Villanova Starting Lineup

[lawmanfan]

Well if we're being serious then what I've said from the beginning:

Jordan/Harrison
Sampson/Sanchez/Pointer

IMHO it's just a no-brainer, yet we haven't seen it once.

I like that one the best, just seems so logical. I may switch Obepka for Sanchez tho.

To me that's the tough call. I like Obekpa a lot. He has holes in his game, but they are starting to close and he needs PT to keep making progress on fundamental post defense and on his offensive game. At the moment Sanchez is a much more complete player. He's better equipped to play with Jordan, Harrison and Sampson. Also as long as Dom refuses to be an offensive player except in the open floor, I prefer not to have him him and Obekpa out there together for extended time. So I lean to Sanchez, but I agree there's a case to be made for Obekpa instead.

Agree with the posters who noted that Lavin likes to bring Dom off the bench. It's true that he likes to bring him off the bench. I just don't agree that it's smart to bring him off the bench. He's being left out of the starting lineup so we can start 3 guards, with which I do not agree. And IMHO Phil would make a great 6th man, since he can rotate in for Dom or either of the guard spots and provide some ballhandling and scoring off the bench. And like Dom he is a team player and will fill whatever role he's asked to play, no whining or moping.

Disagree with the posters who would start Branch. There are lots of teams he could start for, but ours isn't one of them. We just don't do things or have enough players for him to do what he does well, nor do we play a style that works well for him. I wouldn't take many minutes away from Harrison or Jordan for him, and i don't think he is better in the swing role than Phil or Dom (whether you look at numbers or look with your eyes).

Gift should play only in case of injuries or severe foul trouble.

Also thank you for the post of the various starting lineups, not one of which was a good idea.

Agree there is an excellent chance we will find Max starting this week. Maybe Coach will get lucky with that, but personally I prefer having a plan, a starting five, a few guys coming off the bench in defined roles, and rolling with that. The multiple-guess starting lineups and substitutions remind me of a guy rolling dice at the craps table hoping something comes up lucky as opposed to a guy at a blackjack table playing solid basic strategy and knowing over time the odds are in his favor.

 

[paultzman]

Well if we're being serious then what I've said from the beginning:

Jordan/Harrison
Sampson/Sanchez/Pointer

IMHO it's just a no-brainer, yet we haven't seen it once.

I like that one the best, just seems so logical. I may switch Obepka for Sanchez tho.

To me that's the tough call. I like Obekpa a lot. He has holes in his game, but they are starting to close and he needs PT to keep making progress on fundamental post defense and on his offensive game. At the moment Sanchez is a much more complete player. He's better equipped to play with Jordan, Harrison and Sampson. Also as long as Dom refuses to be an offensive player except in the open floor, I prefer not to have him him and Obekpa out there together for extended time. So I lean to Sanchez, but I agree there's a case to be made for Obekpa instead.

Agree with the posters who noted that Lavin likes to bring Dom off the bench. It's true that he likes to bring him off the bench. I just don't agree that it's smart to bring him off the bench. He's being left out of the starting lineup so we can start 3 guards, with which I do not agree. And IMHO Phil would make a great 6th man, since he can rotate in for Dom or either of the guard spots and provide some ballhandling and scoring off the bench. And like Dom he is a team player and will fill whatever role he's asked to play, no whining or moping.

Disagree with the posters who would start Branch. There are lots of teams he could start for, but ours isn't one of them. We just don't do things or have enough players for him to do what he does well, nor do we play a style that works well for him. I wouldn't take many minutes away from Harrison or Jordan for him, and i don't think he is better in the swing role than Phil or Dom (whether you look at numbers or look with your eyes).

Gift should play only in case of injuries or severe foul trouble.

Also thank you for the post of the various starting lineups, not one of which was a good idea.

Agree there is an excellent chance we will find Max starting this week. Maybe Coach will get lucky with that, but personally I prefer having a plan, a starting five, a few guys coming off the bench in defined roles, and rolling with that. The multiple-guess starting lineups and substitutions remind me of a guy rolling dice at the craps table hoping something comes up lucky as opposed to a guy at a blackjack table playing solid basic strategy and knowing over time the odds are in his favor.

+1 on last paragraph. A lineup plan would be nice. Instinctive, premonition approach is not a well respected or oft utilized strategy.

 

[beast of the east]

Well if we're being serious then what I've said from the beginning:

Jordan/Harrison
Sampson/Sanchez/Pointer

IMHO it's just a no-brainer, yet we haven't seen it once.

I like that one the best, just seems so logical. I may switch Obepka for Sanchez tho.

To me that's the tough call. I like Obekpa a lot. He has holes in his game, but they are starting to close and he needs PT to keep making progress on fundamental post defense and on his offensive game. At the moment Sanchez is a much more complete player. He's better equipped to play with Jordan, Harrison and Sampson. Also as long as Dom refuses to be an offensive player except in the open floor, I prefer not to have him him and Obekpa out there together for extended time. So I lean to Sanchez, but I agree there's a case to be made for Obekpa instead.

Agree with the posters who noted that Lavin likes to bring Dom off the bench. It's true that he likes to bring him off the bench. I just don't agree that it's smart to bring him off the bench. He's being left out of the starting lineup so we can start 3 guards, with which I do not agree. And IMHO Phil would make a great 6th man, since he can rotate in for Dom or either of the guard spots and provide some ballhandling and scoring off the bench. And like Dom he is a team player and will fill whatever role he's asked to play, no whining or moping.

Disagree with the posters who would start Branch. There are lots of teams he could start for, but ours isn't one of them. We just don't do things or have enough players for him to do what he does well, nor do we play a style that works well for him. I wouldn't take many minutes away from Harrison or Jordan for him, and i don't think he is better in the swing role than Phil or Dom (whether you look at numbers or look with your eyes).

Gift should play only in case of injuries or severe foul trouble.

Also thank you for the post of the various starting lineups, not one of which was a good idea.

Agree there is an excellent chance we will find Max starting this week. Maybe Coach will get lucky with that, but personally I prefer having a plan, a starting five, a few guys coming off the bench in defined roles, and rolling with that. The multiple-guess starting lineups and substitutions remind me of a guy rolling dice at the craps table hoping something comes up lucky as opposed to a guy at a blackjack table playing solid basic strategy and knowing over time the odds are in his favor.

Very good post. your starting lineup is what I suggested, and I do agree that Obekpa must be a major contributor off the bench. branch is an outstanding talent as a backup at point, and last year we saw he could shoot threes as well, but he just isn't the talent that Jordan is. Greene off the bench as 6th man is most capable of providing offense. If we were more capable offensively, I'd love Harrison in that role (6th man) but we just don't have enough offensive firepower to do that.

I think starting Max would be a very bad idea even if it works. He's not a starter, and to keep messing around when its pretty clear who the top 8 players are, is silly. I do believe there could/should be a serious role for Max on this team, and maybe he should be molded into having a shooter's mentality. Unlike many on here, I DO think he has a basketball IQ, and is fundamentally sound even if he doesn't have phenomenal athletic ability that the other players have.

Hopefully the guys whose playing time was sacrificed for Felix, GG, walk-ons will pick it up and get the message. If they do, we may see one heck of a game on Saturday.

 

[SJU1512]

I'd like to see Jordan-Harrison-Branch-Sampson-Obekpa.

I'm tired of Branch and Obekpa hiding. We need them to be aggressive from the jump ball. Sanchez is certainly going to foul out, so they might as well preserve his time on the floor with a late start. I'd be fine with Pointer starting for the same reasons as the two above.

I suspect we'll see GG to start against Pinkston, but that is playing into their game. The best chance to slow down (because they aren't going to stop) Pinkston would be to have Obekpa/Sampson thrown his first few shots back in his face.

I agree about Obekpa being over looked. Not everyone on the court needs to be an offensive force. He needs to get more minutes I think he has played well.

Great points in both comments. Too much focus sometimes on which players don't bring enough on offense for us. We haven't been a good half-court offensive team even with our best offensive lineup on the floor. We have been at our best offensively in transition, and transition offense starts on defense. At the current juncture there is at least as strong of an argument to have a defense-first team out there as much as an offense-first lineup.

I'm not advocating for Balamou, Pointer, and Obekpa to be out there together. You have to have balance and can't be asking "who is going to score" as we were forced to multiple times in both the Xavier and GTown games. But Obekpa in particular should be close to beyond reproach when it comes to what he does or doesn't do offensviely, because frankly anything he does on offense is just a bonus. We don't give soft stuff at the rim when he's on the court and I don't know if there is anything that energizes our group as much as him blocking shots. We need to commit to him for 25 minutes per game at a minimum.

I am not knocking Obekpa but this idea that we don't give up easy baskets because of his blocks is a huge myth. No team we have played has shied away from going down low because of his ability to block shots. They realize we don't rotate or rebound hard so put backs are a good possibility even when he blocks or alters shots.

Sure. There have been few shot-blockers in the history of the game that are so dominant that they completely deter teams from attacking the rim. But when Obekpa is in more of those shots get blocked or altered than when he isn't in.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution. No doubt, when he goes for the block and doesn't get it the weak side is exposed. But I'd rather live with that and have us playing aggressively defensively than doing very little at all on that end of the court, as has largely been the case since USF. Not to mention the upside of energizing the team and getting things going off blocks/misses the other way in transition.

We aren't a complete enough team to be picky, we have to identify elements certain players bring that make us better and live with the deficiencies. That doesn't just relate to Obekpa but the entire team. But with respect to Obekpa, whatever his shot-blocking specific impact is or isn't, the proof is in the pudding that we are a better defensive team with him on the floor. He played 20 or more every game between Bucknell and USF and the only team to touch 70 was PSU in OT. We've scaled back on his minutes for whatever reason since then and 3 of the last 4 teams have hit 70. The only that didn't was Columbia, and in that game - his lowest minutes total of the season and the only he hasn't recorded a block all year - we squeaked by a bad Ivy League team.

I'm not trying to confuse causation with correlation. I just think we're in a position where we have to focus on what players can bring to the table, as we aren't good enough to have the luxury of worrying about what they don't.

 

[lawmanfan]

Beast: Actually, that lineup is what I suggested, and you agreed with.

Well if we're being serious then what I've said from the beginning:

Jordan/Harrison
Sampson/Sanchez/Pointer

IMHO it's just a no-brainer, yet we haven't seen it once.

Agreed this should be the lineup. Is this true that this hasn't been the starting lineup once this year?

For my money GG doesn't see any appreciable time unless foul trouble.

Bench rotation should be Obekpa, Greene, Branch. Hooper deserves a look based on g-town g-time performance.

 

[logen]

Well if we're being serious then what I've said from the beginning:

Jordan/Harrison
Sampson/Sanchez/Pointer

IMHO it's just a no-brainer, yet we haven't seen it once.

I like that one the best, just seems so logical. I may switch Obepka for Sanchez tho.

To me that's the tough call. I like Obekpa a lot. He has holes in his game, but they are starting to close and he needs PT to keep making progress on fundamental post defense and on his offensive game. At the moment Sanchez is a much more complete player. He's better equipped to play with Jordan, Harrison and Sampson. Also as long as Dom refuses to be an offensive player except in the open floor, I prefer not to have him him and Obekpa out there together for extended time. So I lean to Sanchez, but I agree there's a case to be made for Obekpa instead.

Agree with the posters who noted that Lavin likes to bring Dom off the bench. It's true that he likes to bring him off the bench. I just don't agree that it's smart to bring him off the bench. He's being left out of the starting lineup so we can start 3 guards, with which I do not agree. And IMHO Phil would make a great 6th man, since he can rotate in for Dom or either of the guard spots and provide some ballhandling and scoring off the bench. And like Dom he is a team player and will fill whatever role he's asked to play, no whining or moping.

Disagree with the posters who would start Branch. There are lots of teams he could start for, but ours isn't one of them. We just don't do things or have enough players for him to do what he does well, nor do we play a style that works well for him. I wouldn't take many minutes away from Harrison or Jordan for him, and i don't think he is better in the swing role than Phil or Dom (whether you look at numbers or look with your eyes).

Gift should play only in case of injuries or severe foul trouble.

Also thank you for the post of the various starting lineups, not one of which was a good idea.

Agree there is an excellent chance we will find Max starting this week. Maybe Coach will get lucky with that, but personally I prefer having a plan, a starting five, a few guys coming off the bench in defined roles, and rolling with that. The multiple-guess starting lineups and substitutions remind me of a guy rolling dice at the craps table hoping something comes up lucky as opposed to a guy at a blackjack table playing solid basic strategy and knowing over time the odds are in his favor.

Very good post. your starting lineup is what I suggested, and I do agree that Obekpa must be a major contributor off the bench. branch is an outstanding talent as a backup at point, and last year we saw he could shoot threes as well, but he just isn't the talent that Jordan is. Greene off the bench as 6th man is most capable of providing offense. If we were more capable offensively, I'd love Harrison in that role (6th man) but we just don't have enough offensive firepower to do that.

I think starting Max would be a very bad idea even if it works. He's not a starter, and to keep messing around when its pretty clear who the top 8 players are, is silly. I do believe there could/should be a serious role for Max on this team, and maybe he should be molded into having a shooter's mentality. Unlike many on here, I DO think he has a basketball IQ, and is fundamentally sound even if he doesn't have phenomenal athletic ability that the other players have.

Hopefully the guys whose playing time was sacrificed for Felix, GG, walk-ons will pick it up and get the message. If they do, we may see one heck of a game on Saturday.

Again, playing players just because they have phenomenal athletic ability seems to me to have been tried for the better part of 21/2 years and IMO has not worked out all that well. Maybe, just maybe, it is time to sprinkle that athleticism with some shooting and fundamentally sound intelligent basketball and see what happens. No guarantees but just try it. Amazing how other teams can win with non-Olympic level athletes do it but we have to play our best track team.

 

[beast of the east]

Beast: Actually, that lineup is what I suggested, and you agreed with.

Well if we're being serious then what I've said from the beginning:

Jordan/Harrison
Sampson/Sanchez/Pointer

IMHO it's just a no-brainer, yet we haven't seen it once.

Agreed this should be the lineup. Is this true that this hasn't been the starting lineup once this year?

For my money GG doesn't see any appreciable time unless foul trouble.

Bench rotation should be Obekpa, Greene, Branch. Hooper deserves a look based on g-town g-time performance.

That's correct. Sorry to state it poorly. But I agree with you. That should be the starting 5

 

[lawmanfan]

Again, playing players just because they have phenomenal athletic ability seems to me to have been tried for the better part of 21/2 years and IMO has not worked out all that well. Maybe, just maybe, it is time to sprinkle that athleticism with some shooting and fundamentally sound intelligent basketball and see what happens. No guarantees but just try it. Amazing how other teams can win with non-Olympic level athletes do it but we have to play our best track team.

I don't entirely disagree with you. I would rather see us out-basketball people than out-athlete them, but the latter is plainly the Lavin philosophy.

The problem is that the players you have in mind are ones who fit into roles in a system that creates opportunities for them. We don't have either roles or a system, so when you put them out there they are mostly just lost. So if we're going to play the "style" we've been playing, there's no sense in putting guys out there who don't fit.

Again, it's not what I would prefer, but I think it's what is.

 

[logen]

Again, playing players just because they have phenomenal athletic ability seems to me to have been tried for the better part of 21/2 years and IMO has not worked out all that well. Maybe, just maybe, it is time to sprinkle that athleticism with some shooting and fundamentally sound intelligent basketball and see what happens. No guarantees but just try it. Amazing how other teams can win with non-Olympic level athletes do it but we have to play our best track team.

I don't entirely disagree with you. I would rather see us out-basketball people than out-athlete them, but the latter is plainly the Lavin philosophy.

The problem is that the players you have in mind are ones who fit into roles in a system that creates opportunities for them. We don't have either roles or a system, so when you put them out there they are mostly just lost. So if we're going to play the "style" we've been playing, there's no sense in putting guys out there who don't fit.

Again, it's not what I would prefer, but I think it's what is.

Well, you make an excellent point; frankly one hard to argue. I guess my best reply would be that by playing a team first player you would hope that might rub off on other players. Maybe he gets hot at some meaningful point in a game and some of the players start to see that sharing the ball might lead to some good things. I know I may have beat the Hooper thing to death but I have always believed the small things win games. For instance, he is the only player on the team who will catch the ball and pass without holding it or dribbling first. Ball movement against a zone is paramount and yet we don't have a player among our "athletic" nine who does that...ever. I see him point and talk on D, something you rarely ever see from the core. Maybe because I was a 5'9'' point guard who played at a relatively decent level of ball in another era I put more stock in the team concept rather than the individual skill. Whatever, I know I think this is broken more than most but I don't see this team as currently constituted and coached every becoming a serious player. I realize we have athletic talent and should we hit our shots we could definetly beat Nova; but I can never see this current group becoming consistent enough to really turn this around. I understand it might not make a difference that maybe Hooper will have no real impact but to me, it is desperation time and I think we have to try something to change the mojo, create some chemistry. I'm all ears for other suggestions but this idea of hey, it's only December; hey, it's only January, is old to me. I have watched this glorified AAU ball for a couple of years now and it just doesn't play at this level.

 

[REB]

Well if we're being serious then what I've said from the beginning:

Jordan/Harrison
Sampson/Sanchez/Pointer

IMHO it's just a no-brainer, yet we haven't seen it once.

I like that one the best, just seems so logical. I may switch Obepka for Sanchez tho.

To me that's the tough call. I like Obekpa a lot. He has holes in his game, but they are starting to close and he needs PT to keep making progress on fundamental post defense and on his offensive game. At the moment Sanchez is a much more complete player. He's better equipped to play with Jordan, Harrison and Sampson. Also as long as Dom refuses to be an offensive player except in the open floor, I prefer not to have him him and Obekpa out there together for extended time. So I lean to Sanchez, but I agree there's a case to be made for Obekpa instead.

Agree with the posters who noted that Lavin likes to bring Dom off the bench. It's true that he likes to bring him off the bench. I just don't agree that it's smart to bring him off the bench. He's being left out of the starting lineup so we can start 3 guards, with which I do not agree. And IMHO Phil would make a great 6th man, since he can rotate in for Dom or either of the guard spots and provide some ballhandling and scoring off the bench. And like Dom he is a team player and will fill whatever role he's asked to play, no whining or moping.

Disagree with the posters who would start Branch. There are lots of teams he could start for, but ours isn't one of them. We just don't do things or have enough players for him to do what he does well, nor do we play a style that works well for him. I wouldn't take many minutes away from Harrison or Jordan for him, and i don't think he is better in the swing role than Phil or Dom (whether you look at numbers or look with your eyes).

Gift should play only in case of injuries or severe foul trouble.

Also thank you for the post of the various starting lineups, not one of which was a good idea.

Agree there is an excellent chance we will find Max starting this week. Maybe Coach will get lucky with that, but personally I prefer having a plan, a starting five, a few guys coming off the bench in defined roles, and rolling with that. The multiple-guess starting lineups and substitutions remind me of a guy rolling dice at the craps table hoping something comes up lucky as opposed to a guy at a blackjack table playing solid basic strategy and knowing over time the odds are in his favor.

I completely agree with your post LMF. Same lineup I suggested in the earlier "lineup" thread. Also made the point that PG IV and Obekpa should come into the game together whenever possible. That way you replace a defensively oriented SF Pointer and a more offensively skilled C Sanchez with an offensive Greene and a defensive CO. That leaves you with enough offense on the floor when Obekpa is playing. Also wholeheartedly endorse having a set lineup and rotations so the team knows what to expect and understands their respective roles. I do think Hooper should be part of the rotation. I know they're not very good at running plays for him but they do have a couple and when they've actually run them a few times he's gotten open looks and done damage. I particularly recall one instance in which they ran him off a double screen down low, and he popped out above the head of the key and drained a three. Looked like he could have done it all day if they kept running it for him. It's Lavin's job to make them run the plays for him when he's on the floor!

 

[red0356]

Oh the irony of this thread...

All I keep reading about is how dumb Lavin is that he can't see the obvious starting lineup when everyone else does and now we have a thread (5 pages long) on everyone's custom lineup!!!

I think we can all agree that the following three NEED to start:
Jordan
Harrison
Sampson

After that it's tough to argue with any of the following for the final two spots:
Branch
Sanchez
Green
Pointer

Noone else should start, period. (Balamou, Godsgift, Hooper, etc)

My personal favorite is:
Harrison
Jordan
Obekpa
Sampson
Branch

 

[ras]

Oh the irony of this thread...

All I keep reading about is how dumb Lavin is that he can't see the obvious starting lineup when everyone else does and now we have a thread (5 pages long) on everyone's custom lineup!!!

I think we can all agree that the following three NEED to start:
Jordan
Harrison
Sampson

After that it's tough to argue with any of the following for the final two spots:
Branch
Sanchez
Green
Pointer

Noone else should start, period. (Balamou, Godsgift, Hooper, etc)

My personal favorite is:
Harrison
Jordan
Obekpa
Sampson
Branch

I basically agree w what you said, but I wouldn't start branch, but I would play him when Sheed is on the bench. I wouldn't start Hooper, but after Saturdays performance I would not be disappointed if he starts, it would open things up for the others.

 

[gregbodkin]

Oh the irony of this thread...

All I keep reading about is how dumb Lavin is that he can't see the obvious starting lineup when everyone else does and now we have a thread (5 pages long) on everyone's custom lineup!!!

I think we can all agree that the following three NEED to start:
Jordan
Harrison
Sampson

After that it's tough to argue with any of the following for the final two spots:
Branch
Sanchez
Green
Pointer

Noone else should start, period. (Balamou, Godsgift, Hooper, etc)

My personal favorite is:
Harrison
Jordan
Obekpa
Sampson
Branch

I like your line up except I would like to see Hooper instead of Branch. Keep that outside threat and draw the D out to break up the zone that we have such a hard time with.