An Open Letter to Chris Monasch/ St John's Admin

Just to show the progress that the program is making, realize we are all debating whether or not we should buy out Lavin's contract after a 20 win season.
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I could agree with this statement in isolation. However, the discontent goes far beyond wins and losses. The feeling (by most everyone) is that this team won 20 games in spite of poor coaching. As Monte mentioned, it's not just how the season ended. It's the beginning of the season, the end of the season, untimely time-outs, hard to understand line-ups, no offensive strategy, a recruiting hiatus, an ill-advised draft declaration, head-scratching substitutions, and the endless insulting excuses.

So, if you told me five years ago that I would be calling for our coach's firing after a 20 win season, I would not have believed you. However, I also never thought I would witness this level of dysfunction.
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I can understand that, definitely. I guess I am more fearful of what our administration would do in regards to a replacement for Lavin. I have been one of the few in support of Lavin but I definitely see his flaws, I'm just not sure that firing him and pretty much starting all over again is the best answer. I haven't been a fan as long as many posters on this board but I have already seen 5 coaches at St. John's. There is nothing more i would like to see than some stability in this program, especially a stable program that wins constantly. I don't want to bring in someone who might succeed just as easily as he might fail. The only way I want Lavin gone is if they bring in someone with a proven track record who will be able to bring recruits into our program and of course win. I just don't see in anyway how we are in a position to make such a hire. Shaka Smart would be my ideal candidate but that is not going to happen. I would also like us to give Masiello a spot on our staff while he gets his degree and possibly set him up to be Lavin's successor. I don't see that happening either
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You've pretty much nailed how I feel about this whole thing. Thank you!
 
Here are a few possibilities to explain why St. John's fans are understandably unhappy with Lavin and the status of our program right now:

1. Before the season began, Lavin more than implied that he expected our team to make the NCAA's.
2. We started the league season 0-5
3. We finished the season poorly, capped by a "no show" performance against RM in the NIT
4. We already lost two players from our roster and may lose at least one more
5. We have 5 open scholarships and don't appear to have any big time prospects on our radar (even ADL is not a sure thing anymore)
6. We don't hear about our staff beating the bushes to line up potential recruits
7. There is a perception that Lavin can recruit but can't coach his way out of a paper bag

Yes, we won 20 games this year but does the future look bright at this moment?
As an almost 50 year fan of the Johnnies, I would have to say "no"
If we head into 2014-15 with our current roster, I would be surprised if we made the NCAA's next season
Back in the day, we expected to make NCAA's most years; now we're happy to get in once in a while
We're like the old gray mare..... "we ain't what we used to be" and probably won't be again anytime soon
 
Mark, I think your list is spot on but in the area of Lavin's strengths. I don't want him gone but suspect that the throw talent at the ball and see if it sticks approach that I associate with Lavin is a recipe' for dissatisfaction unless we win it all.
 
I can't add much to what's already been said.

I'm still hoping Lavin can pull some rabbits out of the hat.

I like that he's a great face for the school. I like that he regularly gets us in the national media. I like that he brought in better recruits than we've seen since the Jarvis years over a decade ago. I like that we've made the postseason in three of his four years and even with the skeleton team that may take the floor next season, we're pretty much guaranteed at least an NIT bid. That'll be four out of five years.

Let's face it. There are the Mets and there are the Yankees. Mets fans would be elated with a wild card. Yankee fans believe anything less than a championship is a disappointing season. Redmen fans would be happy with an NCAA appearance. That puts them in the Mets' category. That's the overwhelming vibe of this program. It's sickening to me that we're closer to Manhattan than we are to UCONN. I didn't think it would be this way with a Lavin hire.

I thought he would lead us into the big time that has evaded us since the Goodwin/Mullin/Berry/Jackson/Wennington years.

I hate that he hasn't been able to do it. I hate that I'm starting to believe there are no coaches who'd come here who could do it. I hate that his laid back California style rubs off on the players who won't play an entire 40 minutes, not even in the most important games of the year. I hate that he plays the fan base with empty promises that include "This team will be special; just wait till March"...or "We're focusing on the '15 class which is very special". I hate that we're not even going after Mcdonald AA's.

I hate that I'm not able to tune out college basketball and my beloved team the way I tune out college football.
 
Not to sound harsh, but while this sounds like a great fan, it also sounds like an uninformed one who only realizes the results on the court. I was one of Lavin's biggest supporters, and appreciate what he's done in bringing in a high level of talent and also made us more relevant on the advertising front, there are too many issues to overlook. We still have to wait for things to shake out, but it seems that the kids don't respect him like they should and he seemingly has stopped recruiting even though we lost half of our roster (I'm willing to give more time on that). Also, I can't get over the fact of how poor of a coach he is. We must run one of the worst offensive gameplan's in all of NCAA, and using the term "gameplan" is generous because I don't see us running anything.
 
Not to sound harsh, but while this sounds like a great fan, it also sounds like an uninformed one who only realizes the results on the court. I was one of Lavin's biggest supporters, and appreciate what he's done in bringing in a high level of talent and also made us more relevant on the advertising front, there are too many issues to overlook. We still have to wait for things to shake out, but it seems that the kids don't respect him like they should and he seemingly has stopped recruiting even though we lost half of our roster (I'm willing to give more time on that). Also, I can't get over the fact of how poor of a coach he is. We must run one of the worst offensive gameplan's in all of NCAA, and using the term "gameplan" is generous because I don't see us running anything.
 
My only problem with his letter is how he closes it..

"There is a lot of negativity out on twitter and the blogospheres. However, I don't believe this reflects the faith of true fans like myself who actually attend the games.."

He's entitled to his opinion, and as a long time fan I respect what he has to say. After all, we're all St Johns fans here. We have common experiences and a common bond.
But what makes him a "true fan"? That's an implication I've seen around here lately as well, and I think it's divisive.

As with most things in life, this isn't a black and white situation. There are things that Lavin has done right, there are things he's done wrong, and there are a whole slew of things that have occurred that are hard to attribute to any one cause. And let's face it, most things we debate fall into that latter category. Does the ball-movement suck because the players are selfish? Is it because Lavin hasn't coached them? Is the scheme to blame? Or, are the players just not that talented? I honestly don't know, and I challenge anyone to answer any of these types of questions with a definitive answer, because it's just not possible.
And because of that ambiguity in the causes of the program's current problems, there's bound to be a variety of opinions. But no one opinion makes you any more of a "true fan" than anybody else.
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I think what is really at the heart of those comments, which incidentally have no bearing on your measure of a fan, is that many season ticket holders have endured disappointing campaign after disappointing campaign while forking over a considerable growing amount of money. In the very lean years, you sit in the Garden against a top 20 opponent (say WVU), and the total attendance was around 5,000. Even as the team improved, and this season provided plenty of competitive games, we struggled to put 10,000 of our own fans in the Garden. When there are so many empty seats, ticket holders who really struggle to come up with $1200 for a pair of season tickets sometimes out of sheer loyalty may even have some basis to consider themselves more loyal. Of course, it's not a valid measure of being a fan. Ticket purchases come out of discretionary dollars, and there are all sorts of reasons (age, health, financial status, family responsibilities, distance, to name a few) why other "true fans" don't attend games.
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My season tickets take a bite out of my wallet just as much as the next guy though Beast. His implication is that true fans attend games, which we agree isn't a great measure because people can't attend for various reasons, but it also carries the connotation that those "true fans" don't want Lavin out. That's the sentiment that rubs me the wrong way. Otherwise I think his letter makes some good points. But it's not the first time I've seen this sentiment that the real loyal fans of the program all feel one way. That's just not true.
 
Is there any truth to his statement about Lavin's illness causing Gathers to renege? I don't recall. No offense to the author, who meant well and is entitled to his opinion, but IMO he doesn't make a very persuasive argument on Lavin's behalf.
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Is Lavin getting well the reason Hooper, Sampson, and maybe Obekpa is leaving. Okay, just kidding.

Here's my two cents, a little different than the stuff I've posted before.

When Lavin arrived, so did a new era of SJU basketball. Suddenly, we also started to become a first class program. I don't attest all of this to Lavin, but I can tell you in that very first season, fans were invited to the NY Athletic Club for selection Sunday for a NO CHARGE cocktail hour with drinks and food. Keady was with the fans throughout the evening, and Lavin stayed with the team in another room, I guess just in case. HE then came in and addressed the crowd.

During the BET I was invited to a skybox that SJU paid for, again with food and beverage. I know that this wasn't going to be an every game and every year invite, but I was sure appreciative of their generosity. First class all the way.

Then in Denver, for the first round of the NCAA tournament, SJU again hosted a cocktail hour, again free, to thank all the fans who made the trip. It was such an upgrade from the old way of doing things, and even FH attended the Denver gathering. By all means SJU was and I believe is focused on the full restoration of our program.

I have questioned the in game decisions that Lavin has made, but to be honest, over all the years of watching Carnesecca, am still waiting for some clue that he knew how to manage the clock as a close game wound down. Mahoney, who seemed brilliant or at least the basketball brains behind the X's and O's of Lou's teams, looked lost as HC. Fraschilla had a shot at being something, if he didn't end his tenure looking like the kind of coach you wouldn't want your kids near. Add Jarvis to that mix as well. Well, you'd want Norm to be around your kids to teach them anything - except basketball.

So now we have a coach, who can recruit really really well, who appears to have not done so well this past year recruiting at a really bad time - when another very good class would have us break through the glass ceiling. Add the defections, and the teams poor showing this year, and I understand the dissatisfaction.

But - when you start to talk about how he's treated the kids - with warmth and compassion, and caring when they needed that, and with the firm hand of a disciplinarian when they needed that, and I'll tell you, I'm not sure I'd want anyone else from that prior group heading up the program in that regard.

I still hold onto the belief that Lavin's best days are ahead of him at St. John's. It may be ridiculous optimism, but I do think there is ample reason for that, as long as we don't run him out of town.
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Since there are only about fifty of us, none of us will "run him out of town". He should be fairly evaluated by the AD & whoever else at SJU has legitimate input. Our word means nothing one way or another. Financial supporters obviously do. If the powers to be support him, give him an extension and he chooses to continue with us, so be it. As a long time fan, I may not agree with their decision, but will support it.
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I agree 100%
 
My only problem with his letter is how he closes it..

"There is a lot of negativity out on twitter and the blogospheres. However, I don't believe this reflects the faith of true fans like myself who actually attend the games.."

He's entitled to his opinion, and as a long time fan I respect what he has to say. After all, we're all St Johns fans here. We have common experiences and a common bond.
But what makes him a "true fan"? That's an implication I've seen around here lately as well, and I think it's divisive.

As with most things in life, this isn't a black and white situation. There are things that Lavin has done right, there are things he's done wrong, and there are a whole slew of things that have occurred that are hard to attribute to any one cause. And let's face it, most things we debate fall into that latter category. Does the ball-movement suck because the players are selfish? Is it because Lavin hasn't coached them? Is the scheme to blame? Or, are the players just not that talented? I honestly don't know, and I challenge anyone to answer any of these types of questions with a definitive answer, because it's just not possible.
And because of that ambiguity in the causes of the program's current problems, there's bound to be a variety of opinions. But no one opinion makes you any more of a "true fan" than anybody else.
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I think what is really at the heart of those comments, which incidentally have no bearing on your measure of a fan, is that many season ticket holders have endured disappointing campaign after disappointing campaign while forking over a considerable growing amount of money. In the very lean years, you sit in the Garden against a top 20 opponent (say WVU), and the total attendance was around 5,000. Even as the team improved, and this season provided plenty of competitive games, we struggled to put 10,000 of our own fans in the Garden. When there are so many empty seats, ticket holders who really struggle to come up with $1200 for a pair of season tickets sometimes out of sheer loyalty may even have some basis to consider themselves more loyal. Of course, it's not a valid measure of being a fan. Ticket purchases come out of discretionary dollars, and there are all sorts of reasons (age, health, financial status, family responsibilities, distance, to name a few) why other "true fans" don't attend games.
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My season tickets take a bite out of my wallet just as much as the next guy though Beast. His implication is that true fans attend games, which we agree isn't a great measure because people can't attend for various reasons, but it also carries the connotation that those "true fans" don't want Lavin out. That's the sentiment that rubs me the wrong way. Otherwise I think his letter makes some good points. But it's not the first time I've seen this sentiment that the real loyal fans of the program all feel one way. That's just not true.
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Of course not all season ticket holders feel the same. While it isn't a group exclusive to season ticket holders, the common ground is we are all passionate fans and want the team to win.
 
We are all passionate fans who want the team to win...the question is, win what?

Some would like the team to compete for national championships every year as does UCONN. Others want the team to win the conference and they're happy just to make the NCAA tournament. Then there are those who are just happy with a clean program and a signature win or two per season.

It's this difference that's causing all the tension.
 
We are all passionate fans who want the team to win...the question is, win what?

Some would like the team to compete for national championships every year as does UCONN. Others want the team to win the conference and they're happy just to make the NCAA tournament. Then there are those who are just happy with a clean program and a signature win or two per season.

It's this difference that's causing all the tension.
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Honestly who cares what we think. It's the adminstration that is divided into those three factions you described which is why we are where we are.

However, the longer everyone just sits around watching the Great Lawn grow, a resolution will be made for them. And that is unfortunately choice #3.
 
We are all passionate fans who want the team to win...the question is, win what?

Some would like the team to compete for national championships every year as does UCONN. Others want the team to win the conference and they're happy just to make the NCAA tournament. Then there are those who are just happy with a clean program and a signature win or two per season.

It's this difference that's causing all the tension.
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I'll qualify your response with one other edification: Win what when?

I think most of us would be satisfied to get to the level of program that an NCAA bid is expected most seasons - fill in the blank what satisfies you - 5/10, 6/10, 10/10. That hardly matters, but to be a competitive program that can compete well at the highest levels of college basketball, knowing full well that to be routinely among the Kentuckys, Dukes, and Floridas of the world is at least a few hops away, if not a pipe dream.

The disagreement is how much patience we should have in getting there. If we removed that issue, all of the disagreements on this board would likely be minimized.
 
I've been a fan of St JOHN'S basketball since I was 12 years old..I had season tickets for a number of years until I retired and moved from the area. I watch every game intently.It's been a extremely disappointing 15 years watching the decline of a once great BB program. While not a Duke, Kansas, KU or NC,Indiana, our team and school could pretty much hold their own against most other teams in the Nation.
This has not been the case for nearly the whole decade plus.

I, like nearly all here, thought the Lavin hiring signaled a attempt to regain a semblance of our past legacy. Lavin himself, alluded to this in his 1st year by saying we were a "SLEEPING GIANT,' and capable of rebuilding the proud tradition that surrounded this University for over 100 years.

Year one, no one deserves more praise than Lavin or, Dunlap to get Norm's players to the NCAA and provide a degree of excitement we hadn't seen in a long, long time.

YEAR 2,most of the fan base was content to suffer the consequence of a freshman laden squad because they came with such high press clippings.
Year 3, we began to see early in the season that there wasn't much improvement in how the team played and looked horribly inept in many games.We finished the year as a NIT team and played decently against St Joe's and Virginia in that tournament.

Year 4, instead of looking like a team on the cusp of a NCAA season we lost 5 league games in a row and despite a nice mid season run in the league, floundered down the stretch losing nearly every game with something on the line. Then, quitting on themselves, the school and the staff in a embarrassing non effort vs Robert MORRIS!

Unlike, St Joe's and Virgina, NIT foes last year who used that experience to vault to the next level of performance and the NCAA , we limped into the NIT and, promptly lost to a much less talented team.

At this point, as has been mentioned here, it is possible next year's team might not even be a 5th place team. No sterling recruits on the horizon, no big man with skills other than swatting shots, no real shooter, no real power or small forward..

So, at this point, what , logically can most fans say? Sure, it is easy to spout optimism but, is that reality or just hope? The core of next year's team are 4 year seniors who haven't qualified for the NCAA IN THEIR CAREERS.

There are a lot of other schools out there, including most without the pedigrees of our players, who get to the NCAA WITHIN A 4 YEAR PERIOD.

We are still on the outside looking in.. A coach with the reputed skills of a Lavin should have gotten more out of this group than has happened.

Getting to the NCAA regularly was what Lavin's mission was from day 1. Otherwise, we can get where we are now with a far less expensive Coach, if the NIT is the barometer.

I don't think any St JOHN'S FANS ARE WILLING TO SETTLE FOR THAT..
 
We haven't been competitive for the last 20 years and we are now in shambles again. Lavin has an impossible job..if I was him I would run from the school as fast as I could. The Cal job would be perfect for him. He can recruit and with a decent program/ funds behind him he could flourish. No fans, diminished conference, little money equals "time to exit stage left". Time to join the NEC folks and adjust our expectations massively. We have no leadership as an institution and it's taking forever to find a President. Hate to say it but Vincentian leadership has never had good business acumen, great mission to help the underprivileged. See DePaul and Niagara.

Thanks coach Lav for trying but this is an impossible job for anyone.
 
We haven't been competitive for the last 20 years and we are now in shambles again. Lavin has an impossible job..if I was him I would run from the school as fast as I could. The Cal job would be perfect for him. He can recruit and with a decent program/ funds behind him he could flourish. No fans, diminished conference, little money equals "time to exit stage left". Time to join the NEC folks and adjust our expectations massively. We have no leadership as an institution and it's taking forever to find a President. Hate to say it but Vincentian leadership has never had good business acumen, great mission to help the underprivileged. See DePaul and Niagara.

Thanks coach Lav for trying but this is an impossible job for anyone.
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Let me get this straight, you think this is the Vincentians' fault?
 
We haven't been competitive for the last 20 years and we are now in shambles again. Lavin has an impossible job..if I was him I would run from the school as fast as I could. The Cal job would be perfect for him. He can recruit and with a decent program/ funds behind him he could flourish. No fans, diminished conference, little money equals "time to exit stage left". Time to join the NEC folks and adjust our expectations massively. We have no leadership as an institution and it's taking forever to find a President. Hate to say it but Vincentian leadership has never had good business acumen, great mission to help the underprivileged. See DePaul and Niagara.

Thanks coach Lav for trying but this is an impossible job for anyone.
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Let me get this straight, you think this is the Vincentians' fault?
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The kids, the Vincentians, Monasch, Harringtom, the facilities..........................anybody but Lavin.
 
We haven't been competitive for the last 20 years and we are now in shambles again. Lavin has an impossible job..if I was him I would run from the school as fast as I could. The Cal job would be perfect for him. He can recruit and with a decent program/ funds behind him he could flourish. No fans, diminished conference, little money equals "time to exit stage left". Time to join the NEC folks and adjust our expectations massively. We have no leadership as an institution and it's taking forever to find a President. Hate to say it but Vincentian leadership has never had good business acumen, great mission to help the underprivileged. See DePaul and Niagara.

Thanks coach Lav for trying but this is an impossible job for anyone.
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Great post! Well the first sentence anyway.
 
You're right. I don't agree with the author. Last week, I watched the Division 2 Championship game- two teams equally matched with players less athletic perhaps and certainly smaller than those recruited by Coach Lavin. Another difference was that both teams were predominantly composed of upper class men. They played like seasoned teams too. Passing, blocking out, hitting the open man - is it really necessary to belabor the explanation? It was thoroughly enjoyable watching the game. Call me old school. I'm certainly older than most of the contributors here. My point is that there seems to be a marked difference in recruiting philosophy between Coach and all his predecessors. I may not have liked the way Norm Roberts coached games or developed players ( a shortcoming of the present coach as well), but at least DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne and Mr, Burell graduated from St. John's. I would like to see a return of the 4 year player and the development of teams that remind me of why I love college basketball. Is the only way to achieve that to reduce the program to Division 2? I don't know, but this last Se. John's team wasn't anything like any team that ever wore a St. John's jersey. I suppose if we won consistently I might feel differently, but we are not Kentucky, and we can't continue as we are now and still compete at this level. I don't like Coach Lavin's brand of basketball.
 
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