What Feels Different So Far

paultzman

paultzman

Well-known member
2023 $upporter 2022 $upporter
1. Recruiting seems much more targeted & strategic.

2. There is much more aggressive local player prospecting and program relationship building, while also identifying specific external potential areas to recruit, e.g. Shoes opening doors in Florida.

3. Staff is avoiding chasing kids out of reach and wasting time, Ian Jackson for example and probably Fland.

4. Two main respected recruiters in Van & Shoes working in sync, in contrast to one man efforts when Matt was leading the process.

5. Getting multiple realistic targets, as in the guard trio currently in play, to position the program for hopefully “first to commit” situations.

6. Identifying top 100 kids who can be attracted here and possibly turn the heads of other quality kids in their social circle who can then be recruited. Storr> Gardner > to other solid kids is exhibit A.

Of course staff must close out two of three of Carl, Gertrude, Demary and of course the big one, Williams. Novel here for years to get three quality early commits enabling staff to assess need in Spring while spending time working on 24 players aggressively.

All of this perceived change is moot without a successful season to keep program momentum rolling. BE is a bear of a league, but time to step up so SJU hoops can get on ever elusive path of continuous success. Bumps are fine, but ruts are not.
 
I’ve always been a believe that schools need at least 2 strong recruiters in the road going after kids. We had fallen behind in the past by having one recruiter most of the time. Adding Vetrone to Macon seems to have had a huge impact. I’m gonna say I believe the NIL, despite my worries, might have helped is rather than hurt in recruiting. All signs point to us firing on all cylinders right now. We gotta start winning this year and getting the fan base more excited abljt SJU again.
 
There seems to be an NIL bump, and also Vetrone is a recruiting upgrade over DeMeo. But there is an advantage when you can identify targets early and show long-term interest that does not exist yet the first few years in a job. You can’t recruit Brandon Williams for four years if you are only in your second year. I would notice last year that many times directly after a bad loss, I would see a tweet that CMA went straight from MSG or Carnesecca to a game at CTK or Hayes, etc.

CMA gets paid well and it’s a results business, but it’s always been clear to me that he is putting in real work himself. I think some a lot of this is the benefits of something this program has not had in a long time, stability.
 
paultzman said:
1. Recruiting seems much more targeted & strategic.

2. There is much more aggressive local player prospecting and program relationship building, while also identifying specific external potential areas to recruit, e.g. Shoes opening doors in Florida.

3. Staff is avoiding chasing kids out of reach and wasting time, Ian Jackson for example and probably Fland.

4. Two main respected recruiters in Van & Shoes working in sync, in contrast to one man efforts when Matt was leading the process.

5. Getting multiple realistic targets, as in the guard trio currently in play, to position the program for hopefully “first to commit” situations.

6. Identifying top 100 kids who can be attracted here and possibly turn the heads of other quality kids in their social circle who can then be recruited. Storr> Gardner > to other solid kids is exhibit A.

Of course staff must close out two of three of Carl, Gertrude, Demary and of course the big one, Williams. Novel here for years to get three quality early commits enabling staff to assess need in Spring while spending time working on 24 players aggressively.

All of this perceived change is moot without a successful season to keep program momentum rolling. BE is a bear of a league, but time to step up so SJU hoops can get on ever elusive path of continuous success. Bumps are fine, but ruts are
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The way I see it, there are 2 big questions Paultz:

1. Will the high level of recruiting continue, or is this just a temporary uptick?

2. As you alluded to, will it translate to success on the court and when?

Like everyone else, I like how things are looking at the moment. Unlike most everyone else, I am not convinced that we've turned a corner. I'll remain very cautiously optimistic, nothing more.
 
monte said:
The way I see it, there are 2 big questions Paultz:

1. Will the high level of recruiting continue, or is this just a temporary uptick?

2. As you alluded to, will it translate to success on the court and when?

Like everyone else, I like how things are looking at the moment. Unlike most everyone else, I am not convinced that we've turned a corner. I'll remain very cautiously optimistic, nothing more.
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Very fair Monte
 
IMO the difference is that StJohn’s athletics is being run by experienced professionals (Cragg, CMA, Mason and Shoes), and the University is also being run by an experienced professional President Brian Stanley.
 
otis said:
IMO the difference is that StJohn’s athletics is being run by experienced professionals (Cragg, CMA, Mason and Shoes), and the University is also being run by an experienced professional President Brian Stanley.
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Valid point Otis, and that certainly puts us on par with countless other D1 programs, but by no means does it guarantee success. Let alone sustained success. If anything, the program seems much more stable then in has in a long time, and that is IMO the most encouraging sign for the future of our program.
 
monte said:
Valid point Otis, and that certainly puts us on par with countless other D1 programs, but by no means does it guarantee success. Let alone sustained success. If anything, the program seems much more stable then in has in a long time, and that is IMO the most encouraging sign for the future of our program.
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Finishing top 4 in BE, Winning 2 games in BET and getting a single digit seed in the NCAA . I would say those are reasonable goals for 2022-23 Season . If we are turning up in BE we must start a credible Winning Tradition , year in , year out .
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
Finishing top 4 in BE, Winning 2 games in BET and getting a single digit seed in the NCAA . I would say those are reasonable goals for 2022-23 Season . If we are turning up in BE we must start a credible Winning Tradition , year in , year out .
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Agreed. This season is shaping up to be a very critical season with regard to the future of our program. We now have some buzz again. If we have a good season(as per your goals), then the buzz will continue and maybe even increase. If we lay an egg, the buzz will disappear as it's done multiple times over the past 20 years. Fingers crossed.
 
Like everyone is saying we need two things to converge between now and March. Completing the '23 recruiting class with the strong recruits we are hoping for and having a strong season where we make the NCAA's. If we can do both of those we will be set up well for a strong '24 class and maybe a sustainable uptick in the program. We need to make the tournament a couple of years in a row and win a game or two before we can pat ourselves on the back.
 
Agree with Monte and SLYFOXX - we need to get ourselves back to the top levels of the Big East. We should top 4-5 on the regular. Not botton 4-5 where we have been for too long. Everything flows from there - decent seeds for the NCAAs, and the ability to make a run every few years.

That is a realistic expectation. Not just this year, but every year.
 
monte said:
Agreed. This season is shaping up to be a very critical season with regard to the future of our program. We now have some buzz again. If we have a good season(as per your goals), then the buzz will continue and maybe even increase. If we lay an egg, the buzz will disappear as it's done multiple times over the past 20 years. Fingers crossed.
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Monte you know I respect your opinion, and not disagreeing, just playing devil's advocate. Is buzz really a thing? We seemingly had no buzz going into this off season and CMA started generating buzz out of nowhere.
 
room112 said:
Monte you know I respect your opinion, and not disagreeing, just playing devil's advocate. Is buzz really a thing? We seemingly had no buzz going into this off season and CMA started generating buzz out of nowhere.
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Good question 112. I do feel that buzz is a very good PR tool for the program and for recruiting. The buzz seems to have started with the Curbelo commitment, then we started to hear more serious interest from Gardner and others. All of a sudden we are in the mix with a lot more high ranked kids. The Gardner commitment created even more buzz, as evidenced by what's being written and said about us right now. So there's buzz that is created by recruiting, then there's the buzz that's created by how we do on the court. Buzz is also a good indicator of relevance IMO.
 
Room112 wrote:

Monte you know I respect your opinion, and not disagreeing, just playing devil's advocate. Is buzz really a thing? We seemingly had no buzz going into this off season and CMA started generating buzz out of nowhere.

Room112, buzz is absolutely a thing. The program had a huge buzz Lavin's first year both because of his personality and early recruiting success but more importantly because he won some big games at MSG that first year and we were a top 25 team much of the year. There was also a buzz to the program when hometown hero Mullin was first hired. In both cases the buzz didn't last because the winning wasn't consistent. While the offseason recruiting has generated a real buzz among the SJU faithful only winning a lot of games will generate a buzz with the average basketball fan. I spent some time at the beach last week with my son-in-law who is a huge NBA fan and casual college basketball fan and lives in Brooklyn. He had no idea that St. John's was having a great offseason, but like many others he will definitely notice if the offseason success turns into regular season wins.
 
Alonzo: Well none of that sh-- means anything unless you get Serrano to take the tapes.

Tapes = Winning

Midnight Run....Classic!
 
I’m gonna say it. Davey Jones is gonna give us Champagnie-like numbers this year and gonna take his place as an alpha here moving forward. Kid has real big time talent and methinks has only
scratched the surface. He’s gonna hone his game here.
 
This is a really well articulated, thoughtful thread with respectful back and forth exchanges. My 2 cents is yes buzz is very much a thing. These kids for the most part know each other either via AAU or social media so when a high quality talent and young person signs yes.. other kids definitely notice.
As for Mike as a few of you know I've known him forever and think the world of him... that being said I would like to see improvements in certain areas( out of bounds sets, end of game management, high pick and roll defense..) I know he likes this team so I'm optimistic for a very solid season
Can't say enough about the staff and recruiting. Paul was dead on.. instead of chasing kids they aren't getting they are focusing on kids who they might... and they will.. this is going to be a very good class
 
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