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danfog

Member
Florida Gulf Coast and LaSalle make it to the Sweet 16 with guys who can shoot, crash the boards and run. We have athletes who can't shoot or box out or play as a team. There are great players all over this country.............. why don't we get our share?

This must end next year or we should form a new conference with Fordham and Manhattan and play the best CYO teams in Brooklyn and Queens.

I am sick and tired.

danfog
 
This is their Final Four, their crowning moment for their entire history of their program.

Maybe it isn't the best word to use, but fluke is a term that comes to mind. The stars aligned for these teams and yes, it's pretty cool.

But you are getting carried away with your comparison.

Do you really think these teams will be back again in the same place year after year? How about in 10 years?

Do you really think they would be at the top of the Big East if they were in our conference? No way. Both would be at the bottom of our conference. Our SOS was 34. Fla. Gulf SOS is 211. Are you getting the point?

Last I checked, we beat Fla. Gulf this year. 'Nuff said.
 
Florida Gulf Coast and LaSalle make it to the Sweet 16 with guys who can shoot, crash the boards and run. We have athletes who can't shoot or box out or play as a team. There are great players all over this country.............. why don't we get our share?

This must end next year or we should form a new conference with Fordham and Manhattan and play the best CYO teams in Brooklyn and Queens.

I am sick and tired.

danfog
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I here..you But if we do not recruit. players who can shoot the rock we will continue to struggle to score. .There is more to recruiting than getting the best athelete This falls a Lavin I would give him 2 more yrs if he does not send us deep in . the NCAA . a change is in order
 
This is their Final Four, their crowning moment for their entire history of their program.

Maybe it isn't the best word to use, but fluke is a term that comes to mind. The stars aligned for these teams and yes, it's pretty cool.

But you are getting carried away with your comparison.

Do you really think these teams will be back again in the same place year after year? How about in 10 years?

Do you really think they would be at the top of the Big East if they were in our conference? No way. Both would be at the bottom of our conference. Our SOS was 34. Fla. Gulf SOS is 211. Are you getting the point?

Last I checked, we beat Fla. Gulf this year. 'Nuff said.
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It's similar to a 17-inch snowfall in South Carolina and Georgia.... It can happen (and, it has), but how often does it occur.
 
LaSalle in and of itself may be a fluke, but I think your going to see a lot of Cinderellas from the "first four" spot in the coming years. I really believe that, if you are one of the at-larges who wins that game (not the 16 seeds, because the talent differential between them and a 1 seed is too great), you are at an advantage going forward, especially in the Thursday or Friday game. So, LaSalle was at an advantage over K-State, IMO, and has gotten a friendly, busted bracket going forward.
 
Florida Gulf Coast and LaSalle make it to the Sweet 16 with guys who can shoot, crash the boards and run. We have athletes who can't shoot or box out or play as a team. There are great players all over this country.............. why don't we get our share?

This must end next year or we should form a new conference with Fordham and Manhattan and play the best CYO teams in Brooklyn and Queens.

I am sick and tired.

danfog
Click to expand...
I here..you But if we do not recruit. players who can shoot the rock we will continue to struggle to score. .There is more to recruiting than getting the best athelete This falls a Lavin I would give him 2 more yrs if he does not send us deep in . the NCAA . a change is in order
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In 30 years of St. John's basketball, there are only a handful of players that we've had that you could call good outside shooters who could also play the game. Start with Mullin, add Ron Rowan, and then you really have to scratch your head to think of a very good, reliable outside shooter. Sealy was a medium range shooter and slasher, Artest the same. Hatten and Bootsy were mostly scorers without tons of reliable range. I really can't think of any others historically, no less think that we need great outside shooting to be a competitive team.
 
Today you need a solid 3pt shooter, at least one, and we have NON, we can't defend the 3 and we can't shoot the 3, that automatically puts us behind the 8 ball in most games.
 
Start with Mullin, add Ron Rowan, and then you really have to scratch your head to think of a very good, reliable outside shooter. Sealy was a medium range shooter and slasher, Artest the same. Hatten and Bootsy were mostly scorers without tons of reliable range. I really can't think of any others historically, no less think that we need great outside shooting to be a competitive team.
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Hmmm. Mullin and Rowan, good outside shooters who could also play the game. What do they have in common. Hmmm. You forgot Fred Lyson and Sergio Luyk and Matty Brust.

How about Dwight Hardy? Hmmmm. Boo Harvey. Hmmm. Mark Jackson. Hmmmm. What do they have in common. Hmmmm. It's certainly a head scratcher.
 
Maybe it isn't the best word to use, but fluke is a term that comes to mind. The stars aligned for these teams and yes, it's pretty cool
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Fluke. Kind of like when SJ made the final four 30 years ago. That was pretty cool as well.
 
Florida Gulf Coast and LaSalle make it to the Sweet 16 with guys who can shoot, crash the boards and run. We have athletes who can't shoot or box out or play as a team. There are great players all over this country.............. why don't we get our share?

This must end next year or we should form a new conference with Fordham and Manhattan and play the best CYO teams in Brooklyn and Queens.

I am sick and tired.

danfog
Click to expand...
I here..you But if we do not recruit. players who can shoot the rock we will continue to struggle to score. .There is more to recruiting than getting the best athelete This falls a Lavin I would give him 2 more yrs if he does not send us deep in . the NCAA . a change is in order
Click to expand...

Kevin "rada" Cluess

In 30 years of St. John's basketball, there are only a handful of players that we've had that you could call good outside shooters who could also play the game. Start with Mullin, add Ron Rowan, and then you really have to scratch your head to think of a very good, reliable outside shooter. Sealy was a medium range shooter and slasher, Artest the same. Hatten and Bootsy were mostly scorers without tons of reliable range. I really can't think of any others historically, no less think that we need great outside shooting to be a competitive team.
Click to expand...
 
Florida Gulf Coast and LaSalle make it to the Sweet 16 with guys who can shoot, crash the boards and run. We have athletes who can't shoot or box out or play as a team. There are great players all over this country.............. why don't we get our share?

This must end next year or we should form a new conference with Fordham and Manhattan and play the best CYO teams in Brooklyn and Queens.

I am sick and tired.

danfog
Click to expand...
I here..you But if we do not recruit. players who can shoot the rock we will continue to struggle to score. .There is more to recruiting than getting the best athelete This falls a Lavin I would give him 2 more yrs if he does not send us deep in . the NCAA . a change is in order
Click to expand...

Kevin "radar" Cluess

In 30 years of St. John's basketball, there are only a handful of players that we've had that you could call good outside shooters who could also play the game. Start with Mullin, add Ron Rowan, and then you really have to scratch your head to think of a very good, reliable outside shooter. Sealy was a medium range shooter and slasher, Artest the same. Hatten and Bootsy were mostly scorers without tons of reliable range. I really can't think of any others historically, no less think that we need great outside shooting to be a competitive team.
Click to expand...
 
Start with Mullin, add Ron Rowan, and then you really have to scratch your head to think of a very good, reliable outside shooter. Sealy was a medium range shooter and slasher, Artest the same. Hatten and Bootsy were mostly scorers without tons of reliable range. I really can't think of any others historically, no less think that we need great outside shooting to be a competitive team.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Mullin and Rowan, good outside shooters who could also play the game. What do they have in common. Hmmm. You forgot Fred Lyson and Sergio Luyk and Matty Brust.

How about Dwight Hardy? Hmmmm. Boo Harvey. Hmmm. Mark Jackson. Hmmmm. What do they have in common. Hmmmm. It's certainly a head scratcher.
Click to expand...

Do you really think that way? If you do, it's kind of sad.

Aren't you still working on dissecting Lavin's comments about grieving?

I'd include Hardy as a good college outside shooter. I don't think Jackson was considered a huge outside threat.
 
Start with Mullin, add Ron Rowan, and then you really have to scratch your head to think of a very good, reliable outside shooter. Sealy was a medium range shooter and slasher, Artest the same. Hatten and Bootsy were mostly scorers without tons of reliable range. I really can't think of any others historically, no less think that we need great outside shooting to be a competitive team.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Mullin and Rowan, good outside shooters who could also play the game. What do they have in common. Hmmm. You forgot Fred Lyson and Sergio Luyk and Matty Brust.

How about Dwight Hardy? Hmmmm. Boo Harvey. Hmmm. Mark Jackson. Hmmmm. What do they have in common. Hmmmm. It's certainly a head scratcher.
Click to expand...

Do you really think that way? If you do, it's kind of sad.

Aren't you still working on dissecting Lavin's comments about grieving?

I'd include Hardy as a good college outside shooter. I don't think Jackson was considered a huge outside threat.
 
Do you really think that way? If you do, it's kind of sad.



I'd include Hardy as a good college outside shooter. I don't think Jackson was considered a huge outside threat.
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Huh? Think what way? I was referring to the fact that you cited a list of shooters that included only heady intelligent players like Ron Rowan and neglected the shooters who were natural athletes like Boo Harvey. To what are you referring?

PS Mark Jackson shot 42 percent from three as a senior. Better than JJ Reddick shot as a junior and .05 percent lower than JJ Reddick shot as a senior. Shirley JJ Reddick is one of those heady intelligent shooters who would have been on your list.
 
go back 50 years and include tony jackson. how many 3 point shots would he have made. sad so few people on the board remember him .
 
Don't have my stat machine handy but Boo had a special talent for hitting the "big" shot. I'd wager that if you put his stats up for overall 3pt shooting vs 3pt shots at critical moments the latter would be significantly higher. David Cain Sr season hit some special shots. Jason Buchanan was used sparingly in that role but hit some good ones. Bootsy was awesome at hitting the outside shot and likewise cleaning up the garbage under the basket.
Had Mark Jackson played a few years later he probably would have been thought of as a great shooter. The three was a big adjustment for LC and it never seemed to be treated as anything but a gimmick on his last couple of teams.
 
Don't have my stat machine handy but Boo had a special talent for hitting the "big" shot. I'd wager that if you put his stats up for overall 3pt shooting vs 3pt shots at critical moments the latter would be significantly higher. David Cain Sr season hit some special shots. Jason Buchanan was used sparingly in that role but hit some good ones. Bootsy was awesome at hitting the outside shot and likewise cleaning up the garbage under the basket.
Had Mark Jackson played a few years later he probably would have been thought of as a great shooter. The three was a big adjustment for LC and it never seemed to be treated as anything but a gimmick on his last couple of teams.
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It's a great discussion to initiate - guys who want the ball in their hands and are capable of making the big shot. The greatest players always seem to do that - want the ball, and make shots. There's no question that as good as Jordan, Bird, and other were in the first 45 minutes of a game, they defined themselves by being money players in the final few minutes. For Knicks fans it seemed that more often than not, Ewing would miss a key foul shot, short jumper in the closing moments than come through.

Mark Jackson is a rare guy who was actually better in the NBA than he was in college. No one would have seriously picked Jackson to have a stellar career, and Pearl Washington to flop, but that's exactly what happened.
 
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