Villanova (MSG), Wed., Jan. 24, 8:30p, FS-1

[Mullins Revenge]

I know I'm going to get savaged for this but some of Luis' shot selections remind me of Jones last year, taking quick ill advised 3s and drives into traffic. At one point in the second half he jacked up a quick long range 3, Rick ran down the sidelines and yanked him.

I think RJ's got loads of talent and I'm glad he's here, but he needs some discipline.

Why would you get savaged? Luis has been disappointing. He drives to the hole and just jacks up shots. never looks to pass the ball. Isnt great from 3.

If we are going to call out certain players all the time, then lets just call out everyone who could be called out.

You want me to start on Dingle?

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Funny that you should reply to my post with a Bob Sheppard story because I also have one. I worked years ago with an engineer who was a SERIOUS FANATICAL DIE HARD Yankee fan, I mean a legit live or die absolute nut!! We remain friends to this day.
His fiancée wrote Sheppard asking if he would accept an invitation to the wedding and introduce the wedding party “Yankee player introduction style”, for which she would pay whatever fee he would charge for the public appearance. He replied he couldn’t attend but would be glad to record the intros free of charge, which he did superbly. Blew John away when it played and Natalie has been forced to listen to it every year since on their anniversary.

That is a great , great story about Bob Sheppard . How Special that the “ Voice of God,” had a role in their Wedding .

I didn’t mention it but , most of us know that Bob also was the PA Announcer at Giant football games too .

None like him , will we see or hear again .

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

That is a great , great story about Bob Sheppard . How Special that the “ Voice of God,” had a role in their Wedding .

I didn’t mention it but , most of us know that Bob also was the PA Announcer at Giant football games too .

None like him , will we see or hear again .

And a true gentleman, a real honor to have him connected to St. John's University.

 

[Hardy]

So I have a question for you. Why are Joel Soriano and Rick Pitino both demanding Jenkins to shoot more after he clanked those 3s in the first half?

The answer is because Joel and Rick both understand that we need our guards to produce from the perimeter to open up the rest of our offense (Joel post ups, offensive rebounding)

If we can’t produce from the perimeter, teams are gonna treat us like the New York Giants, stack the box, don’t let Barkley beat you, and the rest will fall into place.

The numbers from Dingle, Alleyne, Jenkins and Wilcher leave a lot to be desired so far in terms of shooting, but I don’t think the answer is stop trying.

Jenkins was 1-5 from 3 the other night, anyone realize that means he had our best 3pt shooting from a guard in the whole game? (dingle 0-5) (Wilcher 0-0)

Are we supposed to just give up on shooting 3s? Or just trust dingle will get it together so give him all of Jenkins shots?

Jenkins does take a couple bad shots a game but we can’t just punt on our guards ever producing offense from the perimeter. You yourself have noted how great it is when we have Joel, ledlum and Luis all down there fighting for rebounds. For that to happen, sometimes a shot has to go up from one of our guards. If Jenkins the one to do it so be it

And the shot they were talking about: Jenkins shot a 3, missed, SJU corralled the rebound and passed it back out to jenkins who was wide open with his feet set for another 3, but he didn't take it. A wide open 3, when we have rebounders in position, isn't a bad shot even from a guy shooting 30% from 3. He's probably a higher percentage shooter with his feet set and wide open, plus we have a good chance of grabbing the board if he misses. That is why soriano/pitino were telling him to shoot.

The bad shots are contested 3s, early in the shot clock before soriano/ledlum can get in position.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Talking about Minko has got me thinking back to Bob Sheppard , the Yankee PA Announcer for over 50 years and a St John’s Speech Professor at one time .

I think it was in the 80’s that Bob/ a/k/a Voice of God , did some BB games as our PA Announcer .
I seem to recall it might have been in the MulBerry era .

Nobody could do PA Announcing like Bob Sheppard . But , I also liked John Condon who was MSG PA Announcer for many years .

John would announce the player who scored the basket and also the score . Terrific way he had presenting it .

He would say “ that was Chris Mullin , St John’s leads 40-36. “

John Condon was a pleasure to listen to and a St. John's fan.

 

[carmineabbatiello]

The bottom line here is statistically you just can’t justify what Jenkins is doing.

The bottom line here is that either Daniss leads us to the Ncaa tournament and at the last Big East tournament presser he goes "and to all the haters on redmen.com, you know who you are, Kiss my A$$". Your repetitive nonsense having been ashamedly exposed. Or, you get to say "I told you so" for ever, and ever, and ever. P.S. I by no means meant to throw shade at Luis, who I naturally adore. Just presenting slam dunk arguments via numbers.

 

[paultzman]

The bottom line here is that either Daniss leads us to the Ncaa tournament and at the last Big East tournament presser he goes "and to all the haters on redmen.com, you know who you are, Kiss my A$$". Your repetitive nonsense having been ashamedly exposed. Or, you get to say "I told you so" for ever, and ever, and ever. P.S. I by no means meant to throw shade at Luis, who I naturally adore. Just presenting slam dunk arguments via numbers.

nm

 

[Larry Wright]

The bottom line here is that either Daniss leads us to the Ncaa tournament and at the last Big East tournament presser he goes "and to all the haters on redmen.com, you know who you are, Kiss my A$$". Your repetitive nonsense having been ashamedly exposed. Or, you get to say "I told you so" for ever, and ever, and ever. P.S. I by no means meant to throw shade at Luis, who I naturally adore. Just presenting slam dunk arguments via numbers.

You used another inefficient player to justify Jenkins stats. But again my main issue is that he is a point guard who shoots too much and is inefficient. If he wasn’t a point guard I personally wouldn’t care same as I don’t get bothered by Luis.

 

[Section9]

Agree, but I also fear going too far in the other direction with that.

Explosiveness is a big part of his game. I don't want him losing that completely.

He's a big boy, he needs to be able to channel that part of his game and learn to play within a team context. Rick's going to give him a long enough leash, RJ's smart enough to figure it out.

 

[mjmaherjr]

You used another inefficient player to justify Jenkins stats. But again my main issue is that he is a point guard who shoots too much and is inefficient. If he wasn’t a point guard I personally wouldn’t care same as I don’t get bothered by Luis.

What’s his assists to turnovers relative to the other big east guards at this point ? I have no idea

 

[Knight]

My Bob Sheppard story--
I met him when he did the PA announcing for the SJU Club Football team in the early 70's. I walked into the booth and heard his voice and was a little star struck by the voice I had heard most of my like at Yankee Stadium and on TV broadcasts. He was truly a kind and gentleman and quickly made me feel at ease. Another of the great SJU people that I have encountered over the years.

 

[lawmanfan]

You know guys, multiple things can all be true:

1. Pitino would like the team to take more 3s
2. There are good 3s and bad 3s
3. Jenkins is a productive player
4. The ball sticks to Jenkins hands too long sometimes, resulting in too many shots for him and not enough for others who might be more productive with those opportunities.
5. RJ Luis has a world of physical ability.
6. RJ Luis needs to make much better decisions in a variety of ways.
7. Ledlum is undersized to play PF and struggles to score against longer bigs at this level
8. Ledlum is a beast as a rebounder, an excellent defender as long as he isn't in too bad of a length mismatch, and makes your team better
9. Glenn Taylor is a tremendous defender and makes excellent decisions about when to shoot.
10. The team would benefit if Glenn Taylor were more aggressive offensively

I could go on. But the point is that no player is perfect, and the fact that there are criticisms of some things a player does is not equal to trashing the player or not appreciating that there are other things the player does well.

My own beef with Jenkins is really #4 - most of his points are coming at the expense of other players who would get the ball in better positions and would very likely be more efficient than he is if they did EXCEPT that he is not a pass-first point guard and thus his offense comes at the expense of others who I believe would be more productive if he let go of the ball sooner. So he's productive personally, but I think the team as a whole would be more productive if more of those opportunities went elsewhere.

If you're going to criticize Dingle, then you have to start with Pitino and Jenkins. Dingle is a player who has spent his life with the ball in his hands being a scorer. He's just a poor fit for the system here, and that is compounded by Pitino playing him with Jenkins which is probably not a pairing that can work (unless Pitino takes Jenkins off the ball, which he isn't going to do).

Dingle would be fine playing the "point," to the extent we want to call Jenkins a point guard then given the same minutes and opportunities it wouldn't surprise me if Dingle were more productive at the position than he is. Otherwise the pairings should be Jenkins with Taylor and Dingle with Alleyne. You could swap Taylor and Alleyne, doesn't matter - the point is that if you want Dingle to be an offensive player then you need to pair him with a guard who doesn't need the ball and give him enough minutes to get into a groove. That hasn't happened for him here, and frankly I feel badly for him. I guess you could critique him for not adjusting, although Pitino seems to think he has based on his comments the other day.

Also for those who somehow forgot - Ponds was a TREMENDOUS player. Could be a little lazy with his feet defensively, but unstoppable with the ball - one of those players who was worth the price of the ticket to watch. There isn't anybody on this team who belongs in that conversation.

 

[Larry Wright]

What’s his assists to turnovers relative to the other big east guards at this point ? I have no idea

It’s the FGA and his %
He is ball dominant but I generally trust him with the ball.

The early in the shot clock shots-before anyone particularly Soriano gets a touch and the
over dribbling then I guess I have to shoot because clock winding down thing is annoying as well

 

[paultzman]

You know guys, multiple things can all be true:

1. Pitino would like the team to take more 3s
2. There are good 3s and bad 3s
3. Jenkins is a productive player
4. The ball sticks to Jenkins hands too long sometimes, resulting in too many shots for him and not enough for others who might be more productive with those opportunities.
5. RJ Luis has a world of physical ability.
6. RJ Luis needs to make much better decisions in a variety of ways.
7. Ledlum is undersized to play PF and struggles to score against longer bigs at this level
8. Ledlum is a beast as a rebounder, an excellent defender as long as he isn't in too bad of a length mismatch, and makes your team better
9. Glenn Taylor is a tremendous defender and makes excellent decisions about when to shoot.
10. The team would benefit if Glenn Taylor were more aggressive offensively

I could go on. But the point is that no player is perfect, and the fact that there are criticisms of some things a player does is not equal to trashing the player or not appreciating that there are other things the player does well.

My own beef with Jenkins is really #4 - most of his points are coming at the expense of other players who would get the ball in better positions and would very likely be more efficient than he is if they did EXCEPT that he is not a pass-first point guard and thus his offense comes at the expense of others would I believe would be more productive if he let go of the ball sooner. So he's productive personally, but I think the team as a whole would be more productive if more of those opportunities went elsewhere.

If you're going to criticize Dingle, then you have to start with Pitino and Jenkins. Dingle is a player who has spent his life with the ball in his hands being a scorer. He's just a poor fit for the system here, and that is compounded by Pitino playing him with Jenkins which is probably not a pairing that can work (unless Pitino takes Jenkins off the ball, which he isn't going to do).

Dingle would be fine playing the "point," to the extent we want to call Jenkins a point guard then given the same minutes and opportunities it wouldn't surprise me if Dingle were more productive at the position than he is. Otherwise the pairings should be Jenkins with Taylor and Dingle with Alleyne. You could swap Taylor and Alleyne, doesn't matter - the point is that if you want Dingle to be an offensive player then you need to pair him with a guard who doesn't need the ball and give him enough minutes to get into a groove. That hasn't happened for him here, and frankly I feel badly for him. I guess you could critique him for not adjusting, although Pitino seems to think he has based on his comments the other day.

Also for those who somehow forgot - Ponds was a TREMENDOUS player. Could be a little lazy with his feet defensively, but unstoppable with the ball - one of those players who was worth the price of the ticket to watch. There isn't anybody on this team who belongs in that conversation.

Stop being rational and insightful

 

[mjmaherjr]

It’s the FGA and his %
He is ball dominant but I generally trust him with the ball.

The early in the shot clock shots-before anyone particularly Soriano gets a touch and the
over dribbling the I guess I have to shoot because clock winding down thing is annoying as well

Some games her over dribbles I had this debate with lawman last gane. He absolutely didn’t over dribble. But if he’s getting assists that’s a measurable stat: if his shooting % is low that’s measurable but we are the top offensive rebounding team in the country. Let’s say he takes a 3 he misses and Ledlum grabs the rebound and scores. Was it a bad shot ?

 

[paultzman]

Some interesting observations as you scroll down

 

[kranmars]

You know guys, multiple things can all be true:

1. Pitino would like the team to take more 3s
2. There are good 3s and bad 3s
3. Jenkins is a productive player
4. The ball sticks to Jenkins hands too long sometimes, resulting in too many shots for him and not enough for others who might be more productive with those opportunities.
5. RJ Luis has a world of physical ability.
6. RJ Luis needs to make much better decisions in a variety of ways.
7. Ledlum is undersized to play PF and struggles to score against longer bigs at this level
8. Ledlum is a beast as a rebounder, an excellent defender as long as he isn't in too bad of a length mismatch, and makes your team better
9. Glenn Taylor is a tremendous defender and makes excellent decisions about when to shoot.
10. The team would benefit if Glenn Taylor were more aggressive offensively

I could go on. But the point is that no player is perfect, and the fact that there are criticisms of some things a player does is not equal to trashing the player or not appreciating that there are other things the player does well.

My own beef with Jenkins is really #4 - most of his points are coming at the expense of other players who would get the ball in better positions and would very likely be more efficient than he is if they did EXCEPT that he is not a pass-first point guard and thus his offense comes at the expense of others would I believe would be more productive if he let go of the ball sooner. So he's productive personally, but I think the team as a whole would be more productive if more of those opportunities went elsewhere.

If you're going to criticize Dingle, then you have to start with Pitino and Jenkins. Dingle is a player who has spent his life with the ball in his hands being a scorer. He's just a poor fit for the system here, and that is compounded by Pitino playing him with Jenkins which is probably not a pairing that can work (unless Pitino takes Jenkins off the ball, which he isn't going to do).

Dingle would be fine playing the "point," to the extent we want to call Jenkins a point guard then given the same minutes and opportunities it wouldn't surprise me if Dingle were more productive at the position than he is. Otherwise the pairings should be Jenkins with Taylor and Dingle with Alleyne. You could swap Taylor and Alleyne, doesn't matter - the point is that if you want Dingle to be an offensive player then you need to pair him with a guard who doesn't need the ball and give him enough minutes to get into a groove. That hasn't happened for him here, and frankly I feel badly for him. Though I guess you could critique him for not adjusting, although Pitino seems to think he has based on his comments the other day.

Also for those who somehow forgot - Ponds was a TREMENDOUS player. Could be a little lazy with his feet defensively, but unstoppable with the ball - one of those players who was worth the price of the ticket to watch. There isn't anybody on this team who belongs in that conversation.

Now this post filled with lots of words - even a few in all caps and any additional relevant points in a numbered list form, is the lawmanfan we have all come to admire throughout the years.

 

[Larry Wright]

Some games her over dribbles I had this debate with lawman last gane. He absolutely didn’t over dribble. But if he’s getting assists that’s a measurable stat: if his shooting % is low that’s measurable but we are the top offensive rebounding team in the country. Let’s say he takes a 3 he misses and Ledlum grabs the rebound and scores. Was it a bad shot ?

Yes
Only if you are playing nerf basketball against your young son is shooting just to get the rebound a good play.

 

[Delaware]

Another Bob Sheppard story. I was umpiring the NY State Little League Championships in Staten Island years ago. The year 14 year old Danny Almonte pitched illegally for the Bronx team (found out after the LL World Series ended).

The host team had an announcer that sounded exactly like Bob Sheppard. I couldn't wait to get off the field the 1st game to finally meet Bob Sheppard. So I rushed back to the PA tower after the game, only to find a young man doing the announcing. Like everyine else, I complimented him on his announcing work, and asked him if he had ever been in touch with the Yankees about replacing Bob Sheppard when he retires. He told me he had sent a demo tape to the Yankees, but they told him they wanted a diffferet sounding voice after Bob Sheppard retired. So that's as close as this diehard Yankees fan came to meeting Bob Sheppard.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Yes
Only if you are playing nerf basketball against your young son is shooting just to get the rebound a good play.

But what’s the difference between him throwing low to Ledlum for an assist or him missing Ledlum grabbing rebound and scoring ? It’s the same 2 points

And Rick said on the press conference him and Joel yelled at him for not taking a 3. When you have the best offensive rebounding team in the country it matters a lot less and he’s listening to coach