A most excellent season so far

Beasts of the East

Well-known member
2023 $upporter
First of, i don't like creating threads because I like topics to be different enough to stand alone and not because I want my thoughts to stand out.

This has been an excellent season, one in which St. John's basketball has experienced a renaissance. In our 31st game, with our team on the precipice of success or failure 16000 mostly St. John's fans filled the Garden.

On Thursday mid day I checked with St. John's about ticket sales for today. I was told to expect 11-12,000. That morning just 33 tickets had sold. Depressing. Then yesterday I stopped into the ticket office and it was a zoo with student workers packaging hundreds of printed tickets for will call and the phone ringing off the hook. Big east plans were delayed. I was told expect 14000. Yes plenty of comps to former players, some celebs, military and first responders. Somehow that blew up to 16000 for a Saturday morning game vs a bad Georgetown team.

Somehow our fans knew that the ghost of Gtown was like a badly wounded lion who could rise up a deal a lethal blow to our squad. With about 10 minutes to go in a game where Georgetown came back to take a lead and we answered with a basket or great defensive play, the Garden crowd rose to its feet for entire sequences exhorting the team in unison. Again and again in waves our fans let our guys know this is our house, we weren't outnumbered, and we were there to lift them.

It was reminiscent of 70s and 80s crowds at games where St John's covered the wet ink back pages of the Post, Daily News, and Newsday. When newspapers mattered and you'd grab a discarded papef on the railroad and your fingers would still get stained with black ink. The Garden wasn't filled with ghosts but real fans, some as old or older than our 71 yr old rock star coach, but plenty of kids, teens, college students and 20-60 year olds too. All rooting their asses off.

Excellent season? Laughable because our NCAA ticket isn't punched yet, and one game in the BET vs Seton Hall on Thursday may determine that. But it was a season. That didn't just command our attention during games. On here it was non-stop for most of us from the moment we woke up, throughout the day, and consumed us at night.

I try to avoid picking players apart when they are down. I can barely play chess but know how the pieces move. I had to google which pieces are the most important and finally read a post that explained in depth which pieces were the most powerful and it was explained in tandem (e.g. two knights) and also on exact positions on the board. Basketball players are like that, situationally but also with their own talents and abilities. Throw in human failure and coaching strategy and I know I'm not equipped to judge.

I do kmow that I've met more of you for the first time this season and spent time with you in Charleston. My wife is rooting again after decades lobg absence. And really watching games.. She'll say something that will surpise me, like "That was a moving pick!!" When I wasn't sure before that she knew what a pick was etc.

Rick Pitino blew the lids off the curse of being a Johnnie's fan. It's been like being liberated from a POW camp or from authoritive rule. After decades where wearing St John's gear was decidedly uncool, suddenly my closet is literally filled with sju golf shirts, sweatshirts, ans spring, fall and winter jackets. Suddenly tons of faculty, administrators, and their families are coming to games. Ive made literally dozens of new friends this year.

Our season may end Thursday or we may make a deep ncaa run. We may surprise or fall just short.

Whatever the outcome we are back. This is our school, our program, and our fans are as passionate as anyone's
 
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Well said Beast.

Overall, its been fun seeing the reawakening, even if there were many moments i still wanted to throw a rock at the TV. Good group of players and the last time I was as excited was Mullin's last year..despite all the headwinds with Mullin as coach, and trail off at end of year, watching them sit around and cheer when their name got called was worth it. Here's to hopefully seeing that again next week.
 
Some of you, this year, wrote about Big East championships, final fours and national championships. All I hoped for was to earn a bye on the opening round of the Big East tournament, the dreaded Wednesday games. Seemed out of reach three weeks ago. I think we have a good shot Thursday, and after that, we are playing with house money.
Players and coaches to be congratulated.
 
Somehow our fans knew that the ghost of Gtown was like a badly wounded lion who could rise up a deal a lethal blow to our squad. With about 10 minutes to go in a game where Georgetown came back to take a lead and we answered with a basket or great defensive play, the Garden crowd rose to its feet for entire sequences exhorting the team in unison. Again and again in waves our fans let our guys know this is our house, we weren't outnumbered, and we were there to lift them.
It was awesome to be immersed in that Noise - from the made buckets- to boo-ing the Refs... the fans were in unison with our "reactions"...

I do have to tell Cragg - again - We Need Male Cheerleaders! With Mega-phones- leading the chants. There is absolutely 0 coordination with "pro-active" chants.... the direction the program seems to be heading- fan interest/support - we can create a Real Home Court at MSG...

Red Suit Guy does his part... but he needs help lol
 
It was awesome to be immersed in that Noise - from the made buckets- to boo-ing the Refs... the fans were in unison with our "reactions"...

I do have to tell Cragg - again - We Need Male Cheerleaders! With Mega-phones- leading the chants. There is absolutely 0 coordination with "pro-active" chants.... the direction the program seems to be heading- fan interest/support - we can create a Real Home Court at MSG...

Red Suit Guy does his part... but he needs help lol
They also need to wake up the dorms. Students weren't here until 10 minutes in.
 
The solidifying of our NIL position -- in terms of $, infrastructure (multiple collectives, hiring Matt, etc.) is also a huge development that Pitino deserves a lot of credit for.

We have so much going on for us in the future, that I'll be optimistic for next season & beyond kind of regardless of what happens on the court the rest of the year.
 
My goals for this season were:
Finish in the top 5 of the Big East ✅
Make the BET semifinals
Make the NCAA Tournament
Win an NCAA Tournament game

So far 1/1 with those other three within reach.
Similarly for me, success this year would be finishing top half of Big East, making it to Friday night of BET and making the dance. Winning a game in dance would be gravy this year as I know that will come soon if not this year. Having said that, even if we lose Thursday and miss the dance, I will by no means consider the season a failure. So much to look forward to!
 
Similarly for me, success this year would be finishing top half of Big East, making it to Friday night of BET and making the dance. Winning a game in dance would be gravy this year as I know that will come soon if not this year. Having said that, even if we lose Thursday and miss the dance, I will by no means consider the season a failure. So much to look forward to!
Ditto NC
 
It was awesome to be immersed in that Noise - from the made buckets- to boo-ing the Refs... the fans were in unison with our "reactions"...

I do have to tell Cragg - again - We Need Male Cheerleaders! With Mega-phones- leading the chants. There is absolutely 0 coordination with "pro-active" chants.... the direction the program seems to be heading- fan interest/support - we can create a Real Home Court at MSG...

Red Suit Guy does his part... but he needs help lol
Just for 1 this one game find flag guy and bring him back even if it's for 1 lap before he needs an oxygen tank
 
Great post. That standing ovation at the 10 minute mark was deafening. I don’t remember it being louder in the garden since the sat night seton hall game where Simon dunked off the steal.

That wasn’t just for St. John’s basketball. That was a NYC ovation because we appreciated the season long effort of the group. Proud to be there to see it
 
Regular season grades:

Soriano- ( B)
much maligned, will be sorely missed when gone. Carried us in first half. Stayed here and sometimes only guy underneath fighting for rebounds. If sit under basket as I did yesterday you can really see how much attention and how much he gets grabbed under there. Expected to do most of grunt work and often goes long stretches without touching the ball.
Even with recent struggles still a defensive presence.

Ledlum-(C+)
Struggled in the beginning because tried to do to much. I only saw him a couple times and obviously the comp better but people I know involved with ST Peter’s swear he is carrying too much weight and are shocked by the decrease in athleticism.
Whatever the case, embraced reduced role in the offense and has played very well as of late.

Taylor-(C+)
Maybe should have been more aggressive early on but again with Jenkins so ball dominant early on giving everyone a pass on that. Good defender and solid open three point shooter. Hope he stays next year.

Dingle-(C)
Playing much better. Again some of blame should be on him but the Jenkins show early on makes it hard to judge guys. Good mid range shooter and good athlete. Not great defensively but seems to be putting in better effort.
Three point shot seems to be a bit out of range as every miss is short.
If he plays like he can BET win and maybe tournament win more attainable.

Jenkins-(B)
Playing great.
First half was one of the main reasons we aren’t locked into a 5 or 6 seed in tournament. Either by choice or on coach orders tried to do way too much and his game and virtually everyone on the team suffered.
Scaled back slightly on his shots and tried to get others involved and lo and behold he was more effective and team improved.
Can’t keep quick guards in front of him but not from lack of effort.

Zuby-(B)
Everyone loves the back up. In his case a lot to like but he stays my prediction is he then will get roasted on here in comparison to Soriano next year.
Strong and good athlete but has no low post game and not a good finisher.

Luis-(C+)
Talented but frustrating player. Hope he stays but has to improve his outside shooting, commitment to play D and limit the amount of bad shots he attempts. Along with Dingle the key to any kind of run here.

Alleyne-(C)
Plays D and can knock down jumpers but has sloppy handle and takes bad shots.
I think he too suffered from the Jenkins palooza early on.

Wilcher-(C)
Outside of Billy Donovan showing up in Doc Brown’s Delorean, no backup was going to put a dent in Jenkins mins as long as Pitino is the coach. Uneven mins and usual quick hook is tough way to perform. Like his game and hope he stays.

Dunlap-(D-)
I know “only a Freshman”, but outside of 3 games has been terrible. Forget about stuff he is just not physically capable of doing, he simply can’t knock down WIDE open shots or free throws.

Traore, Conway- both seem like really good kids. Hope neither plays unless up 25 or down 25.

Pitino-(C+)
Grade could change drastically but Jenkins overload early, player regression, odd substitution pattern, insistence on pressing with “laterally slow and unathletic roster”, and whiny petulant rant about players were all things that were unexpected from HOF coach.
Still get us into tournament and grade goes up and he will be in conversation with other ST John’s coaching legends that got us into tournament Brian Mahoney, Steve Lavin and Chris Mullin.
 
Regular season grades:

Soriano- ( B)
much maligned, will be sorely missed when gone. Carried us in first half. Stayed here and sometimes only guy underneath fighting for rebounds. If sit under basket as I did yesterday you can really see how much attention and how much he gets grabbed under there. Expected to do most of grunt work and often goes long stretches without touching the ball.
Even with recent struggles still a defensive presence.

Ledlum-(C+)
Struggled in the beginning because tried to do to much. I only saw him a couple times and obviously the comp better but people I know involved with ST Peter’s swear he is carrying too much weight and are shocked by the decrease in athleticism.
Whatever the case, embraced reduced role in the offense and has played very well as of late.

Taylor-(C+)
Maybe should have been more aggressive early on but again with Jenkins so ball dominant early on giving everyone a pass on that. Good defender and solid open three point shooter. Hope he stays next year.

Dingle-(C)
Playing much better. Again some of blame should be on him but the Jenkins show early on makes it hard to judge guys. Good mid range shooter and good athlete. Not great defensively but seems to be putting in better effort.
Three point shot seems to be a bit out of range as every miss is short.
If he plays like he can BET win and maybe tournament win more attainable.

Jenkins-(B)
Playing great.
First half was one of the main reasons we aren’t locked into a 5 or 6 seed in tournament. Either by choice or on coach orders tried to do way too much and his game and virtually everyone on the team suffered.
Scaled back slightly on his shots and tried to get others involved and lo and behold he was more effective and team improved.
Can’t keep quick guards in front of him but not from lack of effort.

Zuby-(B)
Everyone loves the back up. In his case a lot to like but he stays my prediction is he then will get roasted on here in comparison to Soriano next year.
Strong and good athlete but has no low post game and not a good finisher.

Luis-(C+)
Talented but frustrating player. Hope he stays but has to improve his outside shooting, commitment to play D and limit the amount of bad shots he attempts. Along with Dingle the key to any kind of run here.

Alleyne-(C)
Plays D and can knock down jumpers but has sloppy handle and takes bad shots.
I think he too suffered from the Jenkins palooza early on.

Wilcher-(C)
Outside of Billy Donovan showing up in Doc Brown’s Delorean, no backup was going to put a dent in Jenkins mins as long as Pitino is the coach. Uneven mins and usual quick hook is tough way to perform. Like his game and hope he stays.

Dunlap-(D-)
I know “only a Freshman”, but outside of 3 games has been terrible. Forget about stuff he is just not physically capable of doing, he simply can’t knock down WIDE open shots or free throws.

Traore, Conway- both seem like really good kids. Hope neither plays unless up 25 or down 25.

Pitino-(C+)
Grade could change drastically but Jenkins overload early, player regression, odd substitution pattern, insistence on pressing with “laterally slow and unathletic roster”, and whiny petulant rant about players were all things that were unexpected from HOF coach.
Still get us into tournament and grade goes up and he will be in conversation with other ST John’s coaching legends that got us into tournament Brian Mahoney, Steve Lavin and Chris Mullin.
Tough grader. I would grade Jenkins and Ledlum higher.
 
I suspect Larry Wright had the roster higher rated than most coming into the season. Three B ratings out of twelve players for a team that finished in the top half of a very tough league seems low.
Maybe Pitino is as good as advertised.
 
Regular season grades:

Soriano- ( B)
much maligned, will be sorely missed when gone. Carried us in first half. Stayed here and sometimes only guy underneath fighting for rebounds. If sit under basket as I did yesterday you can really see how much attention and how much he gets grabbed under there. Expected to do most of grunt work and often goes long stretches without touching the ball.
Even with recent struggles still a defensive presence.

Ledlum-(C+)
Struggled in the beginning because tried to do to much. I only saw him a couple times and obviously the comp better but people I know involved with ST Peter’s swear he is carrying too much weight and are shocked by the decrease in athleticism.
Whatever the case, embraced reduced role in the offense and has played very well as of late.

Taylor-(C+)
Maybe should have been more aggressive early on but again with Jenkins so ball dominant early on giving everyone a pass on that. Good defender and solid open three point shooter. Hope he stays next year.

Dingle-(C)
Playing much better. Again some of blame should be on him but the Jenkins show early on makes it hard to judge guys. Good mid range shooter and good athlete. Not great defensively but seems to be putting in better effort.
Three point shot seems to be a bit out of range as every miss is short.
If he plays like he can BET win and maybe tournament win more attainable.

Jenkins-(B)
Playing great.
First half was one of the main reasons we aren’t locked into a 5 or 6 seed in tournament. Either by choice or on coach orders tried to do way too much and his game and virtually everyone on the team suffered.
Scaled back slightly on his shots and tried to get others involved and lo and behold he was more effective and team improved.
Can’t keep quick guards in front of him but not from lack of effort.

Zuby-(B)
Everyone loves the back up. In his case a lot to like but he stays my prediction is he then will get roasted on here in comparison to Soriano next year.
Strong and good athlete but has no low post game and not a good finisher.

Luis-(C+)
Talented but frustrating player. Hope he stays but has to improve his outside shooting, commitment to play D and limit the amount of bad shots he attempts. Along with Dingle the key to any kind of run here.

Alleyne-(C)
Plays D and can knock down jumpers but has sloppy handle and takes bad shots.
I think he too suffered from the Jenkins palooza early on.

Wilcher-(C)
Outside of Billy Donovan showing up in Doc Brown’s Delorean, no backup was going to put a dent in Jenkins mins as long as Pitino is the coach. Uneven mins and usual quick hook is tough way to perform. Like his game and hope he stays.

Dunlap-(D-)
I know “only a Freshman”, but outside of 3 games has been terrible. Forget about stuff he is just not physically capable of doing, he simply can’t knock down WIDE open shots or free throws.

Traore, Conway- both seem like really good kids. Hope neither plays unless up 25 or down 25.

Pitino-(C+)
Grade could change drastically but Jenkins overload early, player regression, odd substitution pattern, insistence on pressing with “laterally slow and unathletic roster”, and whiny petulant rant about players were all things that were unexpected from HOF coach.
Still get us into tournament and grade goes up and he will be in conversation with other ST John’s coaching legends that got us into tournament Brian Mahoney, Steve Lavin and Chris Mullin.
Nice job! I don't recall you grading players with disclaimers for playing with other ball dominant team best player guards. Show, Hatten and Ponds spring to mind but I'm sure there have been others. Why is that?
 
Nice job! I don't recall you grading players with disclaimers for playing with other ball dominant team best player guards. Show, Hatten and Ponds spring to mind but I'm sure there have been others. Why is that
Twofold:
1. Both those guys were better than Jenkins.
2.Neither of those guys played with 3 guys that were all conference the year before and one all Freshman.
 
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