Anderson Conversation
- Thread starter Moose
- Start date
Didn't you hear? It's all the fault of our tightwad fan base.
Boo Harvey
Well-known member
Sorry, but we shouldn’t make excuses. Anderson and staff are getting paid a lot of $ and the recruiting is subpar. Last two coaches have gotten fired after making the tournament their final year yet some on this Board would have CMA return regardless of whether we make the tournament.
Johnny Rapper
Well-known member
Agree but it seems that Anderson is all but assuring that they will make the Dance. He has proclaimed that this is the most talent he’s had since he’s been here and he believes the team is capable of doing very well. I would interpret “very well” as not just getting to the Dance but advancing as anything less would be disappointing and perhaps, by the coaches standard, underachieving. Glad he is so confident.
MugCostanza
Well-known member
It’s all good guys, the NCAA Tournament will probably be 128 teams by 2025 so these JuCo guys we’ll end up with should at least make us a bubble team
That's fair, and while we shouldn't make excuses, we shouldn't ignore facts and circumstances either. Fact is, neither of those last two coaches had their recruiting curtailed by a global pandemic, their schedules blown up and players held out of critical games due to covid rules and restrictions beyond their control.
Nobody deserves a free pass for those years but if you a critiquing them as if they were normal years in any other administration, that's a wee bit disingenuous.
guinness77
Well-known member
Hmm.
Memphis vs. St. John’s?
UCLA vs. St. John’s?
We all have an understood distorted view of this argument. These kids don’t have the same perception we do. We need to not only make a Tournament. We need some Ws whenever we get in. This is a HUGE freaking season.
Memphis vs. St. John’s?
UCLA vs. St. John’s?
We all have an understood distorted view of this argument. These kids don’t have the same perception we do. We need to not only make a Tournament. We need some Ws whenever we get in. This is a HUGE freaking season.
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No it wasn't. Coaches who were established in their jobs when covid hit and had been recruiting specific players in those classes for YEARS had an enormous advantage.
Even so, doesn't change the fact that none of CMA's predecessors had to deal with a game changing issue at that level, so comparing their first 2 years to his is a poor way to benchmark his results.
Not saying he's free of criticism, because he's not. But facts are facts, even if they are inconvenient to someone's premise.
CMA is making market rate for his job. He is running what is an exponentially more competent program internally, from organizational structure to staffing to professionalism. Those are the plusses. I don't know where program stability and professionalism rate in the job description but I will say the shambles in the back office and on the staffs at the end of both of the previous coaches stays obviously had as much if not more to do with the end of their tenures than the accomplishments of their last seasons.
One obvious CMA minus is that he is not quite the high profile public face that a Lavin or Mullin is, which probably negatively impacts his recruiting (no one is getting star struck). Very few parents and players take a good hard look at the back office when they are picking a school. That could be an ongoing problem. Especially for the higher level recruits we all covet. But I am willing to admit that CMA and his approach are not sexy and that could be an ongoing problem.
Another key point which I shouldn't bring up but will is that STJ is nationally irrelevant and nothing, not even a few consecutive years in the dance, is going to change that. Cooley got Providence to the dance 5 years in a row, but they were still nationally irrelevant. Butler went to dances 4 out of 5 years and two consecutive final fours under Stevens and then 3 straight years with Holtmann, they are nationally irrelevant. Same goes for Xavier and Creighton despite sustained periods of success. The only nationally relevant programs in the BE are UConn, Nova and GTown. What rank and file hoops fans think of STJ and the BE isn't important except for the fact that most recruits and their parents are rank and file fans. Just something to keep in mind.
All that said I believe both Cragg and Anderson have set a bar for this year of Dance or Bust. If they don't make it then some long conversations will hopefully be had and some difficult decisions may need to be made. But I anticipate a dance this year and far less turmoil in the program than we became accustomed to under the last two coaches. At the same time I hope for better results on the recruiting trail.
guinness77
Well-known member
I agree with most of this post but St. John’s has two things the other Big East schools doesn’t. It is truly located in NYC, despite what other programs may claim and we play in the Garden. If this program can, you know, actually win and keep it even remotely sustained, I think we enter the National conversation.
Any top 25 team is in the national conversation, heck even Niagara for the first half of last year, but nationally relevancy is a different animal. How did Niagara's early season ranking effect their fall commitments last year?
guinness77
Well-known member
I’m just saying, the whole NYC/MSG aspect of SJU (would, of course) catapults us past the other schools you mention. Why do people still care about the Knicks? Even Brooklyn doesn’t get any respect.Any top 25 team is in the national conversation, heck even Niagara for the first half of last year, but nationally relevancy is a different animal. How did Niagara's early season ranking effect their fall commitments last year?
We have a top 90 kid in Storr and a top 60 in Gardner. We may lose a couple kids and we need more talent of course, but it’s early in the recruiting season and between HS talent and transfers, I don’t believe we are doing a poor job. We literally landed a potential All Big East transfer in Dave Jones. Living and dying by each recruit isn’t worth it. Storr and Gardner are bonafide Big East starting caliber kids. Hopefully we continue but it’s been far from a failure of a class thus far.
guinness77
Well-known member
I’m just trying to stay realistic with my opinion, not be a Debbie Downer. I get why we don’t get some of these kids no matter what the staff does. I also get why some local kids are more inclined to come here. When it comes down to it, these kids just want PT and, hopefully, to win. We win, we get more kids from Florida or wherever. I don’t comment in these threads usually because I have never seen any of these kids play and it’s hard to have an opinion about something I know nothing about, so I take a seat back and just read the threads.
Missing out on Cherefant and Williams while disappointing is not my biggest concern. It's what we do on the court this season. I have said it several times that we need to get back to the NCAA tournament and win a game. If we can't accomplish that it will continue to make recruiting harder and the program more irrelevant.
Yes, it is still early, I just think that some are concerned or disappointed since 2 of our 3 highest primary targets seem now to be going elsewhere. Despite what Meatloaf thinks, 2 out of 3 ain't that good.
20+ years ago maybe. Today, not so much. There is no "media capital" in a digital world. MSG is a new kind of relic, like the Parthenon, held in high esteem for its history but not nearly as relevant today. And aren't there more college basketball dates at MSG that don't include St Johns than otherwise? Maybe if there were more than 4 home dates this would be important. Re Knicks v Nets, who do you think is more nationally discussed/relevant? If you say the Knicks you need to get out of NY more. All this coming from someone that generally considers New York the center of the universe by the way.
The Knicks. Please stop.