Why the Recruits for Next Year could save Lav + us

it's a double-edged sword.

we are not bringing in a Kentucky like freshman class that will carry us to a 25 win season and we dont have a solid foundation of underclassmen other than Jordan who can develop the way the Kennedy/Horne group did.

I am not excited at all about the DeLaRosa signing. I will support him, but I dont think he is a difference maker and he is not going to replace what we lost. The next Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker arent walking through the gates of the St. John's campus next year either.

We will be in our customary bottom of the pack finish next year, just in a small-time conference this timne around.
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I agree with much of what you say above except for the term "small time conference". This small time conference sent 4 teams to the NCAA tourney this year and had St. John's and Marquette or Georgetown lived up to expectations, it would have been 5 or 6. A small time conference only sends one team every year, the automatic qualifier.
As for recruits, there are schools that will always attract the top players regardless of the coach like Kansas, UNC and Syracuse. Kentucky is on a different level than all the rest and Calipari is in a recruiting class by himself.
Steve Lavin was hired for his name recognition and his supposed ability to recruit top players. He has had some success with attracting top rated kids but he has not been a good judge of talent that could blend with a playing style, which he has yet to define at St. John's. I, for one, have been critical of his long term recuiting since last year when it became obvious he was not targeting 2014 players that could have made a huge difference this year. A good recuiter NEVER takes a year off recruiting and that is what he did and now we are getting all excited about signing unranked players and possible transfers because of that lackadaisical approach.
The key to Lavin holding on to his job will be how many early commitments he gets this Fall. If he strikes outs, I think barring a 22 + win season, he will be reading the fine print of his contract.
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4 NCAA teams, all were eliminated by the end of the first weekend, two of those teams, 2 and 3 seeds respectively, were dominated in their round of 32 games by lower seeded teams who had worse records but were in far superior conferences and Xavier was a no-show in the play in game. Maybe if Creighton and Villanova were in a major conference they would have been seeded accordingly on the 7-9 line, because that is what they were in reality. It was the worst showing for the Big East in the NCAA Tournament in over 20 years, and maybe EVER...I wonder if its a coincidence that the lower quality of play is a result of realignment and the "new big east"?
The early consensus pre-season picks for 2014-15 have Villanova in the top 20 and Georgetown around 40.
Hopefully it'll be different and the BiG East will be competitive, but with McDermott leaving Creighton, Cotton leaving PC, all the kids leaving SJU....do you think the conference will be better or worse next year?
 
What is needed is a coach who understands the nuts & bolts of technique, spacing and execution himself and has a system that he can implement and teach. Without that none of the rest matters. You guys can continue to fool yourself that the guys who left were the problem and that all Lavin needs to do is recruit "team" players, but the fact is that Buzz Williams and Ed Cooley would have taken our roster to a sweet-16 this year.

No recruit is going to save Lav. That is what both he and his defenders here have yet to figure out. It will take a new coach to save the program, forget lavin, let him return to tv
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If Lavin doesnt save the program, there wont be a program left to save. This is it, dont you understand? We have been irrelevant for more than a decade. We are now in a diminished BE conference which will make it harder to recruit. Lavin is our last chance.
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For an educated person dee I am shocked at your post. You believe Lavin is the only coach who can possibly make us relevant once again on a national level ?
Your statement is preposterous and completing lacking any merit or substance. There are multiple coaches out there both in college , as head coaches and assistants etc who could return us to the level of consistency we had under Louie.
Just go back over our history.
Brian 1 out of 4 seasons was very good.
Fran 1 out of 2 seasons was very good I believe Jarvis had 4 or 5 good seasons until the wheels fell off.
Norm who was given a job he was never qualified for took us from 6 wins to mediocrity.
Lavin has had 1 out of 4 good seasons in my opinion. There are others who would say he has had 3 good seasons since he has taken us to the post season 3 times in 4 seasons.
If I was the AD I would have a lengthy list on my desk of possible candidates. Would I get the right one , I don't know , but it is far from impossible and you will never convince me Coach Lavin is the only coach who can return this program to national prominence.
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This shows the difference in the mindset of today's St John's fan vs. the fans of my era
The definition of a good season back then was making the NCAA tournament
We expected the Redmen to be nationally ranked (or at least on the cusp)
Playing in the NIT meant that we had a disappointing season
Today, 100 schools play in either the NCAA or NIT tournament
I am not (and will never be) satisfied with being among the top 100 schools (roughly top third) in the nation
We should be able to make the NCAA's more often than not
Such has not been the case at St John's in a long time
Very disappointing change in mindset, to say the least!!
 
FYI

http://zagsblog.com/st-johns/lavin-to-visit-juco-forward-as-he-rebuilds-frontcourt/#more-114040
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Clearly a step down from CO and Samp but we need the bodies .
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I was not impressed with CO will not be hard to replace his NOS It will be nice to be able to have a recruit in the game at crunch time COcould not be on the floor in a close game in the last 2 mins because of his foul shooting
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It will be hard to replace him because of his defensive presence. Add that to the others we are losing up front and we would get bodied by a women's team next year the way this team is constructed.
 
If you look at Lavin's recruits that played in a game for St. John's prior to 2014 they can be broken down into two categories; Top 100 and other.

Top 100
Harkless
Sampson
Pointer
Obekpa
Harrison
Branch(Transfer)
Jordan

Other
Sanchez
Lindsey
Polee
Achiuwa
Greene
Borgault
Hooper
Jones
Balamou

Arguments can be made about the success or failure of the first column. Harkless is playing in the NBA. Jordan may one day also. The second column has had very little playing time to date. Lindsey, Hooper and Polee flew the coop after one year or less. Now, Lavin is recruiting a slew of players to add to column 2. It does not appear that he has any great eye for talent in that second column.
 
I believe Polee was top 100,. The other question to ask is can Lavin develop talent? Unfortunately the answer to that question seems to be no.
 
I believe Polee was top 100,. The other question to ask is can Lavin develop talent? Unfortunately the answer to that question seems to be no.
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He can't spot (under the radar)talent, he can't develop talent, and lord knows he can't coach talent.
 
It doesn't matter if Lavin magically landed 3 top ten recruits and 3 of the grittiest rebounders in the nation. His teams look like they've never been on the court together, and I don't think that will change. His players have absolutely no idea of what their role is on the floor. They have no idea how to play as a team. I swear, you could watch a pick-up game with a team full of strangers, and by the end of it, they'd be a more cohesive unit that this team was down the stretch.
 
The "other" category can serve their role if they understand clearly what their role is. Every good team needs a mix and match of both.

The problem is that we don't develop the "others" who are supposed to be your 4 year players.

So when they get called for duty, they're ready for action.

Sanchez, Hooper, Branch and GG all sat out a year.

Sanchez = no idea how to use him (tallest player on the team pump-faking behind the 3 point line)
Hooper = no idea how to use him (inserting him 10 seconds before the half is not a role)
Branch = no idea how to use him (should never had been behind Greene at PG)
GG = decent first year but redshirt year was a waste. Regressed terribly and/or was disinterested.
 
Yes polee was top 100. Coming out of his senior year of high school he was the #1 player in the state of California.
 
It doesn't matter if Lavin magically landed 3 top ten recruits and 3 of the grittiest rebounders in the nation. His teams look like they've never been on the court together, and I don't think that will change. His players have absolutely no idea of what their role is on the floor. They have no idea how to play as a team. I swear, you could watch a pick-up game with a team full of strangers, and by the end of it, they'd be a more cohesive unit that this team was down the stretch.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lavin's teams are amongst the worst coached teams that I've ever seen at any level of basketball. And that includes my daughter's old elementary school team. Hell my daughter's JV coach could run circles around Lavin as a tactician and in terms of getting his kids to buy in to a team first mentality. That's why they won their league championship and we got destroyed in the first round of the NIT. I realize it's all relative. But as one of the opposing coaches said to me after a playoff game "your coach is so tough to coach against. No matter what move I make he knows how to counter". Big praise coming from an opposing coach.
 
The conference will be better next year here's why.

Georgetown will be back to being Georgetown with a top 10 recruiting class coming in. They also bring back trawick, smith-Rivera, josh smith, Hopkins, Cameron, and Bradley Hayes who is 7 feet tall hasn't played much , but all big men always get better in the gtown program. They will be a deep and much improved team.

Nova brings back everyone except for James bell. Well at Least they have two 4 stars recruits coming in To replace bell and add more depth to an already deep team. Nova will be preseason top 15 next year.

Xavier will be much better next year. The loss of semaj Christon hurts along with Philmore graduating, but Mack is bringing in a top 15 recruiting class with all the players he's bringing in being in the top 100. You add the freshmen,with everyone else coming back, Xavier will be a tough out and much improved.

Providence looses cotton and batts but that's it. They get kris Dunn back, (who was a McDonald's all American 2 years ago) they return Harris, fortune , Henton, all whom gotten better as the year went on and who should get even better next year. Cooley is also bringing in a 4 man top 20 recruiting class that features 7'2 shot blocking machine paschal chukwu, 6'8 bruiser Ben betil, and top 50 player jaylen Lindsey. Desrosiers also comes back which might make the friars the biggest team in the country. Providence should be a force.

Marquette looses otule, Gardner , wilson, Thomas, but brings back everyone else. 6'11 Indiana transfer Luke Fischer will be a huge boost for them along with getting Duane wilson back who was one of their best freshmen that had to red shirt this year. Wojo should not have a problem recruiting esp after helping coach k land top 100 recruits the years that he was there. I gotta believe wojo wi still have all the connections that he has made with his time at duke. There freshmen class this year will all be sophs next year with mayo being the senior leader .

Seton hall looses alot of players but there bringing in a top 10 recruiting class to replace them all an then some. Those kids along with mobley, auda, Gibbs, sina should make hall pretty solid. With all the guards they have look for them to play a nova style of play. This team might be the surprise of the conference.

Creighton will fall off, DePaul will be DePaul again, butler might improve a little, but these 3 should be the weak 3 in our conference.

Then there's us! We will make the tourney next year.
 
The conference will be better next year here's why.

Georgetown will be back to being Georgetown with a top 10 recruiting class coming in. They also bring back trawick, smith-Rivera, josh smith, Hopkins, Cameron, and Bradley Hayes who is 7 feet tall hasn't played much , but all big men always get better in the gtown program. They will be a deep and much improved team.

Nova brings back everyone except for James bell. Well at Least they have two 4 stars recruits coming in To replace bell and add more depth to an already deep team. Nova will be preseason top 15 next year.

Xavier will be much better next year. The loss of semaj Christon hurts along with Philmore graduating, but Mack is bringing in a top 15 recruiting class with all the players he's bringing in being in the top 100. You add the freshmen,with everyone else coming back, Xavier will be a tough out and much improved.

Providence looses cotton and batts but that's it. They get kris Dunn back, (who was a McDonald's all American 2 years ago) they return Harris, fortune , Henton, all whom gotten better as the year went on and who should get even better next year. Cooley is also bringing in a 4 man top 20 recruiting class that features 7'2 shot blocking machine paschal chukwu, 6'8 bruiser Ben betil, and top 50 player jaylen Lindsey. Desrosiers also comes back which might make the friars the biggest team in the country. Providence should be a force.

Marquette looses otule, Gardner , wilson, Thomas, but brings back everyone else. 6'11 Indiana transfer Luke Fischer will be a huge boost for them along with getting Duane wilson back who was one of their best freshmen that had to red shirt this year. Wojo should not have a problem recruiting esp after helping coach k land top 100 recruits the years that he was there. I gotta believe wojo wi still have all the connections that he has made with his time at duke. There freshmen class this year will all be sophs next year with mayo being the senior leader .

Seton hall looses alot of players but there bringing in a top 10 recruiting class to replace them all an then some. Those kids along with mobley, auda, Gibbs, sina should make hall pretty solid. With all the guards they have look for them to play a nova style of play. This team might be the surprise of the conference.

Creighton will fall off, DePaul will be DePaul again, butler might improve a little, but these 3 should be the weak 3 in our conference.

Then there's us! We will make the tourney next year.
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Which tourney?
 
What concerns me is how long it seems to take Coach Lavin to figure out the best rotation of players. So, even if he gets some good players in here as a reload, how long will take it take to get the right lineup?

We gave some early season games away because of the sometimes head scratching lineups.

But, that is pretty much the least of our problems right now. I really thought he had things heading in the right direction.
 
What concerns me is how long it seems to take Coach Lavin to figure out the best rotation of players. So, even if he gets some good players in here as a reload, how long will take it take to get the right lineup?

We gave some early season games away because of the sometimes head scratching lineups.

But, that is pretty much the least of our problems right now. I really thought he had things heading in the right direction.
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At least Jordan won't be a mystery to him and getting plenty of PT.
 
The conference will be better next year here's why.

Georgetown will be back to being Georgetown with a top 10 recruiting class coming in. They also bring back trawick, smith-Rivera, josh smith, Hopkins, Cameron, and Bradley Hayes who is 7 feet tall hasn't played much , but all big men always get better in the gtown program. They will be a deep and much improved team.

Nova brings back everyone except for James bell. Well at Least they have two 4 stars recruits coming in To replace bell and add more depth to an already deep team. Nova will be preseason top 15 next year.

Xavier will be much better next year. The loss of semaj Christon hurts along with Philmore graduating, but Mack is bringing in a top 15 recruiting class with all the players he's bringing in being in the top 100. You add the freshmen,with everyone else coming back, Xavier will be a tough out and much improved.

Providence looses cotton and batts but that's it. They get kris Dunn back, (who was a McDonald's all American 2 years ago) they return Harris, fortune , Henton, all whom gotten better as the year went on and who should get even better next year. Cooley is also bringing in a 4 man top 20 recruiting class that features 7'2 shot blocking machine paschal chukwu, 6'8 bruiser Ben betil, and top 50 player jaylen Lindsey. Desrosiers also comes back which might make the friars the biggest team in the country. Providence should be a force.

Marquette looses otule, Gardner , wilson, Thomas, but brings back everyone else. 6'11 Indiana transfer Luke Fischer will be a huge boost for them along with getting Duane wilson back who was one of their best freshmen that had to red shirt this year. Wojo should not have a problem recruiting esp after helping coach k land top 100 recruits the years that he was there. I gotta believe wojo wi still have all the connections that he has made with his time at duke. There freshmen class this year will all be sophs next year with mayo being the senior leader .

Seton hall looses alot of players but there bringing in a top 10 recruiting class to replace them all an then some. Those kids along with mobley, auda, Gibbs, sina should make hall pretty solid. With all the guards they have look for them to play a nova style of play. This team might be the surprise of the conference.

Creighton will fall off, DePaul will be DePaul again, butler might improve a little, but these 3 should be the weak 3 in our conference.

Then there's us! We will make the tourney next year.
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I think this is a too simplified way of looking at things.

The conference lost the national POY and Cotton. You're putting a lot of emphasis on entering freshmen around the conference who rarely tend to make a dent. Mack could be out the door any day now and the "most talented team in the Big East" had as many defections as any team in D1.

Nova and Creighton carried the conference this year as far as OOC goes. Creighton will be a non-factor next year.

I'd be very surprised if the conference was better next year than it was this year.
 
The conference will be better next year here's why.

Georgetown will be back to being Georgetown with a top 10 recruiting class coming in. They also bring back trawick, smith-Rivera, josh smith, Hopkins, Cameron, and Bradley Hayes who is 7 feet tall hasn't played much , but all big men always get better in the gtown program. They will be a deep and much improved team.

Nova brings back everyone except for James bell. Well at Least they have two 4 stars recruits coming in To replace bell and add more depth to an already deep team. Nova will be preseason top 15 next year.

Xavier will be much better next year. The loss of semaj Christon hurts along with Philmore graduating, but Mack is bringing in a top 15 recruiting class with all the players he's bringing in being in the top 100. You add the freshmen,with everyone else coming back, Xavier will be a tough out and much improved.

Providence looses cotton and batts but that's it. They get kris Dunn back, (who was a McDonald's all American 2 years ago) they return Harris, fortune , Henton, all whom gotten better as the year went on and who should get even better next year. Cooley is also bringing in a 4 man top 20 recruiting class that features 7'2 shot blocking machine paschal chukwu, 6'8 bruiser Ben betil, and top 50 player jaylen Lindsey. Desrosiers also comes back which might make the friars the biggest team in the country. Providence should be a force.

Marquette looses otule, Gardner , wilson, Thomas, but brings back everyone else. 6'11 Indiana transfer Luke Fischer will be a huge boost for them along with getting Duane wilson back who was one of their best freshmen that had to red shirt this year. Wojo should not have a problem recruiting esp after helping coach k land top 100 recruits the years that he was there. I gotta believe wojo wi still have all the connections that he has made with his time at duke. There freshmen class this year will all be sophs next year with mayo being the senior leader .

Seton hall looses alot of players but there bringing in a top 10 recruiting class to replace them all an then some. Those kids along with mobley, auda, Gibbs, sina should make hall pretty solid. With all the guards they have look for them to play a nova style of play. This team might be the surprise of the conference.

Creighton will fall off, DePaul will be DePaul again, butler might improve a little, but these 3 should be the weak 3 in our conference.

Then there's us! We will make the tourney next year.
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I think this is a too simplified way of looking at things.

The conference lost the national POY and Cotton. You're putting a lot of emphasis on entering freshmen around the conference who rarely tend to make a dent. Mack could be out the door any day now and the "most talented team in the Big East" had as many defections as any team in D1.

Nova and Creighton carried the conference this year as far as OOC goes. Creighton will be a non-factor next year.

I'd be very surprised if the conference was better next year than it was this year.
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Agree
 
The conference will be better next year here's why.

Georgetown will be back to being Georgetown with a top 10 recruiting class coming in. They also bring back trawick, smith-Rivera, josh smith, Hopkins, Cameron, and Bradley Hayes who is 7 feet tall hasn't played much , but all big men always get better in the gtown program. They will be a deep and much improved team.

Nova brings back everyone except for James bell. Well at Least they have two 4 stars recruits coming in To replace bell and add more depth to an already deep team. Nova will be preseason top 15 next year.

Xavier will be much better next year. The loss of semaj Christon hurts along with Philmore graduating, but Mack is bringing in a top 15 recruiting class with all the players he's bringing in being in the top 100. You add the freshmen,with everyone else coming back, Xavier will be a tough out and much improved.

Providence looses cotton and batts but that's it. They get kris Dunn back, (who was a McDonald's all American 2 years ago) they return Harris, fortune , Henton, all whom gotten better as the year went on and who should get even better next year. Cooley is also bringing in a 4 man top 20 recruiting class that features 7'2 shot blocking machine paschal chukwu, 6'8 bruiser Ben betil, and top 50 player jaylen Lindsey. Desrosiers also comes back which might make the friars the biggest team in the country. Providence should be a force.

Marquette looses otule, Gardner , wilson, Thomas, but brings back everyone else. 6'11 Indiana transfer Luke Fischer will be a huge boost for them along with getting Duane wilson back who was one of their best freshmen that had to red shirt this year. Wojo should not have a problem recruiting esp after helping coach k land top 100 recruits the years that he was there. I gotta believe wojo wi still have all the connections that he has made with his time at duke. There freshmen class this year will all be sophs next year with mayo being the senior leader .

Seton hall looses alot of players but there bringing in a top 10 recruiting class to replace them all an then some. Those kids along with mobley, auda, Gibbs, sina should make hall pretty solid. With all the guards they have look for them to play a nova style of play. This team might be the surprise of the conference.

Creighton will fall off, DePaul will be DePaul again, butler might improve a little, but these 3 should be the weak 3 in our conference.

Then there's us! We will make the tourney next year.
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Lose not loose
 
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