@Xavier, Wed., Jan. 31, 6:30p, FS-1

[Marillac2]

Agree that was a horrible decision at that point in the game. But if you believe that is the play that lost us this game, you were obviously asleep during the rest of the game.

We had no business being only 2 pts down there so whatever happened prior is almost completely irrelevant.

Maybe we still lose, but the only play to make there is to force it Soriano and win or lose with what he does against an overmatched backup he was eating alive.

Nahiem Alleyne won us the Rutgers scrimmage and has hit some of the biggest buzzer beaters of anyone still playing in the country and he’s not even a consideration.

 

[dk423]

We had no business being only 2 pts down there so whatever happened prior is almost completely irrelevant.

Maybe we still lose, but the only play to make there is to force it Soriano and win or lose with what he does against an overmatched backup he was eating alive.

Nahiem Alleyne won us the Rutgers scrimmage and has hit some of the biggest buzzer beaters of anyone still playing in the country and he’s not even a consideration.

Alleyne and Taylor made big plays against West Virginia if I remember correctly

 

[Money]

We had no business being only 2 pts down there so whatever happened prior is almost completely irrelevant.

Maybe we still lose, but the only play to make there is to force it Soriano and win or lose with what he does against an overmatched backup he was eating alive.

Nahiem Alleyne won us the Rutgers scrimmage and has hit some of the biggest buzzer beaters of anyone still playing in the country and he’s not even a consideration.

Either every play is relevant or every play is irrelevant... Can't have it both ways by saying one play cost us game, but none of the others prior matter, just ridiculous.

You're the guy who blames the kicker for missing the last second field goal, and ignore the 3 fumbles and 2 interceptions, etc, etc. prior to the kick...

 

[Bobby123]

While you may be right, if our fans accept that, then they may have to accept the fact that a Dance invite may not be realistic with this talent level and I for one want to keep hope alive.

Remember, Dingle as well as Ledlum were highly sort after transfers by many programs not just Pitino. Our poster 79 even stated that compared to other recruits we were after Dingle “was on another level” and would be a tremendous get. That does not seem to translate into backup caliber Big East player.

Agreed. He may be a player that is used being out there for 35 minutes. I would be curious if we just played him a game to see what happens.
With some point as well

 

[jackfro]

For the most part, and Nova being the exception, they haven’t exactly been making the trip to the Garden either. And those giveaway tickets at CA helps also.

Think you are wrong. I believe at this stage of the season the Garden attendance is way better than previous years at the same stage. It is the Mecca in the Big Apple. Elmont NY?

 

[dk423]

Think you are wrong. I believe at this stage of the season the Garden attendance is way better than previous years at the same stage. It is the Mecca in the Big Apple. Elmont NY?

Agree, marquette was a great turnout.

 

[Marillac2]

Either every play is relevant or every play is irrelevant... Can't have it both ways by saying one play cost us game, but none of the others prior matter, just ridiculous.

You're the guy who blames the kicker for missing the last second field goal, and ignore the 3 fumbles and 2 interceptions, etc, etc. prior to the kick.

I read this in a Reese Bobby accent.

 

[mbraue]

Most of us are supportive of SH. I grew up a fan of both teams and Terry Dehere was my favorite player as a kid.

Why wouldn't we support both local teams? I've enjoyed St. John's fans at the Prudential over the years. Generally very respectful and knowledgeable. Catholic schools with some civility, unlike UConn. In fairness, I've never been to Storrs for a game.

Obviously Hurley is one of our own - he met his wife at SHU. Gotta love his story of redemption after Bobby grabbed all the accolades in college.

I do think Danny was on the SHU team that torched Cuse in the BE tourney years ago. This was our largest margin of victory until the other night when we scorched DePaul.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Why wouldn't we support both local teams? I've enjoyed St. John's fans at the Prudential over the years. Generally very respectful and knowledgeable. Catholic schools with some civility, unlike UConn. In fairness, I've never been to Storrs for a game.

Obviously Hurley is one of our own - he met his wife at SHU. Gotta love his story of redemption after Bobby grabbed all the accolades in college.

I do think Danny was on the SHU team that torched Cuse in the BE tourney years ago. This was our largest margin of victory until the other night when we scorched DePaul.

Jeez say something nasty about us before we start liking your posts

 

[mbraue]

You just happen to materialize on this board after we suffer a crucial loss. Keep it classy, Seton Hall Fan.

Not at all. A good friend who is a SJ grad recommended I check out the site. Been hooked on Big East basketball back to the days of getting Big East Briefs in the mail.

Very knowledgeable fans in these parts, and fun to read their insights. Zach Braziller and Jerry Carino (our Gannett version) can only feed us so much info.

 

[SJUDave]

Frustrating loss. We are fired up and ticked off, as we recap the poor first 30 minutes, why St. John's wasn't ready after a week off, why didn't Pitino call off the press or play more zone? The bench was M.I.A., and the warts that are popping up with this team that are seemingly not going away

 

[monte]

w

There's only one basketball, Monte. And the secret to success is sharing it in order to optimize the TEAM's opportunities.

LMF not sure if you're implying that Jenkins and Soriano were being ball hogs. In Soriano's case, he's not enough of a ball hog. In Jenkins' case, he was on fire and kept us in the game.
There's really only one player on this team who, once he touches the ball, usually doesn't give it up, and we all know who he is.

 

[logen]

w

LMF not sure if you're implying that Jenkins and Soriano were being ball hogs. In Soriano's case, he's not enough of a ball hog. In Jenkins' case, he was on fire and kept us in the game.
There's really only one player on this team who, once he touches the ball, usually doesn't give it up, and we all know who he is.

Just comical to me the criticism of Jenkins, as I have posted before, we are DePaul without him. Symptom of a long suffering fan base that the one player who has almost single-handedly kept us in the middle of the pack in the BE is the most criticized player. The ONLY player on the team who can create and the amount of posts criticizing a good shot he had the audacity to miss after keeping us in the game almost single-handedly (and yes, I know Soriano decided to come to play in the 2nd half), just speaks volumes about some of this fan base.

 

[monte]

Just comical to me the criticism of Jenkins, as I have posted before, we are DePaul without him. Symptom of a long suffering fan base that the one player who has almost single-handedly kept us in the middle of the pack in the BE is the most criticized player. The ONLY player on the team who can create and the amount of posts criticizing a good shot he had the audacity to miss after keeping us in the game almost single-handedly (and yes, I know Soriano decided to come to play in the 2nd half), just speaks volumes about some of this fan base.

Agree with all Logen, but in fairness to LMF, I'm not 100% sure that's what he was implying. Which is why I asked him to clarify his post.

 

[logen]

Understood, and maybe my bad using your post to respond to. My comment was more motivated by the complete over-emphasis on one missed shot in a game where everyone BUT Jenkins gave less than full effort the entire time they were on the court, including Soriano.
One thing I didn’t think would be an issue with Pitino was effort and I am not putting it on him at all. Players play (or not); unfortunately, too often this year it has been not.
All these players ostensibly came here for the opportunity to play for Pitino and learn from him, yet they seem to ignore the biggest lesson of all, play hard for 40 minutes.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

We had no business being only 2 pts down there so whatever happened prior is almost completely irrelevant.

Maybe we still lose, but the only play to make there is to force it Soriano and win or lose with what he does against an overmatched backup he was eating alive.

Nahiem Alleyne won us the Rutgers scrimmage and has hit some of the biggest buzzer beaters of anyone still playing in the country and he’s not even a consideration.

Alleyne still looked a little hobbled to me . Some lingering effects of the Ankle sprain no doubt .
He wasn’t 100 percent to me . Hence is he the guy you want shooting at that point , given that ?
To me , it wasn’t our cold offense in the last 2 minutes that lost the game . It was the defense .
13-2 X run at last 2 minutes , 37 seconds was a Team defensive collapse . Plus , Olivari is a great 3 point shooter . .

Does anyone think we were capable of matching that 13-2 run by them at that point in the game ? Not likely .

And , because of the D breakdown, we were forced to put up a lot of desperate shots .

As a team , we are missing a lot of pieces . No real and consistent 3 point shooter , like Olivari.
No Guard or Sf that is quick enough to get to the rim . Luis can but , has not played well consistently . And , he’s awful on Defense . RP has little confidence in him .A legitimate sized BE PF . Ledlum plays hard but , is under sized and not quick . Dingle is a disappointment .
He’s a defensive liability and not been as advertised . Those thinking he should be shooting more and scoring are dreaming .
It’s not happening .

Late Defensive lapses caused this loss , after we fought back from the deficits early .

 

[Marillac2]

Alleyne still looked a little hobbled to me . Some lingering effects of the Ankle sprain no doubt .
He wasn’t 100 percent to me . Hence is he the guy you want shooting at that point , given that ?
To me , it wasn’t our cold offense in the last 2 minutes that lost the game . It was the defense .
13-2 X run at last 2 minutes , 37 seconds was a Team defensive collapse . Plus , Olivari is a great 3 point shooter . .

Does anyone think we were capable of matching that 13-2 run by them at that point in the game ? Not likely .

And , because of the D breakdown, we were forced to put up a lot of desperate shots .

As a team , we are missing a lot of pieces . No real and consistent 3 point shooter , like Olivari.
No Guard or Sf that is quick enough to get to the rim . Luis can but , has not played well consistently . And , he’s awful on Defense . RP has little confidence in him .A legitimate sized BE PF . Ledlum plays hard but , is under sized and not quick . Dingle is a disappointment .
He’s a defensive liability and not been as advertised . Those thinking he should be shooting more and scoring are dreaming .
It’s not happening .

Late Defensive lapses caused this loss , after we fought back from the deficits early .

No, the only player that should have shot inside 3 minutes is Soriano.

The single last player I want shooting is Jenkins. Alleyne has accomplished things Jenkins is not capable of as a basketball player including hitting huge buzzer beaters like against Florida in the NCAA tournament.

In January alone, Jenkins missed jumpers on back to back possessions down 1 to Creighton (and missed a vital rebound between the two misses) inside 1 minute. He missed the game winning shot at the buzzer against Marquette after being eaten alive on defense in the second half. He missed the pivotal shot when it was 77-75 against Xavier and then let up back to back 3’s to Olivari and had a rebound go through his arms and hit him in the face.

How many more games are you willing to lose with Jenkins taking a jumper at the buzzer or pivotal moment knowing that drawing a foul is something he simply will not do?

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

No, the only player that should have shot inside 3 minutes is Soriano.

The single last player I want shooting is Jenkins. Alleyne has accomplished things Jenkins is not capable of as a basketball player including hitting huge buzzer beaters like against Florida in the NCAA tournament.

In January alone, Jenkins missed jumpers on back to back possessions down 1 to Creighton (and missed a vital rebound between the two misses) inside 1 minute. He missed the game winning shot at the buzzer against Marquette after being eaten alive on defense in the second half. He missed the pivotal shot when it was 77-75 against Xavier and then let up back to back 3’s to Olivari and had a rebound go through his arms and hit him in the face.

How many more games are you willing to lose with Jenkins taking a jumper at the buzzer or pivotal moment knowing that drawing a foul is something he simply will not do?

Jenkins despite your constant attack on him , didn’t lose this game .

Late in the game , you must think getting the ball into Soriano was a given . Even without Ousame in the game , Soriano was being double teamed .
Even early in this game or any game , Soriano has to work real hard to get open . He posts up low a lot and they front him when he does . Hence , trying to get the ball to him over the top of defenders often doesn’t work. Plus , as others have pointed out , Joel doesn’t have great hands . He loses the ball a lot off his fingertips .
And , he is not quick of feet . He doesn’t have a lot of moves around the basket .

You kind of forget that X knows we are trying to get the ball to him in the late minutes and they defend it vigorously , even without Ousmame . You make it seem like it’s automatic to get the ball to him . It isn’t . He also takes a lot of time , once he gets the ball to advance to the basket .
Plus , he isn’t automatic at the foul line either . You seem to think he is .

For those who think having David Jones here was going to change our season are fantasizing .
Pitino would be beserk with David taking 24 shots a game , with little concept of passing the ball . Penny seems ok with that but , how about the other players ? Memphis is struggling of late anyway .
Storr was offered the chance to stay and didn’t . He was planning to leave anyway .

RP knows a lot more basketball than all of us here on the site . He put the ball in Jenkins hands all season . Daniss has put up numbers in all stats all season .

I think the Player that RP wanted the most was Clayton jr . The duo of Clayton and Jenkins was his Batman and Robin and he wanted both .

Jenkins , without Clayton , has had to do it alone . Pitino wanted both of them here .

It’s Abbott without Costello .. Hardy without Laurel . ,

Marillac without the Hall .

 

[lawmanfan]

Agree with all Logen, but in fairness to LMF, I'm not 100% sure that's what he was implying. Which is why I asked him to clarify his post.

My response to Monte's post was simply saying that you can't complain that nobody else performed when nobody else got the ball. Jenkins and Soriano took as many shots as everyone else combined. If you take out RJ Luis bonehead plays they took almost a third more shots than the other 10 guys who played. So you can't say that nobody else contributed as a scorer when really nobody else got the ball. There's only one ball, everyone can't shoot at the same time. To some extent it's a zero sum game - if one guy takes a shot, then that takes away an opportunity for someone else to take a shot.

More broadly, my view is that the object of the game of basketball is to take high percentage shots and to prevent your opponent from taking high percentage shots. The way you take high percentage shots is that you move either the ball or the players or both to find your best opportunity. It's a team game, on both ends of the floor.

When you have a scenario in which two players take as many shots as the rest of the team COMBINED (and 10 or 11 other guys played), then in my opinion there are two possibilities: the other team did an amazing job of taking away every other opportunity you might have had, or you failed as a basketball team. Or both.

Where you assign the blame for that (and there may be no blame if you don't subscribe to The LMF Theory of Ball) is open for discussion. I personally believe that there are productive offensive players on this team who have been underutilized by the design of the offense (i.e. coaching) and by the fact that there's no point guard (more recruiting than coaching, but some coaching). So the offense is the stagnant creature that it is, and it is overreliant on a few players. Really it reminds me of when I coached grade school basketball and for most teams the offense was one kid set a pick and the other kid run off it; nobody else ever got to touch the ball.

I happen to disagree that the team would fall apart without Jenkins running the show. I suspect that instead what would happen is that the staff would be forced to run the offense differently, distribute the ball differently, and utilize the players on the roster differently. Whether that would (this year) wind up as a net plus or a net minus I don't know. I just think that Jenkins is a Pitino security blanket - he knows what he's going to get wtih Jenkins, and he's not inclined to try doing anything else this year. Next year he will have to do something else and then we shall see.

 

[logen]

My response to Monte's post was simply saying that you can't complain that nobody else performed when nobody else got the ball. Jenkins and Soriano took as many shots as everyone else combined. If you take out RJ Luis bonehead plays they took almost a third more shots than the other 10 guys who played. So you can't say that nobody else contributed as a scorer when really nobody else got the ball. There's only one ball, everyone can't shoot at the same time. To some extent it's a zero sum game - if one guy takes a shot, then that takes away an opportunity for someone else to take a shot.

More broadly, my view is that the object of the game of basketball is to take high percentage shots and to prevent your opponent from taking high percentage shots. The way you take high percentage shots is that you move either the ball or the players or both to find your best opportunity. It's a team game, on both ends of the floor.

When you have a scenario in which two players take as many shots as the rest of the team COMBINED (and 10 or 11 other guys played), then in my opinion there are two possibilities: the other team did an amazing job of taking away every other opportunity you might have had, or you failed as a basketball team. Or both.

Where you assign the blame for that (and there may be no blame if you don't subscribe to The LMF Theory of Ball) is open for discussion. I personally believe that there are productive offensive players on this team who have been underutilized by the design of the offense (i.e. coaching) and by the fact that there's no point guard (more recruiting than coaching, but some coaching). So the offense is the stagnant creature that it is, and it is overreliant on a few players. Really it reminds me of when I coached grade school basketball and for most teams the offense was one kid set a pick and the other kid run off it; nobody else ever got to touch the ball.

I happen to disagree that the team would fall apart without Jenkins running the show. I suspect that instead what would happen is that the staff would be forced to run the offense differently, distribute the ball differently, and utilize the players on the roster differently. Whether that would (this year) wind up as a net plus or a net minus I don't know. I just think that Jenkins is a Pitino security blanket - he knows what he's going to get wtih Jenkins, and he's not inclined to try doing anything else this year. Next year he will have to do something else and then we shall see.

You act like Jenkins doesn’t pass yet he averages 5.5 assists. And maybe the other players aren’t getting shots because they can’t; who else on the team can create a shot? You act like no one else on the team touches the ball, which is nonsense. Jenkins averages .42 shots per minute played, Dingle .38, Luis .47, Soriano .34, Alleyne .33, Ledlum .30; he has 117 assists, the next highest Johnnie is Ledlum with 35. Jenkins averages .18 assists per minute, Wilcher is next at .12, Alleyne, Dingle, Ledlum and Luis, all at or below .06. Add in the fact that Jenkins is the ONLY player on the team that can create a good shot on his own and IMO, the idea that he is some kind of out of control gunner is just ridiculous.