What did Looie have that his successors didn't?

[mjmaherjr]

How did Louie recruit Payton out of Oakland, I believe? Did he see him at national tourneys only in the east? How many in-home, in-state visits did he make? Sproling in Colorado, Broadnax in Ft. Walton Beach, FL?

Coach C. wasn't originally looking at Payton but he and everyone else for that matter were looking at Payton's teammate, Greg Forster who wound up at UCLA. Payton only received two offers from D1 school, St. John's and Oregon State. While we did do most of our recruiting locally, we did go to the major camps which were all in the East back then, Five Star being the real big one at that time.

We did not do a lot of National recruiting, but again the players came East for camps and we would see them. Yes, we probably did have home visits of such. Sproiling became interested in St. John's watching Chris Mullin who he became a huge fan of. Don't know the Broadnax connection.

Sproling met the team at their hotel during the NCAA's in Denver. The guys (players and coaches) were nice to him and he decided he wanted to play for St. John's. He then "recruited" us. This is the story he told.

That makes sense because Loooie told me at a function that he didn't even have to recruit Sproling.

That's really interesting, and gives some insights as to what the world was like pre-internet. Without information available freely at your fingertips, even as a season ticket holder then, we believed Sproling was the result of expanding to a national recruiting effort.

Me too. I was so curios. It was at the Baseball dinner a couple of years ago that I went to with JSJ. I was walking out of the bathroom and Looie was there and I said hi and we talked for couple of minutes and that was always on the back of my mind so I asked him and was real surprised when he said that to me

 

[room112]

I think some people forget the state of the program when Lavin took over. He basically had to build a team from scratch that was coming off of a horrible 5 years+ run. It's a small miracle he was able to bring in highly rated recruits. I mean, you saw how Norm did when he was in a similar situation and had to replace a whole roster. My point being, I can't get on his case for bringing in the players he did.

 

[beast of the east]

I think some people forget the state of the program when Lavin took over. He basically had to build a team from scratch that was coming off of a horrible 5 years+ run. It's a small miracle he was able to bring in highly rated recruits. I mean, you saw how Norm did when he was in a similar situation and had to replace a whole roster. My point being, I can't get on his case for bringing in the players he did.

You can't convince the "new" people who come here, and immediately flame the board like they did with their old screen names. Do you want to say it hasn't fast enough, that's an opinion. But to denigrate the talent that quickly was amassed here from ground zero is just silly talk and we shouldn't let it piss us off.

 

[1and1sju]

I think some people forget the state of the program when Lavin took over. He basically had to build a team from scratch that was coming off of a horrible 5 years+ run. It's a small miracle he was able to bring in highly rated recruits. I mean, you saw how Norm did when he was in a similar situation and had to replace a whole roster. My point being, I can't get on his case for bringing in the players he did.

I think this is absolutely true. Any coach would've wanted Sampson. Lavin did a very good job of bringing in talent. People who criticize him for that are way off base.
How he's managed that talent is a different story, but I don't need to berate that point.
But regardless, he did a very impressive job of bringing in a lot of talent right away. People say kids like Dom, Sampson, Branch etc have under-performed, and maybe that's true. But the fact is not every prospect will pan out. But when you amass a collection of highly rated kids, you're doing a good job of recruiting.

Also, this notion that he needs to recruit less heralded kids is completely without merit. We're not Kentucky. It's not like he's bringing in top 10 kids every year.
I've heard a lot of people say: " well he should recruit more fundamentally sound players, not these top recruits." Our recruits are mostly mid to upper 50 ranked players. Those aren't the one and done studs. Those are the solid role players for most programs.
There really isn't much sense in recruiting notably less talented players. Being lower ranked doens't mean a guy is more fundamentally sound.
We've just been so starved of talent that every time we get a top 100 recruit we assume he's going to be a star, and not a role player. Guys like the shooter Cooney on Syracuse were ranked one spot behind Harrison, #s 50 and 51. Yet a lot of our fans probably assume he was an unranked kid that Boehim chose to get to supplement his stars. That's BS. Every coach tries to find the best talent, period. And so far (up until 2014 anyway) Lavin has done that.

 

[newsman13]

Lavin has one edge over Looie in that he's a national personality. Looie, during his early years was a local star. That changed somewhat once the Big East got big. Still, he had a New York personality which may not have sat well with out of towners.

Looie brought in a few top ten players who today would be one and done. Lavin hasn't brought in those types, which puts him on a lower level than Looie along with the Calipari's, Pitino's and the other superstar coaches out there.

I know people who were glad Looie jumped to the Nets because they hoped someone more "big time" would come. I know people who were glad Lapchick was retired by the school for the same reason. (BTW, the Alcindor story that he would have stayed if Lapchick stayed is crap. He took the Gilbert bucks to go to UCLA like the rest of them. Period.)

At least when Looie decided to stop working, he handed over the reins to a repoacement. Our problem is the perception that Lavin has stopped working and he's sticking around.

Another BTW, I know Rutledge wasn't an assistant under Roberts...but he was collecting a paycheck. For what, I'll leave it up to you to decide.

 

[SJU85]

How did Louie recruit Payton out of Oakland, I believe? Did he see him at national tourneys only in the east? How many in-home, in-state visits did he make? Sproling in Colorado, Broadnax in Ft. Walton Beach, FL?

Coach C. wasn't originally looking at Payton but he and everyone else for that matter were looking at Payton's teammate, Greg Forster who wound up at UCLA. Payton only received two offers from D1 school, St. John's and Oregon State. While we did do most of our recruiting locally, we did go to the major camps which were all in the East back then, Five Star being the real big one at that time.

We did not do a lot of National recruiting, but again the players came East for camps and we would see them. Yes, we probably did have home visits of such. Sproiling became interested in St. John's watching Chris Mullin who he became a huge fan of. Don't know the Broadnax connection.

Sproling met the team at their hotel during the NCAA's in Denver. The guys (players and coaches) were nice to him and he decided he wanted to play for St. John's. He then "recruited" us. This is the story he told.

He will also tell you he was a huge Chris Mullin fan which is how he first got interested. He was a highly regarded recruit.

A player recruiting a school is not uncommon. Syracuse had never heard of let alone seen Rony Seikaly until he his Uncle who lived upstate took him to the Cuse basketball office soon after his arrival from Greece and Derrick Coleman contacted Syracuse and left a message. They looked him up in Street and Smith's book, saw where he was ranked and called him right back.

I don't disagree, 85. I just thought he became a Mullin fan after meeting the team in Denver. Maybe he was already a fan. I remember that he was a highly rated recruit. When I heard he had scored 74 pts in a HS game, I thought we had hit the jackpot.

Not disagreeing with you either as that could have been when he first became a fan.

We all thought we were getting something great when we heard about the 74 point game. What we got was a great guy (just a real pleasant person who always spoke to you when you said hello without an attitude and would come over and say hello before you even got a chance if he recognized you, whether he really knew you or not) who played great defense, but did not offer much on the offensive end.

.
Another BTW, I know Rutledge wasn't an assistant under Roberts...but he was collecting a paycheck. For what, I'll leave it up to you to decide.

I only brought it up because you typed it "Roberts/Rutledge" making it seem, at least to me they were here together.

 

[Andrew]

How did Louie recruit Payton out of Oakland, I believe? Did he see him at national tourneys only in the east? How many in-home, in-state visits did he make? Sproling in Colorado, Broadnax in Ft. Walton Beach, FL?

Coach C. wasn't originally looking at Payton but he and everyone else for that matter were looking at Payton's teammate, Greg Forster who wound up at UCLA. Payton only received two offers from D1 school, St. John's and Oregon State. While we did do most of our recruiting locally, we did go to the major camps which were all in the East back then, Five Star being the real big one at that time.

We did not do a lot of National recruiting, but again the players came East for camps and we would see them. Yes, we probably did have home visits of such. Sproiling became interested in St. John's watching Chris Mullin who he became a huge fan of. Don't know the Broadnax connection.

Sproling met the team at their hotel during the NCAA's in Denver. The guys (players and coaches) were nice to him and he decided he wanted to play for St. John's. He then "recruited" us. This is the story he told.

He will also tell you he was a huge Chris Mullin fan which is how he first got interested. He was a highly regarded recruit.

A player recruiting a school is not uncommon. Syracuse had never heard of let alone seen Rony Seikaly until he his Uncle who lived upstate took him to the Cuse basketball office soon after his arrival from Greece and Derrick Coleman contacted Syracuse and left a message. They looked him up in Street and Smith's book, saw where he was ranked and called him right back.

I don't disagree, 85. I just thought he became a Mullin fan after meeting the team in Denver. Maybe he was already a fan. I remember that he was a highly rated recruit. When I heard he had scored 74 pts in a HS game, I thought we had hit the jackpot.

Not disagreeing with you either as that could have been when he first became a fan.

We all thought we were getting something great when we heard about the 74 point game. What we got was a great guy (just a real pleasant person who always spoke to you when you said hello without an attitude and would come over and say hello before you even got a chance if he recognized you, whether he really knew you or not) who played great defense, but did not offer much on the offensive end.

I was a teenager in the final four year and the information that I got about the program was mainly through the papers. I thought that Sproling choosing St. John's was a result of the high profile of the Big East. Syracuse had landed a couple of kids from Los Angeles if I recall, and I thought he was similar. I was shocked when I saw how he shot the ball. Sproling and Lopez were big disappointments. Felipe was a great guy as well. I have become so jaded the last twenty to twenty five years that I did not expect as much from guys like Pointer.

 

[MainMan]

Louie had the extraordinary ability to make bad teams good, and also make great teams good.

I think I stole that from Foad.

 

[capmaker]

Louie's critics claimed he kept both teams in the game.

 

[Las Vegan]

Lavin has one edge over Looie in that he's a national personality. Looie, during his early years was a local star. That changed somewhat once the Big East got big. Still, he had a New York personality which may not have sat well with out of towners.

Looie brought in a few top ten players who today would be one and done. Lavin hasn't brought in those types, which puts him on a lower level than Looie along with the Calipari's, Pitino's and the other superstar coaches out there.

I know people who were glad Looie jumped to the Nets because they hoped someone more "big time" would come. I know people who were glad Lapchick was retired by the school for the same reason. (BTW, the Alcindor story that he would have stayed if Lapchick stayed is crap. He took the Gilbert bucks to go to UCLA like the rest of them. Period.)

At least when Looie decided to stop working, he handed over the reins to a repoacement. Our problem is the perception that Lavin has stopped working and he's sticking around.

Interesting post. The loss of Alcindor was the single biggest reversal for SJU basketbell. Whether it was from the university mishandling Lapchick's retirement or $am Gilbert, UCLA's bagman, or a combination of both - I don't know. Only Alcindor could clear it up, and that's unlikely. I recall reading that Gilbert didn't get involved until 1966, so he may not have been involved in the original recruitment, but Alcindor was not happy with UCLA, after his first year, and contemplated transferring. What made him return, Gilbert? John Wooden was a cheater, and I don't understand why any SJU fan would praise him.
Other important recruits Louie missed were Jim McMillian, from Jefferson, Jim O'Brien, from St. Francis Prep and Mike Maloy, from a Queens PSAL school. Other program changing misses were Eldon Brand, by Fran, and Levance Fields, by Roberts. If there was any one recruit who might have saved Roberts, it was Fields. I only included players we had a real shot at, where we were the second choice.
In the 60's and 70's, the point man in almost all recruiting was the high school coach, and most guys committed during their senior year, often after their season. Louie had pretty good connections with the CHSAA and PSAL coaches, who were overwhelmingly legit. in the 1980's, ESPN and the AAU people changed the nature of recruiting, with players giving verbals in the freshman year, changing commits often, attending three and even four schools in five years, and tying their recruitment to a job for their AAU mentor.

 

[beast of the east]

[quote="newsman13" post=112534
. (BTW, the Alcindor story that he would have stayed if Lapchick stayed is crap. He took the Gilbert bucks to go to UCLA like the rest of them. Period.)

[/quote]

Not directed to you or any fan in particular, but to be constantly bringing up this Alcindor story every few weeks 50 years after he committed to UCLA is an indicator on just how lame we are collectively.