I could be wrong, but my recollection is there was no expectation Lovett would return for his senior year, given he'd already sat out a year and been to several high schools. Best we were going to get was a full year in 2017-2018 and I agree if he was healthy and stayed we would have likely made dance that year.
What If Lovett is not "injured" for Mullins last 2 years
- Thread starter RJGBOOTSY
- Start date
[quote="austour" post=386086][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=386074]Thanx for the feedback. My point is that had Lovett stayed, as was the plan, they would have won at least 19 games in 17-18 and made a post season tourney and 24 games in 18-19 with a higher seed in the NCAA tourney. With this record and achievement Mullin would still be the coach. The plan was in place and Lovett did not allow it to be executed.[/quote]
One man a plan does not make.[/quote]
Correct Austour there was no plan on so many levels.
If Berry had been eligible to play in 82-83 we don’t go to the sweet 16 we win the National Championship.
If Berry had been eligible to play in 83-84 we don’t lose to Temple by 1 point in our first round tournament game we are at least a sweet 16 team.
If Berry doesn’t sprain his ankle in the first round of the tournament in 86 we go to the final four again.
If Berry doesn’t déclaré for the draft in 86 we go very deep in 87.
If the ref calls the blatant lane violation against Dallas Comegys in 87 in the round of 32 we are in the sweet 16. If Porter doesn’t run away and get married in the Bahamas in 88 we have an even better team than the one which won the NIT in 89.
If Jason Williams doesn’t hurt his leg we go very deep in 90.
If Billy Singleton doesn’t bounce the ball he doesn’t get called for a technical against Puke in 91 and we go to the final four.
If Mahoney gives Cain a breather in 93 we beat Arkansas and assistant CMA.
If Tyrone Grant is not injured, if Scoonie Penn gets called for the bump against Eric Barkley, we go to the final four in 99.
If Artest doesn’t leave school after his sophomore season we go to the final four in 2000.
If Barkley doesn’t leave school after his sophomore season we go deep in the tournament in 2001.
If Omar Cook doesn’t leave school after his freshman season we would have arguably had the nations best backcourt in Cook and Hatten.
If Jarvis took the Wizards job and we got Jay Wright.
If Jarvis did not do everything in his power to piss off Father Harrington Pittsburgh never happens.
If Pittsburgh never happens no probation, no vacated wins, no Norm Roberts.
If Kennedy doesn’t tear his knee in the BE tournament we get a better seed and don’t play Gonzaga.
If Harkless stays for his sophomore season we dance again and Lavin is never let go.
If Obekpa was half normal he doesn’t get suspended and we beat SAN Diego State and Lavin is never let go.
All that to say is that crap happens in college bball and that is why you recruit as full a roster of players as possible, like CMA does, so that one player cannot destroy , see the 11 game loosing streak, a season and team.
One man a plan does not make.[/quote]
Correct Austour there was no plan on so many levels.
If Berry had been eligible to play in 82-83 we don’t go to the sweet 16 we win the National Championship.
If Berry had been eligible to play in 83-84 we don’t lose to Temple by 1 point in our first round tournament game we are at least a sweet 16 team.
If Berry doesn’t sprain his ankle in the first round of the tournament in 86 we go to the final four again.
If Berry doesn’t déclaré for the draft in 86 we go very deep in 87.
If the ref calls the blatant lane violation against Dallas Comegys in 87 in the round of 32 we are in the sweet 16. If Porter doesn’t run away and get married in the Bahamas in 88 we have an even better team than the one which won the NIT in 89.
If Jason Williams doesn’t hurt his leg we go very deep in 90.
If Billy Singleton doesn’t bounce the ball he doesn’t get called for a technical against Puke in 91 and we go to the final four.
If Mahoney gives Cain a breather in 93 we beat Arkansas and assistant CMA.
If Tyrone Grant is not injured, if Scoonie Penn gets called for the bump against Eric Barkley, we go to the final four in 99.
If Artest doesn’t leave school after his sophomore season we go to the final four in 2000.
If Barkley doesn’t leave school after his sophomore season we go deep in the tournament in 2001.
If Omar Cook doesn’t leave school after his freshman season we would have arguably had the nations best backcourt in Cook and Hatten.
If Jarvis took the Wizards job and we got Jay Wright.
If Jarvis did not do everything in his power to piss off Father Harrington Pittsburgh never happens.
If Pittsburgh never happens no probation, no vacated wins, no Norm Roberts.
If Kennedy doesn’t tear his knee in the BE tournament we get a better seed and don’t play Gonzaga.
If Harkless stays for his sophomore season we dance again and Lavin is never let go.
If Obekpa was half normal he doesn’t get suspended and we beat SAN Diego State and Lavin is never let go.
All that to say is that crap happens in college bball and that is why you recruit as full a roster of players as possible, like CMA does, so that one player cannot destroy , see the 11 game loosing streak, a season and team.
I'm surprised by the speculation that Mullin may not have cared on a personal level. Maybe not in head coach way, but never got a sense here from anyone posting at the time that he didn't care about his players. I recall him always saying that there was no timetable, health first etc.
Looks like he cared at least at some point.
[attachment=1416]_big_9597723.jpeg[/attachment]
Looks like he cared at least at some point.
[attachment=1416]_big_9597723.jpeg[/attachment]
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="panther2" post=386078][quote="Beast of the East" post=386069]If Panther's information about Lovett's feeling towards Mullin and St. John's is correct, and there's no reason to believe that Panther doesn't have inside information about the way Lovett felt, he wouldn't be the first Lovett to claim his school mistreated him:
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Beast, nowhere in my post did I state that Marcus had been mistreated. Not sure what you are trying to prove or suggest with this post.There is a big difference between being mistreated and not feeling that your head coach cares about you on a personal level.[/quote]
To me at least you appear to be making the case that Mullin didn't care about his players, or at the very least for Lovett.
Somehow you felt it important to qualify yourself as an AAU coach with 20 years experience. We all know that and i respect that.
While knowing you I'm confident that you cared about your players, having coached aau for 2 seasons i did so because my experience with aau coaches by and large was the opposite. They cared about the best players as commodities who brought wins. Some poached players from public schools to their own private hs teams. End of bench kids paid the bills via registration fees.
I'd guess knowing Mullin a bit that there was no star system, and lovett didn't get stroked the way every coach he ever had treated him because he was so good. So whether you were number 1 on the team or #12 my guess is Mullin treated everyone the same. He always said that's how his dad raised him to treat everyone- the same.
I don't know their relationship and if you do, you are hearing it from one side - lovett's camp.
As you know I've been critical of Mullin's tenure but bristle at shots at his character, which is how i took your post. Apologies if you meant something different.
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Beast, nowhere in my post did I state that Marcus had been mistreated. Not sure what you are trying to prove or suggest with this post.There is a big difference between being mistreated and not feeling that your head coach cares about you on a personal level.[/quote]
To me at least you appear to be making the case that Mullin didn't care about his players, or at the very least for Lovett.
Somehow you felt it important to qualify yourself as an AAU coach with 20 years experience. We all know that and i respect that.
While knowing you I'm confident that you cared about your players, having coached aau for 2 seasons i did so because my experience with aau coaches by and large was the opposite. They cared about the best players as commodities who brought wins. Some poached players from public schools to their own private hs teams. End of bench kids paid the bills via registration fees.
I'd guess knowing Mullin a bit that there was no star system, and lovett didn't get stroked the way every coach he ever had treated him because he was so good. So whether you were number 1 on the team or #12 my guess is Mullin treated everyone the same. He always said that's how his dad raised him to treat everyone- the same.
I don't know their relationship and if you do, you are hearing it from one side - lovett's camp.
As you know I've been critical of Mullin's tenure but bristle at shots at his character, which is how i took your post. Apologies if you meant something different.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="RedStormNC" post=386090]I'm surprised by the speculation that Mullin may not have cared on a personal level. Maybe not in head coach way, but never got a sense here from anyone posting at the time that he didn't care about his players. I recall him always saying that there was no timetable, health first etc.
Looks like he cared at least at some point.
[attachment=1416]_big_9597723.jpeg[/attachment][/quote]
He also gave Lovett his retired #20 to wear.
Looks like he cared at least at some point.
[attachment=1416]_big_9597723.jpeg[/attachment][/quote]
He also gave Lovett his retired #20 to wear.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=386091][quote="panther2" post=386078][quote="Beast of the East" post=386069]If Panther's information about Lovett's feeling towards Mullin and St. John's is correct, and there's no reason to believe that Panther doesn't have inside information about the way Lovett felt, he wouldn't be the first Lovett to claim his school mistreated him:
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Beast, nowhere in my post did I state that Marcus had been mistreated. Not sure what you are trying to prove or suggest with this post.There is a big difference between being mistreated and not feeling that your head coach cares about you on a personal level.[/quote]
To me at least you appear to be making the case that Mullin didn't care about his players, or at the very least for Lovett.
Somehow you felt it important to qualify yourself as an AAU coach with 20 years experience. We all know that and i respect that.
While knowing you I'm confident that you cared about your players, having coached aau for 2 seasons i did so because my experience with aau coaches by and large was the opposite. They cared about the best players as commodities who brought wins. Some poached players from public schools to their own private hs teams. End of bench kids paid the bills via registration fees.
I'd guess knowing Mullin a bit that there was no star system, and lovett didn't get stroked the way every coach he ever had treated him because he was so good. So whether you were number 1 on the team or #12 my guess is Mullin treated everyone the same. He always said that's how his dad raised him to treat everyone- the same.
I don't know their relationship and if you do, you are hearing it from one side - lovett's camp.
As you know I've been critical of Mullin's tenure but bristle at shots at his character, which is how i took your post. Apologies if you meant something different.[/quote]
Beast, there were no shots at Mullin's character. As many on here have previously stated, Mullin treated his players like they were pros. Not blaming him, but he never took the time to understand that the young men who played for him needed support and guidance like most college students.
As far as my involvement in AAU, one of the reasons that I was successful was because I cared for my players on a personal level. I went to their high schools to check on their school work. If they were not doing well in school, thet did not travel. If they failed a class, they went to summer school. When they got to college, I followed up with them to make sure they were on track to graduate. If they had family issues, I tried to help as best as I could. I never asked a young man to play for me, that would have been disrespectful yo his family. Any player that I was interested in, I spoke with his parents first. There were years that parents approached me asking if ther son could play. This was accomplished by word of mouth. Parents of former players would tell others that they could trust me to do right by their sons.
Not sure what you are looking for Beast but you won't find it here. My reputation and integrity speaks for itself. No one who ever played for me had to pay to be on the team.
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Beast, nowhere in my post did I state that Marcus had been mistreated. Not sure what you are trying to prove or suggest with this post.There is a big difference between being mistreated and not feeling that your head coach cares about you on a personal level.[/quote]
To me at least you appear to be making the case that Mullin didn't care about his players, or at the very least for Lovett.
Somehow you felt it important to qualify yourself as an AAU coach with 20 years experience. We all know that and i respect that.
While knowing you I'm confident that you cared about your players, having coached aau for 2 seasons i did so because my experience with aau coaches by and large was the opposite. They cared about the best players as commodities who brought wins. Some poached players from public schools to their own private hs teams. End of bench kids paid the bills via registration fees.
I'd guess knowing Mullin a bit that there was no star system, and lovett didn't get stroked the way every coach he ever had treated him because he was so good. So whether you were number 1 on the team or #12 my guess is Mullin treated everyone the same. He always said that's how his dad raised him to treat everyone- the same.
I don't know their relationship and if you do, you are hearing it from one side - lovett's camp.
As you know I've been critical of Mullin's tenure but bristle at shots at his character, which is how i took your post. Apologies if you meant something different.[/quote]
Beast, there were no shots at Mullin's character. As many on here have previously stated, Mullin treated his players like they were pros. Not blaming him, but he never took the time to understand that the young men who played for him needed support and guidance like most college students.
As far as my involvement in AAU, one of the reasons that I was successful was because I cared for my players on a personal level. I went to their high schools to check on their school work. If they were not doing well in school, thet did not travel. If they failed a class, they went to summer school. When they got to college, I followed up with them to make sure they were on track to graduate. If they had family issues, I tried to help as best as I could. I never asked a young man to play for me, that would have been disrespectful yo his family. Any player that I was interested in, I spoke with his parents first. There were years that parents approached me asking if ther son could play. This was accomplished by word of mouth. Parents of former players would tell others that they could trust me to do right by their sons.
Not sure what you are looking for Beast but you won't find it here. My reputation and integrity speaks for itself. No one who ever played for me had to pay to be on the team.
Last edited:
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="Moose" post=386075][quote="Jack Williams" post=386066][quote="Jeff Smith" post=386057]What if this thread didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after wasting time reading it.[/quote]
what if this post didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after seeing Jeff Smith being an ass for no reason[/quote]
Jeff seems to have a propensity to click threads he has no interest in reading and then commenting about how much he hated what he read. I think there is a solution here but I can’t quite pinpoint it[/quote]
This happens too frequently on the forum IMO and not just from Jeff. By definition a forum is a place to discuss things. No one is forced to read or listen to things from others. It's one thing to respectfully disagree and you state your case. As long as it's regarding SJ hoops IMO it's fair game. There are plenty of threads I have no interest in and somehow I'm able to scroll past them!
Anyway, back to the topic, no doubt having Lovett for those years would've helped a lot. But regardless, we would still see the true colors in terms of the results of Mullin teams eventually anyway. So yes maybe he gets Mullin an extension, but it's clear Mullin didn't seem to see it as a 12 month full time job and was not recruiting nearly enough, so it would've caught up to us either way. When I think of the Mullin team that went to the tourney by the skin of their teeth as the literal last team in, I think it was in spite of Mullin and not because of him IMO. Our pure talent got us there...barely. With good coaching we could've really made a run. The CMA ship seems to be run much tighter and it's all business which I love to see. No flashiness, just work. The jury is out on recruiting ability, but we will see.
what if this post didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after seeing Jeff Smith being an ass for no reason[/quote]
Jeff seems to have a propensity to click threads he has no interest in reading and then commenting about how much he hated what he read. I think there is a solution here but I can’t quite pinpoint it[/quote]
This happens too frequently on the forum IMO and not just from Jeff. By definition a forum is a place to discuss things. No one is forced to read or listen to things from others. It's one thing to respectfully disagree and you state your case. As long as it's regarding SJ hoops IMO it's fair game. There are plenty of threads I have no interest in and somehow I'm able to scroll past them!
Anyway, back to the topic, no doubt having Lovett for those years would've helped a lot. But regardless, we would still see the true colors in terms of the results of Mullin teams eventually anyway. So yes maybe he gets Mullin an extension, but it's clear Mullin didn't seem to see it as a 12 month full time job and was not recruiting nearly enough, so it would've caught up to us either way. When I think of the Mullin team that went to the tourney by the skin of their teeth as the literal last team in, I think it was in spite of Mullin and not because of him IMO. Our pure talent got us there...barely. With good coaching we could've really made a run. The CMA ship seems to be run much tighter and it's all business which I love to see. No flashiness, just work. The jury is out on recruiting ability, but we will see.