you believe we are floundering under CMA, that's your prerogative.   I've communicated where Cragg and CMA want to be - I find that a lot more admirable that NR accepting razor thin wins vs lousy mid major teams and calling those great.   Would you hire someone who wanted your company to be less than the very best?   If you would, then that would say as much about you than that person.   Neither CMA or MC believe we are championship caliber right now, but neither bitch and moan or make excuses after tough losses.   We all remember coaches who would drone on endlessly about why we lost games - in Charlotte I asked Lavin if Harrison's shoulder injury was still serious enough to cause concern and he went on for five minutes about how good we'd be if Sampson and Harkless stayed. 

I know you have been miserable and are venting, but it's absolutely ridiculous to say there are no significant signs of the program heading in the right direction under CMA, when in his 1st season a team that was expected to be horrible ended the season as a very tough out, and last year's 4th place team was above expectations and earned him BE coach of the year.    

We have to recruit better, much better in my opinion, but after years of questioning why guys come here and never improve after year one, we have a coaching staff who by all means show that they can coach up players.   That will only get you so far of course.   

Presuming then that no 5 star player is going to join our roster over the next 3 months, the best expectation based on what CMA has done so far, is that guys will earn playing time with the same tough defense we've seen the first two seasons.   

In the meantime you can also choose to swoon over mid major players who left here and are excelling at a lower level of competition.   IMO those guys are program builders who will never get you where you want to be,but help attract better talent who will get you there.   

As others have pointed out, we aren't a pro franchise that has hundreds of millions to invest in winning and fans rightfully can stay home until they do win.   Our investors are our alumni and our ticket buying fans, and nothing you say will produce a winner without those investors.    

Cragg is doing his part.  He is the first AD to address the dreadful facilities that we have here.   We just lost to Pitt.  My cousin's kid just turned down an athletic scholarship there but came back raving how their facilities are like a professional franchise compared to other schools that offered him.   What do you think basketball recruits think when visiting  Pitt and SJU?

Pitt loses their best player, and we lost the twin to that best player, and we played a two point game.   

We've lost exactly 1 game by a margin of greater than 2 points, and if we scored on our last possession in one of those, we win.   

If you don't think a CMA team can improve end to end by 2 points per game, then I think you may be rooting for losses. 




 

I'm not gonna dissect and challenge your entire post. Others have done some of that already. Let me just say this: if you think that this program is unequivocally headed in the right direction, then you are one of the few fans who thinks so. It's one thing to say that we need to give CMA more time to right the ship, it's a whole other to look at our totally irrelevant program and see a program that's clearly headed in the right direction. Frankly, I don't care what goes on behind the scenes with the administration. I don't care about talking to Shanley, Cragg or CMA. I don't care whether they're nice people or not. I only care about their competence as it relates to creating a quality basketball program. So far, other then a lot of rhetoric, I've seen very little to make me think that they are actually capable of resurrecting our program. This ain't PC, this ain't Arkansas and lord know this ain't Duke. This is SJU. All three know what the expectations are here, and they ain't even all that lofty. They also know the limitations. Don't talk about "national championships" in one breath, and then make excuses(finances, facilities, etc) in another breath. All three are paid handsomely to figure this stuff out. That's on them. So let's please stop making it seem like our fan apathy, which is more then understandable after what we've had to endure for 20+ years and 6 coaching changes, has anything to do with the condition of this program today. Besides, our core fan base has been the same make up, more or less, since I started following the team almost 50 years ago. If we had sold out every single game for the past 2+ seasons, we'd still be right where we are: irrelevant.  

1.  Who is going to pay for the improvements needed to be competitive, and
2.  What would you change if you were made AD tomorrow, and how? 
3. For you to think that a recruit attending a sold out Seton Hall, Creighton, Villanova, or Providence game, and then come to an SJU game is not impacted I think you are wrong.
4. If you think a recruit comes in and sees our facilties and isn't impacted, I think you are wrong.

Yes, Cragg knew this when he came here, and is trying to do something about that.   Why is that problematic to you?

 

[Mean Gene]

Repole wanted Hurley as his coach.  If he ponied up the $10 million he was dangling he may have gotten his wish.  He thought $100K to upgrade men's and women's locker rooms would get him access to the decision.  Instead you guys would be clamoring for Hurley's head the way AZ State is. 

I understand what you’re saying Beast. Believe me I do. The question is though, with the upgrades that this program needs to really compete, where else could the money come from? If you have an alumni who’s willing to do it for a little influence regarding decisions made pertaining to the program then why wouldn’t you do it? I know we have other big donors but probably not with resources that Repole has. The program is doomed to mediocrity or less if this isn’t figured out.

With regard to Hurley, being a local guy from the area and with his local connections, maybe he would have been a better fit here than out there in Arizona. It might have been a better situation for him. You never know.

 

[GardenCity62]

If Hurley was hired and the money was there to upgrade the facilities SJU would be in a much better place than they are now .

 

[Alumni Hall]

 
Sir, we do know the difference from an arena and practice facility. The present team locker room in Taffner is so small that some players have to SHARE lockers. There are not even enough for walkons or practice players to have their own. It is by FAR the smallest in the Big East. The player lounge consists of two small couches with a refrigerator and a microwave. It has two urinals and one toilet in the bathroom area. The weight room is so small that the team must lift in shifts. The sports medicine area consists of a taping area and 4-5 treatment tables which they share with the women's team and both teams usually practice at the same time and it’s always clogged up. In the coaches offices upstairs , some coaches do not even have their own office. Two offices have three staff members crammed in. The team has no dedicated film room like other Big East schools, they share a common area room in Carnesecca with all the other teams and also serves as the area which all the SJU teams use for team meetings, pregame meals, social events, athletic staff meetings. Both WBB and MBB strength coaches share a room not bigger than a walk in closet, maybe 6x10 feet and they store all their nutrition supplies in there also.
To get the off court areas in Taffner up to speed with our Big East member schools is a huge financial project, not to mention the logistics of building out with the present footprint. Hopefully it can come to fruition with this new President. The athletes, coaches and support staff certainly deserve it for all the hard work and commitment they put in.


 

 

[MainMan]

Are we ever going to come to terms that we'll never ever get back to the success we enjoyed in the 1980s?

And that three decades of data suggests an NCAA tournament every 4 to 5 years is our program's trajectory?

Be pessimists gentlemen. It'll temper expectations and make you appreciate unexpected surprises.

 

 

[Spocky Ramone]

Are we ever going to come to terms that we'll never ever get back to the success we enjoyed in the 1980s?

And that three decades of data suggests an NCAA tournament every 4 to 5 years is our program's trajectory?

Be pessimists gentlemen. It'll temper expectations and make you appreciate unexpected surprises.


 

It’s not just a river in Egypt…

 

[monte]

Using the quote function on my phone is too difficult. Directed at Beast;
our last 3 coaches came here with no head coaching experience except for Lav, who hadn't coached in years. They all faced the same obstacles here and all 3 of them-yes, even Norm who faced much greater obstacles-recruited at a higher level. I use the last 3 coaches because it's a more recent history.  Why should it take CMA, who's a pro, 5 years to maybe recruit at a level close to that which Lav and Mullin achieved almost immediately? We are not even in the mix with any top recruits. CMA's Ark  teams danced 3 times in 8 years, each year with a handful of top 100 recruits. Now, you tell me how exactly is he gonna have us dancing consistently when he can't even bring in the same level of talent that he got at Ark? The same level of talent that saw Arkansas only make the tourney 3 times in his 8 years there. It all just sounds like wishful thinking/blind faith  to me right now. And that's fine if that's how you think, but it sure as hell ain't how I think. 

 

[jr49]

The only thing I got to hold on to is the league we play in. What I would like to see is coach make the players he brings here become good basketball players and a team that competes in the big east. If that happenes we need good ones to wanna be here. What happened this off season was no better then lavin leaving us with no players. Nothing like it can ever happen again. One day we had a team and then Puff. Was mike really happy bringing this group here? 

 

[Ray Morgan]

A year ago, I put together and posted each Big East team and the number of 4 and 5 star recruits. Obviously, St. John's was near the bottom with Depaul. St. John's finish was a testament to the vast improvement by Champ, the continued growth of Earl and GWill, and the havoc created by Posh. Moore had a good season as well. CMA had an excellent season from the bench.

This time, I just want to put out some numbers taken from the ESPN 100 ranking of top high school players. The focus was on St. John's only.
After hitting a home run in 2011, things started to deteriorate in terms of recruiting higher rated players,
Here are the number of 4 star and above high school recruits from 2014 through 2021:
2014:  0
2015: 0
2016:  1 (Ponds)
2017: 0
2018: 0
2019: 0
2020: 0
2021: 0
Seven of the past 8 seasons, St. John's was shut out of top 100 recruits. AJ Storr, who is ranked in the high 90s, ended the streak of no top 100 recruits at 5.  For comparative purposes, Creighton landed four 4 star recruits in 2021 alone. This after their coach was nearly a victim of cancel culture.  I did not compile stats for the other Big East teams, but unless every other school was shut out, St. John's ranked last.  I saw Depaul a few times, so it's not even a tie for last place. What Lavin did in 2011 was really an anomaly.  His recruiting  cooled down significantly after that, and certainly his health crisis was a big factor, among others.

To fix this, there needs to be an honest assessment by A.D. Cragg and the university hierarchy regarding why a host of coaches have been unable produce better recruiting numbers. I understand that having a winning program will help recruiting, but obviously we can all see the problem with that. Call me jaded, but I put college basketball recruiting one step above pro wrestling and one step below horse racing in terms of honesty and integrity. At least wrestling admits it's a show. This makes the current approach at St. John's akin to running a marathon with a piano on your back. One poster suggested that the basketball program be handed over to Repole. With someone as familiar with the high end of the thoroughbred industry, I have no doubt he is quite aware of what would be needed to turn things around. I also would be interested in knowing what posters would do if they were in control of the program.