I find this interesting given how well he was playing prior to the "injury" Think we would have made the tourney in year 3 and made a deep run in year 4. Ponds and Lovett where turning into a very strong backcourt.. Lovett was extremely talented and I believe certainly worth a few more wins each season. With his staying would Mullin still be here???
What If Lovett is not "injured" for Mullins last 2 years
- Thread starter RJGBOOTSY
- Start date
Marcus Lovett was a very talented young man. However, I don't think that Mullin ever connected with him. The difference between Coach Mullin and Coach Anderson is the Coach Anderson connects with his players on a personal level. Marcus never felt appreciated while he was here. Coach Anderson would have let him know how important he was to the success of the program. Sometimes, even talented players need that personal input from the head coach.
In addition, during Ponds' last season here, he was out of shape. That summer, there was no strength and conditioning coach. I think that all of us saw the difference in conditioning between Mullin's last team and Anderson's first team.
Mullin really did not understand that being a college coach is a 12 month a year job. He needed an experienced assistant like a Louis Orr or Mike Dunlap to help guide him. Fred Hoiberg has Matt on his staff but he also has Doc Sadler and Bobby Lutz, two coaches who have had success on their own.
In addition, during Ponds' last season here, he was out of shape. That summer, there was no strength and conditioning coach. I think that all of us saw the difference in conditioning between Mullin's last team and Anderson's first team.
Mullin really did not understand that being a college coach is a 12 month a year job. He needed an experienced assistant like a Louis Orr or Mike Dunlap to help guide him. Fred Hoiberg has Matt on his staff but he also has Doc Sadler and Bobby Lutz, two coaches who have had success on their own.
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beast of the east
Active member
[quote="panther2" post=386042]Marcus Lovett was a very talented young man. However, I don't think that Mullin ever connected with him. The difference between Coach Mullin and Coach Anderson is the Coach Anderson connects with his players on a personal level. Marcus never felt appreciated while he was here. Coach Anderson would have let him know how important he was to the success of the program. Sometimes, even talented players need that personal input from the head coach.
In addition, during Ponds' last season here, he was out of shape. That summer, there was no strength and conditioning coach. I think that all of us saw the difference in conditioning between Mullin's last team and Anderson's first team.
Mullin really did not understand that being a college coach is a 12 month a year job. He needed an experienced assistant like a Louis Orr or Mike Dunlap to help guide him. Fred Hoiberg has Matt on his staff but he also has Doc Sadler and Bobby Lutz, two coaches who have had success on their own.[/quote]
I saw an interview with John Thompson, who was certainly old school, about how much the game had changed since he retired.
Players come in being directed by handlers, AAU coaches, and parents as to what they need to do to get to the next level. That usually means more shots, more points, being the focal point. (see Renardsellshouses who wasn't a bad guy, just a guy publicly advocating that his son should be a focal point)
Getting players to buy into a team approach is difficult when most who have NBA aspirations are thinking of college as a one or two year proposition.
As a result a lot of kids don't put the academic work necessary to even get through four years.
Many think their large twitter following, accumulated during their days as a heralded hs player, highly sought after recruit, or by fans of their college team makes them stars in their own right.
Mullin wasn't inclined to coddle players who thought they were already stars. Ponds chattered incessantly about the draft during year two. Mullin quipped to close friends, "Does he mean military draft?"
Perhaps Anderson, being a modern coach, would have handled Lovett better, maybe coddled his ego a bit. But Lovett's decisions haven't exactly worked out for him.
Dunlap is not exactly high touch with kids On the other hand GSJ was. Just about every roster player told the athletic department they wanted him as head coach (If wasn't happening of course. But GSJ was the only staffer retained, and until CMA was hired, reassured players, spoke to parents, and generally held things together in the interim)
In terms of the shape Ponds kept himself in, not having a conditioning coach is only part of the story. A rising junior with NBA aspirations shouldn't need a conditioning coach to monitor his workouts off the court.
No question Mullin had glaring deficiencies as a coach and really didn't know what he was walking into, But insofar as Ponds or Lovett, they have to bear the consequences of their own actions. Maybe CMA would have handled them and maybe he wouldn't have recruited them at all.
In addition, during Ponds' last season here, he was out of shape. That summer, there was no strength and conditioning coach. I think that all of us saw the difference in conditioning between Mullin's last team and Anderson's first team.
Mullin really did not understand that being a college coach is a 12 month a year job. He needed an experienced assistant like a Louis Orr or Mike Dunlap to help guide him. Fred Hoiberg has Matt on his staff but he also has Doc Sadler and Bobby Lutz, two coaches who have had success on their own.[/quote]
I saw an interview with John Thompson, who was certainly old school, about how much the game had changed since he retired.
Players come in being directed by handlers, AAU coaches, and parents as to what they need to do to get to the next level. That usually means more shots, more points, being the focal point. (see Renardsellshouses who wasn't a bad guy, just a guy publicly advocating that his son should be a focal point)
Getting players to buy into a team approach is difficult when most who have NBA aspirations are thinking of college as a one or two year proposition.
As a result a lot of kids don't put the academic work necessary to even get through four years.
Many think their large twitter following, accumulated during their days as a heralded hs player, highly sought after recruit, or by fans of their college team makes them stars in their own right.
Mullin wasn't inclined to coddle players who thought they were already stars. Ponds chattered incessantly about the draft during year two. Mullin quipped to close friends, "Does he mean military draft?"
Perhaps Anderson, being a modern coach, would have handled Lovett better, maybe coddled his ego a bit. But Lovett's decisions haven't exactly worked out for him.
Dunlap is not exactly high touch with kids On the other hand GSJ was. Just about every roster player told the athletic department they wanted him as head coach (If wasn't happening of course. But GSJ was the only staffer retained, and until CMA was hired, reassured players, spoke to parents, and generally held things together in the interim)
In terms of the shape Ponds kept himself in, not having a conditioning coach is only part of the story. A rising junior with NBA aspirations shouldn't need a conditioning coach to monitor his workouts off the court.
No question Mullin had glaring deficiencies as a coach and really didn't know what he was walking into, But insofar as Ponds or Lovett, they have to bear the consequences of their own actions. Maybe CMA would have handled them and maybe he wouldn't have recruited them at all.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=386045][quote="panther2" post=386042]Marcus Lovett was a very talented young man. However, I don't think that Mullin ever connected with him. The difference between Coach Mullin and Coach Anderson is the Coach Anderson connects with his players on a personal level. Marcus never felt appreciated while he was here. Coach Anderson would have let him know how important he was to the success of the program. Sometimes, even talented players need that personal input from the head coach.
In addition, during Ponds' last season here, he was out of shape. That summer, there was no strength and conditioning coach. I think that all of us saw the difference in conditioning between Mullin's last team and Anderson's first team.
Mullin really did not understand that being a college coach is a 12 month a year job. He needed an experienced assistant like a Louis Orr or Mike Dunlap to help guide him. Fred Hoiberg has Matt on his staff but he also has Doc Sadler and Bobby Lutz, two coaches who have had success on their own.[/quote]
I saw an interview with John Thompson, who was certainly old school, about how much the game had changed since he retired.
Players come in being directed by handlers, AAU coaches, and parents as to what they need to do to get to the next level. That usually means more shots, more points, being the focal point. (see Renardsellshouses who wasn't a bad guy, just a guy publicly advocating that his son should be a focal point)
Getting players to buy into a team approach is difficult when most who have NBA aspirations are thinking of college as a one or two year proposition.
As a result a lot of kids don't put the academic work necessary to even get through four years.
Many think their large twitter following, accumulated during their days as a heralded hs player, highly sought after recruit, or by fans of their college team makes them stars in their own right.
Mullin wasn't inclined to coddle players who thought they were already stars. Ponds chattered incessantly about the draft during year two. Mullin quipped to close friends, "Does he mean military draft?"
Perhaps Anderson, being a modern coach, would have handled Lovett better, maybe coddled his ego a bit. But Lovett's decisions haven't exactly worked out for him.
Dunlap is not exactly high touch with kids On the other hand GSJ was. Just about every roster player told the athletic department they wanted him as head coach (If wasn't happening of course. But GSJ was the only staffer retained, and until CMA was hired, reassured players, spoke to parents, and generally held things together in the interim)
In terms of the shape Ponds kept himself in, not having a conditioning coach is only part of the story. A rising junior with NBA aspirations shouldn't need a conditioning coach to monitor his workouts off the court.
No question Mullin had glaring deficiencies as a coach and really didn't know what he was walking into, But insofar as Ponds or Lovett, they have to bear the consequences of their own actions. Maybe CMA would have handled them and maybe he wouldn't have recruited them at all.[/quote]
One thing that I have learned in life is that people will care about how much you know, when they know how much you care. You can substitute patients, clients, players, and many others word for people.
There is a big difference between being supportive and coddling. Some of the best coaches are people oriented. They get to know their players off the court. This does not mean they befriend them, but they inquire about how their families are doing, their girlfriends, what they may be struggling with. Forget basketball, a lot of college students struggle to adjust. Some have a more stable family structure than others. When you recruit a young man or woman to come play for you, it is your responsibility to know what he or she needs and address these issues. You can't successfully coach a young man or woman that you have not spent time forming a relationship with.
When I speak about issues like this, it is not from second hand knowledge or rumors, it is from personal experience that I have gained having spent more than 20 years at the highest level of AAU basketball.
In addition, during Ponds' last season here, he was out of shape. That summer, there was no strength and conditioning coach. I think that all of us saw the difference in conditioning between Mullin's last team and Anderson's first team.
Mullin really did not understand that being a college coach is a 12 month a year job. He needed an experienced assistant like a Louis Orr or Mike Dunlap to help guide him. Fred Hoiberg has Matt on his staff but he also has Doc Sadler and Bobby Lutz, two coaches who have had success on their own.[/quote]
I saw an interview with John Thompson, who was certainly old school, about how much the game had changed since he retired.
Players come in being directed by handlers, AAU coaches, and parents as to what they need to do to get to the next level. That usually means more shots, more points, being the focal point. (see Renardsellshouses who wasn't a bad guy, just a guy publicly advocating that his son should be a focal point)
Getting players to buy into a team approach is difficult when most who have NBA aspirations are thinking of college as a one or two year proposition.
As a result a lot of kids don't put the academic work necessary to even get through four years.
Many think their large twitter following, accumulated during their days as a heralded hs player, highly sought after recruit, or by fans of their college team makes them stars in their own right.
Mullin wasn't inclined to coddle players who thought they were already stars. Ponds chattered incessantly about the draft during year two. Mullin quipped to close friends, "Does he mean military draft?"
Perhaps Anderson, being a modern coach, would have handled Lovett better, maybe coddled his ego a bit. But Lovett's decisions haven't exactly worked out for him.
Dunlap is not exactly high touch with kids On the other hand GSJ was. Just about every roster player told the athletic department they wanted him as head coach (If wasn't happening of course. But GSJ was the only staffer retained, and until CMA was hired, reassured players, spoke to parents, and generally held things together in the interim)
In terms of the shape Ponds kept himself in, not having a conditioning coach is only part of the story. A rising junior with NBA aspirations shouldn't need a conditioning coach to monitor his workouts off the court.
No question Mullin had glaring deficiencies as a coach and really didn't know what he was walking into, But insofar as Ponds or Lovett, they have to bear the consequences of their own actions. Maybe CMA would have handled them and maybe he wouldn't have recruited them at all.[/quote]
One thing that I have learned in life is that people will care about how much you know, when they know how much you care. You can substitute patients, clients, players, and many others word for people.
There is a big difference between being supportive and coddling. Some of the best coaches are people oriented. They get to know their players off the court. This does not mean they befriend them, but they inquire about how their families are doing, their girlfriends, what they may be struggling with. Forget basketball, a lot of college students struggle to adjust. Some have a more stable family structure than others. When you recruit a young man or woman to come play for you, it is your responsibility to know what he or she needs and address these issues. You can't successfully coach a young man or woman that you have not spent time forming a relationship with.
When I speak about issues like this, it is not from second hand knowledge or rumors, it is from personal experience that I have gained having spent more than 20 years at the highest level of AAU basketball.
If the NCAA follows through next year allowing players one free transfer college coaches will be unable to keep players happy who will jump ship at the first sign they feel they are not being treated fairly.
[quote="MainMan" post=386052]We need a Netflix series on St. John's what ifs:
What if Lavin didn't get cancer?
What if Louie stayed in the ABA?
What if Bob Cousy/Lew Alcindor/Dr. J/Hakeem Olajuwon/Gary Payton came to St. John's?[/quote
What if Jarvis gets the job and doesn't insist on deuce getting a position too and Wright comes here]?
What if Lavin didn't get cancer?
What if Louie stayed in the ABA?
What if Bob Cousy/Lew Alcindor/Dr. J/Hakeem Olajuwon/Gary Payton came to St. John's?[/quote
What if Jarvis gets the job and doesn't insist on deuce getting a position too and Wright comes here]?
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
[quote="Jeff Smith" post=386057]What if this thread didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after wasting time reading it.[/quote]
Time better spent catching up on “Tiger King” news?
Time better spent catching up on “Tiger King” news?
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[quote="Jeff Smith" post=386057]What if this thread didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after wasting time reading it.[/quote]
what if this post didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after seeing Jeff Smith being an ass for no reason
what if this post didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after seeing Jeff Smith being an ass for no reason
beast of the east
Active member
If Panther's information about Lovett's feeling towards Mullin and St. John's is correct, and there's no reason to believe that Panther doesn't have inside information about the way Lovett felt, he wouldn't be the first Lovett to claim his school mistreated him:
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court
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Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
[quote="Beast of the East" post=386069]If Panther's information about Lovett's feeling towards Mullin and St. John's is correct, and there's no reason to believe that Panther doesn't have inside information about the way Lovett felt, he wouldn't be the first Lovett to claim his school mistreated him:
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Did he come to StJ’s in anticipation of The Gathering?
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Did he come to StJ’s in anticipation of The Gathering?
Thanx for the feedback. My point is that had Lovett stayed, as was the plan, they would have won at least 19 games in 17-18 and made a post season tourney and 24 games in 18-19 with a higher seed in the NCAA tourney. With this record and achievement Mullin would still be the coach. The plan was in place and Lovett did not allow it to be executed.
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="Jack Williams" post=386066][quote="Jeff Smith" post=386057]What if this thread didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after wasting time reading it.[/quote]
what if this post didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after seeing Jeff Smith being an ass for no reason[/quote]
Jeff seems to have a propensity to click threads he has no interest in reading and then commenting about how much he hated what he read. I think there is a solution here but I can’t quite pinpoint it
what if this post didn't exist? That's what I asked myself after seeing Jeff Smith being an ass for no reason[/quote]
Jeff seems to have a propensity to click threads he has no interest in reading and then commenting about how much he hated what he read. I think there is a solution here but I can’t quite pinpoint it
[quote="Beast of the East" post=386069]If Panther's information about Lovett's feeling towards Mullin and St. John's is correct, and there's no reason to believe that Panther doesn't have inside information about the way Lovett felt, he wouldn't be the first Lovett to claim his school mistreated him:
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Beast, nowhere in my post did I state that Marcus had been mistreated. Not sure what you are trying to prove or suggest with this post.There is a big difference between being mistreated and not feeling that your head coach cares about you on a personal level.
https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/02/...-now-his-venue-is-the-courtroom-not-the-court[/quote]
Beast, nowhere in my post did I state that Marcus had been mistreated. Not sure what you are trying to prove or suggest with this post.There is a big difference between being mistreated and not feeling that your head coach cares about you on a personal level.
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="panther2" post=386078]There is a big difference between being mistreated and not feeling that your head coach cares about you on a personal level.[/quote]
I'm sure I mentioned this several years ago, but Mullin was coming in to the coaching world cold as a 50-something-year-old millionaire who had been successful at every level of basketball. He probably didn't even feel like he should have to be bothered with a lot of the little things that go into running a program.
Meanwhile, someone like Anderson scratched his way through the ranks, so he would have been much better equipped to deal with a LoVett, because he would have known how to deal with him and where the middle ground needed to be.
If Mullin had hired a staff like Matt, DeMeo, and Macon, we might not even have CMA. The staff was the ultimate problem if Mullin wanted to be more of a GM.
I'm sure I mentioned this several years ago, but Mullin was coming in to the coaching world cold as a 50-something-year-old millionaire who had been successful at every level of basketball. He probably didn't even feel like he should have to be bothered with a lot of the little things that go into running a program.
Meanwhile, someone like Anderson scratched his way through the ranks, so he would have been much better equipped to deal with a LoVett, because he would have known how to deal with him and where the middle ground needed to be.
If Mullin had hired a staff like Matt, DeMeo, and Macon, we might not even have CMA. The staff was the ultimate problem if Mullin wanted to be more of a GM.
Just makes you wonder who Mullin conferred with on the day/week/month/year in the life of a D1 coach these days, before accepting.
[quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=386074]Thanx for the feedback. My point is that had Lovett stayed, as was the plan, they would have won at least 19 games in 17-18 and made a post season tourney and 24 games in 18-19 with a higher seed in the NCAA tourney. With this record and achievement Mullin would still be the coach. The plan was in place and Lovett did not allow it to be executed.[/quote]
One man a plan does not make.
One man a plan does not make.