40 Minutes Of "P.U."

[quote="Knight" post=363719]Wow, 4 games into a new season, with a new coaching staff and many new players and there are rats looking to jump off what they perceive as a sinking ship. Relax. Watch things progress or not, then complain or crow.[/quote]

Like it or not this is our fan base and we are out in full season form. Honestly, I am not surprised at all by the reaction of many, it is par for the course. We are truly a mercurial group. A few days ago we were discussing when will CMA win national coach of the year. A few hours after losing a heartbreaker to a team that has won over 80 games the last 3 seasons, has danced consistently and has an all American candidate, after our 3 best players each had a poor evening, we are now discussing how CMA has no clue as to what he is doing. SMH.
 
CMA didnt sit on the scorers table so if anyone was worried about me I'm all good :)
 
Guys, it's a long season. Heron & Figgy are not and will not be our problem. Mustapha had issues last year, injury wise and chemistry wise that he should not have this year. I continue to believe he will have an excellent senior year and love the fact that he is taking the ball hard to the hoop as it will pay off. Despite missing those two foul shots, he is a 75-80% foul shooter so the more we can get him to the line the better. Roberts, Champagnie & Earlington have all been better than expected and Dunn will only get better. The more I see of BE teams the more I think that, other than the Hall, league will be very competitive much like last year and we can beat any of them if we play well.
 
If I had not read Doc Butler's early season diatribe for years, I would have thought this was tongue in cheek. But with all due respect Doc, isn't this a bit of a rush to judgment? Coach K bombed early in his Duke career. The Cavs let Michael Jordan beat them at the buzzer in the deciding game of a playoff series. No double team to keep the ball out of Jordan's hands. The Cavs coach? It was coaching Hall of Famer Lenny Wilkins. How about the time a N.C. team, coached by the legendary Roy Williams, allowed the only guy with the quickness and ball handling skills of Arci to take the inbounds pass,, and alllow an unguarded Big Smooth, the one player who was most likely to beat you deep, hit a wide open shot while every N.C. defender backed up to the foul line or the paint. Experienced teams in the NBA make mistakes, and Hall of Fame coaches do too. That's just the way it is.

CMA is dealing with an undersized, somewhat inexperienced team trying to learn a system that is foreign to them in several short months. Figgy and Heron are 2 nice players, but are better off the ball and don't seem that suited to creating their own shots or taking over a game like Ponds was. Vermont is a decent and experienced team with a pre season honorable mention AA. Still, with halfway decent foul shooting and respectable play by our 2 best players, this would have been a comfortable win.
 
Good observation, Al. Your're right. I remember yelling at the screen...."don't foul Lamb...don't foul Lamb"....and then we go and foul Lamb. It's really not rocket science!
 
All good and valid points, Jack. Hope you are doing well. I suppose my analysis may seem a rush to judgement. It's gonna be what it is, whatever I think. I simply don't believe we have the horses to run the Kentucky Derby. From where I stand, this coach is trying to paint a portrait in oils with crayons. Hell, I can easily be wrong and hope very much that you are right. I'll try to remember to acknowledge my errors if I'm wrong.
 
[quote="docbutler" post=363729]Good observation, Al. Your're right. I remember yelling at the screen...."don't foul Lamb...don't foul Lamb"....and then we go and foul Lamb. It's really not rocket science![/quote]

lmao Doc, I'm a miserable loser, you'll never mistaken me for Oscar Delahoya who would get his face beat in then smile at and hand shake the guy who beat his ass.
But the reality is Doc, you gotta give cma time, like we did Lavin & Mullin, I'm not saying the end result will be any different, just saying you gotta give the man time.
 
Exactly what is under-analysis? C'mon MCNPA....discussion and speculation is what this site is all about. We all call it as we see it. If you don't care for analysis and opinion, please don't read my stuff. But I'll continue to read what you think without criticizing you. Certainly no one is wrong or right at this point of the season.
 
Guitar Man Wrote "When you get right down to it, the outcome of this poorly played game boiled down to the "no show" of our three leading scorers. This team is completely dependent on the play of Heron and Figueroa...and to some extent, now Dunn. Those three players combined for a collective 11 for 36 last night. That's 30%! If we can look forward to a repeat of those kind of stats, we are in for a very long season. However, there is far more to it than that. From where I stand, "40 Minutes of Hell" looked more like "40 Minutes of Bad Defense". I am totally unimpressed with Anderson as a tactician."

You should have stopped after your first sentence.;)
Were you totally unimpressed with coach after his first 3 games or just this one sticks out to you? Because you are the first fan here not to see that he is actively coaching during games. Unlike our last coach who couldn't coach his team out of a paper bag and needed a proxy during time outs, CMA can be seen designing plays. Unfortunately players returning from the last coaching experiment fiasco may need some rehab to recover from coaching malpractice. Heron especially.
Going back to your first sentence a blind man could see that our two 2nd team All Big East players could not find the basket for the ocean and were both shellshocked from playing against a more talented player in Lamb. Coach Anderson even directly hinted to Figueroa that he should get his head out of his ass and deny Lamb.
Neither he nor Heron seemed intent to play hard tight defense and both took hero ball drives and floaters rather than play smart basketball.
Dunn played within himself and took shots he shouldn't since Vermont was playing excellent defense against both Heron and Figueroa but at least he didn't bobble the ball like Williams and lose his man like Rutherford who was relegated to the bench. At one point coach sat most starters to impart some discipline but bad habits learned under bad coaches are hard to break.
Finally, I know that you try to get things off your chest early in the season but we gave Chris Mullin 3 years for delegating "tactics" to a twenty something. Some blind Mullin loyalists will likely agree with your post but please keep your guitar picking fingers off coach this first season because we were left with a trainwreck by the previous coach imposters who stole four years of our lives.
 
Last edited:
I remember all those posts last year about how bad Earlington was... not big east caliber....undersized....etc....yet you were all wrong....so I will not judge iron Mike as I didn't Chris.....go st johns....
 
Dear Class of 72....I'll be sure to keep my guitar picking fingers off of coach in perpetuity...I promise. I spent serious time thinking about what I saw last night and gave an honest breakdown of my opinion for this Redmen.com membership to read and evaluate. In all honesty, I believe it was accurate. I had hoped that most people might have enjoyed it...agreed or disagreed...and added their own thoughts. Instead I was met with a wall of insolent and sometimes outright disrespectful behavior. I've been around this game for over 65 years. I think I know a little bit. I could seriously call Joe Lapchick, Lou Carnesecca, and a ton of St. John's players and dignitaries a friend. I have been posting here on Redmen .com for many years now. Until now, I've never felt like an unappreciated outcast. I don't come here to be demeaned, I don't come here to be called a "rat", I don't come here to be told where my post should have stopped, and I don't come here to be told I don't know what I am talking about. I truly wish every one
of you well. But you will never again see me wasting my time posting for unappreciative people on this site. You don't need me...so many of you know all the answers already!!!!!! Be well/Doc
 
[quote="AlBovino" post=363695]Agree with Doc Butler's analysis. Something else that I don't think anyone has mentioned. With 28 seconds remaining and Vermont in bounding the ball, we immediately foul an 82% free throw shooter. We should have pressured him into passing the ball and then fouled the recipient of the pass. There was plenty of time left in the game and there was no need to foul the first person who received the in bounds pass.[/quote]

Vermont had 4 players that last season averaged 75 to 88 percent free throw shooting ready to receive the ball. Whom, of those players, would you have fouled?
The point was to immediately foul to regain possession since we were down 1 point and have time left on the clock to run a play which we did.
You omitted the the most important St. John's shot of the game when Dunn hit a 3 pointer to finally tie the game because we had enough time to run a play!
Had Figueroa and Heron guarded Lamb better we win this game. Had Heron not drove wildly to get bitch slapped by bigger Vermont players we win this game. Had Williams not committed 2 unforced turnovers we win this game.
The players not executing was the player's fault and not the coaches as Doc wrongly implied. Those players were accustomed to a free form offense 5 out system that had anyone taking shots and playing lose defense. Bad habits are hard to break. The loss in this case was not on the coaches.
 
Last edited:
[quote="docbutler" post=363736]Dear Class of 72....I'll be sure to keep my guitar picking fingers off of coach in perpetuity...I promise. I spent serious time thinking about what I saw last night and gave an honest breakdown of my opinion for this Redmen.com membership to read and evaluate. In all honesty, I believe it was accurate. I had hoped that most people might have enjoyed it...agreed or disagreed...and added their own thoughts. Instead I was met with a wall of insolent and sometimes outright disrespectful behavior. I've been around this game for over 65 years. I think I know a little bit. I could seriously call Joe Lapchick, Lou Carnesecca, and a ton of St. John's players and dignitaries a friend. I have been posting here on Redmen .com for many years now. Until now, I've never felt like an unappreciated outcast. I don't come here to be demeaned, I don't come here to be called a "rat", I don't come here to be told where my post should have stopped, and I don't come here to be told I don't know what I am talking about. I truly wish every one
of you well. But you will never again see me wasting my time posting for unappreciative people on this site. You don't need me...so many of you know all the answers already!!!!!! Be well/Doc[/quote]

Doc, you sound like the artist that thinks no one appreciates his art.:unsure: :(
No one called you a rat. We appreciate your commentary.
What exactly did you find demeaning, insolent, disrespectful or make you feel like an outcast????
I gave you a wink after your first sentence because, simply put, THAT was the reason we lost.
Not because coach Mike is a poor tactician. Did you see the first 3 games??
Not one fan here implied he was a poor tactician after those 3 games. He has new players to integrate into a new system and older returning players who played without a system. Heron has played two stinkers in a row. Dunn was playing his first game in a year. Julian is a FRESHMAN. Steere is on the bench. You brazenly titled the thread 60 minutes of PU. There are only 40 minutes in a game.;)
Finally, CMA didn't play 40 minutes of hell at Arkansas so why would we expect that here? The PR sound bites of "40 minutes of hell " sounds great but he knows he doesn't have the players to play that game for 40 minutes. He even alluded to that in his pressers.
There are still folks out there smarting over Mullin walking away from the job or Cluess not getting the job or whatever that will make them quick to criticize coach Anderson but knocking him after 4 games is a bit much.
My only concern with CMA is whether he can land a marquis player to fill the seats on the level of a Jakarr Sampson or Shamorie Ponds. Posh Alexander and Vince Cole, along with Wusu and Dunn and hopefully McGriff will give us an exciting backcourt next season. Julian is a keeper. Getting a quality front court player to play with Roberts and Steere will be a priority. IMO, we lose one or two underperforming players to transfer. Year two of the Mike Anderson era will not resemble year two of the Mullin era. That I am pretty certain of.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=363738][quote="AlBovino" post=363695]Agree with Doc Butler's analysis. Something else that I don't think anyone has mentioned. With 28 seconds remaining and Vermont in bounding the ball, we immediately foul an 82% free throw shooter. We should have pressured him into passing the ball and then fouled the recipient of the pass. There was plenty of time left in the game and there was no need to foul the first person who received the in bounds pass.[/quote]

Vermont had 4 players that last season averaged 75 to 88 percent free throw shooting ready to receive the ball. Whom, of those players, would you have fouled?
The point was to immediately foul to regain possession since we were down 1 point and have time left on the clock to run a play which we did.
You omitted the the most important St. John's shot of the game when Dunn hit a 3 pointer to finally tie the game because we had enough time to run a play!
Had Figueroa and Heron guarded Lamb better we win this game. Had Heron not drove wildly to get bitch slapped by bigger Vermont players we win this game. Had Williams not committed 2 unforced turnovers we win this game.
The players not executing was the player's fault and not the coaches as Doc wrongly implied. Those players were accustomed to a free form offense 5 out system that had anyone taking shots and playing lose defense. Bad habits are hard to break. The loss in this case was not on the coaches.[/quote]

Just to clarify it was Everett Duncan and not Lamb that was fouled by LJ when we were down 1 with 28 seconds left. At that point you are trying to extend the game, however in this case we were coming out of a timeout and there were two better options to foul on the court including the point guard Stef Smith who had just missed the front end of the of a 1 and 1 and was shooting 67% this season coming into the game or Everett's brother Robin who missed two free throws earlier in the game and was shooting under 45% coming into the game. So I would have given it one more pass went for a steal and hoped one of those two gets the ball. It's a minor point and I can't argue with the immediate foul but that was my immediate reaction at that point. I have no way to know hat the outcome would have been and would never expected Dunn to nail that shot.
 
Last edited:
[quote="docbutler" post=363736]Dear Class of 72....I'll be sure to keep my guitar picking fingers off of coach in perpetuity...I promise. I spent serious time thinking about what I saw last night and gave an honest breakdown of my opinion for this Redmen.com membership to read and evaluate. In all honesty, I believe it was accurate. I had hoped that most people might have enjoyed it...agreed or disagreed...and added their own thoughts. Instead I was met with a wall of insolent and sometimes outright disrespectful behavior. I've been around this game for over 65 years. I think I know a little bit. I could seriously call Joe Lapchick, Lou Carnesecca, and a ton of St. John's players and dignitaries a friend. I have been posting here on Redmen .com for many years now. Until now, I've never felt like an unappreciated outcast. I don't come here to be demeaned, I don't come here to be called a "rat", I don't come here to be told where my post should have stopped, and I don't come here to be told I don't know what I am talking about. I truly wish every one
of you well. But you will never again see me wasting my time posting for unappreciative people on this site. You don't need me...so many of you know all the answers already!!!!!! Be well/Doc[/quote]

Let me pile on, for you to spend “serious time thinking” and draw conclusions about a 17 year successful coach at 3 destinations 4 games into his tenure and anoint us with your annual War and Peace posts isn’t an “honest breakdown” IMO, but just another egomaniacal self-stroking post. I don’t care if you knew James Naismith, if you knew anything about anything, you would know it is WAY too early for judgement. I suggest you go to the Duke board and let everyone know what a horrible coach K is for not having Zion Williamson touch the ball in the last four minutes of their NCAA loss last year. A basketball season is a marathon and $hit happens to every team. Objective non-agenda driven people understand that.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=363716]Ah yes, this post.
In its own thread.
Always.
Like clockwork.
2,000 word single block on the genius of Buck Freeman to follow.[/quote]

Well not 'always'.
Just after those benchmark losses
 
That first post in this thread is such a joke. And luckily we didn't lose one of the previous 3 games otherwise there would have been 10 more threads like this one. Had we lost to one of the first 3 then I could understand the rant more clearly.
 
Last edited:
Doc, you are correct on all accounts. Six assists in a game is a disgrace and there is no question that Lamb should have been denied the ball alot sooner including the final play.

However it is difficult to blame a new coach entirely for the failing of his players Saturday. The coach did not miss all those shots 12 of them including heron missing a key two late in the game. Heron also should have been on top of lamb on the last play and got there late.

I have to credit the effort of the team to stage that last minute comback and I do like the the energy of the team. The clock management at the end made the comback possible.I know we are going to lose alot of games this year but the key to this season is to establish a positive philosophy and tone so that we are able to recruit players.

Lets give our new coach a shot. If we get down on him now, this program will never survive. I htink we could have someting special here if we give it a shot. Rome was not built in a day and it will take time to recover from the Mullin years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top