Would lavin have been more successful w/ Gempesaw?

[lawmanfan]

University president had no bearing on the drive or laziness of the staff and the lack of bench. lazy is as lazy does.

Oh it absolutely has a bearing on the drive of the staff. When you are treated as a 2nd rate program, you will act and coach as a 2nd rate program.

Still not understanding your theory here. Lavin was paid a salary consistent with a high D1 program. His assistants were paid as well as any assistants anywhere. He was given carte blanche to travel the world or the country or wherever he wanted to recruit.

The only reason the program was a "2nd rate program" was because that was the limit of Lavin's motivation/ability.

It isn't the job of the university president to micromanage the basketball coach and kick him in the rear end to motivate him. If you are the university president and you have a basketball coach who needs that, then the correct course of action is to fire him and replace him with somebody who actually wants to do the job.

Now, I wouldn't argue with you if you were to say that St. J has a structural problem in that it does not have an athletic director with the authority or ability to manage the entire department and all of the coaches and programs, including the flagship basketball program. It would theoretically be that person's job to do some management of the basketball coach. However, if the coach was someone who really needed supervision, you would still need a new coach.

In short, Lavin's ability to be successful (or lack thereof) had exactly zero to do with St. John's and everything to do with Lavin. Anything else is just noise.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

University president had no bearing on the drive or laziness of the staff and the lack of bench. lazy is as lazy does.

Oh it absolutely has a bearing on the drive of the staff. When you are treated as a 2nd rate program, you will act and coach as a 2nd rate program.

Still not understanding your theory here. Lavin was paid a salary consistent with a high D1 program. His assistants were paid as well as any assistants anywhere. He was given carte blanche to travel the world or the country or wherever he wanted to recruit.

The only reason the program was a "2nd rate program" was because that was the limit of Lavin's motivation/ability.

It isn't the job of the university president to micromanage the basketball coach and kick him in the rear end to motivate him. If you are the university president and you have a basketball coach who needs that, then the correct course of action is to fire him and replace him with somebody who actually wants to do the job.

Now, I wouldn't argue with you if you were to say that St. J has a structural problem in that it does not have an athletic director with the authority or ability to manage the entire department and all of the coaches and programs, including the flagship basketball program. It would theoretically be that person's job to do some management of the basketball coach. However, if the coach was someone who really needed supervision, you would still need a new coach.

In short, Lavin's ability to be successful (or lack thereof) had exactly zero to do with St. John's and everything to do with Lavin. Anything else is just noise.

If you really believe that Lavin had the full support of this university, this athletic department, and this fan base, then I would encourage you to share with me whatever you are smoking....

 

[bamafan]

Jumbo-he did at the beginning and not at the end (deservedly so).

 

[L J S A]

Whoopee! Another Lavin thread.

This one may be the worst though. :lol:

 

[paultzman]

Whoopee! Another Lavin thread.

This one may be the worst though. :lol:

Senseless nonsense

 

[Storm Tracker]

Whoopee! Another Lavin thread.

This one may be the worst though. :lol:

Senseless nonsense

Yes, i hate this thread! i dont care about what Lavin could have done under a different president. my guess is NOTHING different. Embrace Mullin mania and let the past go!

 

[salty dog]

University president had no bearing on the drive or laziness of the staff and the lack of bench. lazy is as lazy does.

Oh it absolutely has a bearing on the drive of the staff. When you are treated as a 2nd rate program, you will act and coach as a 2nd rate program.

Still not understanding your theory here. Lavin was paid a salary consistent with a high D1 program. His assistants were paid as well as any assistants anywhere. He was given carte blanche to travel the world or the country or wherever he wanted to recruit.

The only reason the program was a "2nd rate program" was because that was the limit of Lavin's motivation/ability.

It isn't the job of the university president to micromanage the basketball coach and kick him in the rear end to motivate him. If you are the university president and you have a basketball coach who needs that, then the correct course of action is to fire him and replace him with somebody who actually wants to do the job.

Now, I wouldn't argue with you if you were to say that St. J has a structural problem in that it does not have an athletic director with the authority or ability to manage the entire department and all of the coaches and programs, including the flagship basketball program. It would theoretically be that person's job to do some management of the basketball coach. However, if the coach was someone who really needed supervision, you would still need a new coach.

In short, Lavin's ability to be successful (or lack thereof) had exactly zero to do with St. John's and everything to do with Lavin. Anything else is just noise.

good to see the usual suspects thanking you on this.
redmannorth, otis, capmaker, bamafan, Desco80. Nothing changes.

 

[beast of the east]

Gempeshaw coming earlier would have no impact on Lavin. University presidents don't monitor the work ethic of a coach, only W's and L's.

I've been thinking about our coaches post Carnesecca. Each got a substantial bump in pay. Only one was hungry enough to want more, and he (Fraschilla) was the only one who left his successor with a lot of talent.

Mahoney got a huge bump in pay, went out and built a new house, had some early success in wins and recruiting, and then faded rapidly.

Jarvis got a huge bump in pay, and by the end announced that he wasn't recruiting NYC and W's and L's didn't matter to him because he was a teacher.

Roberts soft soaped every loss, and celebrated wins against low D1 competition as significant. He got a huge bump in pay after being a career assistant.

Lavin seemed very comfortable with the limited success we had here, and didn't appear to be hungry to make us a top 20 program. He was also rewarded at close to $2 million per year.

Although the returns are early, Mullin, who comes in having earned somewhere in the vicinity of $40 million as a pro, and a significant salary as an NBA executive, seems to have taken this program by storm. (I like that as a team slogan "Taken by Storm". I don't think that money motivates him very much at all, or that he's ever slacked off because of it. The real deal so far.

In a few weeks, Mullin has given Lavin detractors all the validation they need that Lavin just wasn't aggressive enough in rebuilding this program.

 

[bamafan]

University president had no bearing on the drive or laziness of the staff and the lack of bench. lazy is as lazy does.

Oh it absolutely has a bearing on the drive of the staff. When you are treated as a 2nd rate program, you will act and coach as a 2nd rate program.

Still not understanding your theory here. Lavin was paid a salary consistent with a high D1 program. His assistants were paid as well as any assistants anywhere. He was given carte blanche to travel the world or the country or wherever he wanted to recruit.

The only reason the program was a "2nd rate program" was because that was the limit of Lavin's motivation/ability.

It isn't the job of the university president to micromanage the basketball coach and kick him in the rear end to motivate him. If you are the university president and you have a basketball coach who needs that, then the correct course of action is to fire him and replace him with somebody who actually wants to do the job.

Now, I wouldn't argue with you if you were to say that St. J has a structural problem in that it does not have an athletic director with the authority or ability to manage the entire department and all of the coaches and programs, including the flagship basketball program. It would theoretically be that person's job to do some management of the basketball coach. However, if the coach was someone who really needed supervision, you would still need a new coach.

In short, Lavin's ability to be successful (or lack thereof) had exactly zero to do with St. John's and everything to do with Lavin. Anything else is just noise.

good to see the usual suspects thanking you on this.
redmannorth, otis, capmaker, bamafan, Desco80. Nothing changes.

Likewise good to see the defenders continue to complain about the truth tellers. Nothing changes indeed.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

University president had no bearing on the drive or laziness of the staff and the lack of bench. lazy is as lazy does.

Oh it absolutely has a bearing on the drive of the staff. When you are treated as a 2nd rate program, you will act and coach as a 2nd rate program.

Still not understanding your theory here. Lavin was paid a salary consistent with a high D1 program. His assistants were paid as well as any assistants anywhere. He was given carte blanche to travel the world or the country or wherever he wanted to recruit.

The only reason the program was a "2nd rate program" was because that was the limit of Lavin's motivation/ability.

It isn't the job of the university president to micromanage the basketball coach and kick him in the rear end to motivate him. If you are the university president and you have a basketball coach who needs that, then the correct course of action is to fire him and replace him with somebody who actually wants to do the job.

Now, I wouldn't argue with you if you were to say that St. J has a structural problem in that it does not have an athletic director with the authority or ability to manage the entire department and all of the coaches and programs, including the flagship basketball program. It would theoretically be that person's job to do some management of the basketball coach. However, if the coach was someone who really needed supervision, you would still need a new coach.

In short, Lavin's ability to be successful (or lack thereof) had exactly zero to do with St. John's and everything to do with Lavin. Anything else is just noise.

I understand what you are saying, but let me ask you this. What would your approach to recruiting be if you did not know if you would have a job in the following years? Would you really care about your job all that much when all you hear is how bad you suck at your job, and how you are probably going to be fired? How would you go into a recruits home, and sit down with them and their parents, and be like, 'well I'll be here for your freshman year, but I can't promise anything after that." And maybe Lavin and the admin did sit down and have a meeting, and he was informed that a change would be made after the season, so he figured why even bother? Who really knows...

I love the Mullin hire. The excitement around this program is fantastic. But let's remember, he wasn't won a single game yet. He landed a few recruits, but they are about the same ranking as ADR. If he gets Diallo and Sampson, it will be a different story.

My fear is that because he is the most iconic figure in the program's history, people automatically think that that will translate into the coaching profession, and we are going to somehow be a top 15 team every year. While the optimism is great, I'm not so sure how realistic it is.

And as I said before, what's going to happen if in 5yrs, Mullin has numbers comparable to Lavin? Are people on this board and this university really going to be able to separate Mullin the coach from Mullin the player?

 

[Andrew]

University president had no bearing on the drive or laziness of the staff and the lack of bench. lazy is as lazy does.

Oh it absolutely has a bearing on the drive of the staff. When you are treated as a 2nd rate program, you will act and coach as a 2nd rate program.

Still not understanding your theory here. Lavin was paid a salary consistent with a high D1 program. His assistants were paid as well as any assistants anywhere. He was given carte blanche to travel the world or the country or wherever he wanted to recruit.

The only reason the program was a "2nd rate program" was because that was the limit of Lavin's motivation/ability.

It isn't the job of the university president to micromanage the basketball coach and kick him in the rear end to motivate him. If you are the university president and you have a basketball coach who needs that, then the correct course of action is to fire him and replace him with somebody who actually wants to do the job.

Now, I wouldn't argue with you if you were to say that St. J has a structural problem in that it does not have an athletic director with the authority or ability to manage the entire department and all of the coaches and programs, including the flagship basketball program. It would theoretically be that person's job to do some management of the basketball coach. However, if the coach was someone who really needed supervision, you would still need a new coach.

In short, Lavin's ability to be successful (or lack thereof) had exactly zero to do with St. John's and everything to do with Lavin. Anything else is just noise.

I understand what you are saying, but let me ask you this. What would your approach to recruiting be if you did not know if you would have a job in the following years? Would you really care about your job all that much when all you hear is how bad you suck at your job, and how you are probably going to be fired? How would you go into a recruits home, and sit down with them and their parents, and be like, 'well I'll be here for your freshman year, but I can't promise anything after that." And maybe Lavin and the admin did sit down and have a meeting, and he was informed that a change would be made after the season, so he figured why even bother? Who really knows...

I love the Mullin hire. The excitement around this program is fantastic. But let's remember, he wasn't won a single game yet. He landed a few recruits, but they are about the same ranking as ADR. If he gets Diallo and Sampson, it will be a different story.

My fear is that because he is the most iconic figure in the program's history, people automatically think that that will translate into the coaching profession, and we are going to somehow be a top 15 team every year. While the optimism is great, I'm not so sure how realistic it is.

And as I said before, what's going to happen if in 5yrs, Mullin has numbers comparable to Lavin? Are people on this board and this university really going to be able to separate Mullin the coach from Mullin the player?

Did you have these same concerns during Lavin's first month? Nobody can predict the future. just take it one day at a time.

 

[TobinGrad]

Not unless Gempesaw could have given Lavin some game strategy advise and made him a better X&Os coach.

 

[fun]

My fear is that because he is the most iconic figure in the program's history, people automatically think that that will translate into the coaching profession, and we are going to somehow be a top 15 team every year

My fear is spiders.

 

[we are sju]

University president had no bearing on the drive or laziness of the staff and the lack of bench. lazy is as lazy does.

Are people on this board and this university really going to be able to separate Mullin the coach from Mullin the player?

He looks a lot different now then when he played so probably