Vaccaro sums it up

bobo

Active member
Vaccaro, as usual is right on the money.

http://nypost.com/2015/03/12/st-johns-seniors-lavin-on-verge-of-leaving-empty-legacy/

Look, at some point, it simply isn’t enough to perform with class on the floor and to carry yourself with dignity off it if there’s no payoff on the scoreboard. At some point, it gets old hearing about overcoming obstacles and battling injuries and quieting doubters.

At some point, the basketball has to be the equal of the behavior.

And at this point – this critical tipping point in St. John’s basketball history – it simply is not. Not after a second straight inexplicable, inexcusable first-half no-show in their Big East Tournament opener Thursday afternoon. Not after Providence, for a second straight year, chased the Johnnies off the Garden floor, this time by a 74-57 score that felt worse, so much worse, than that.

“They established a tone early,” St. John’s coach Steve Lavin said. “And we couldn’t ever reverse that.”

“We were playing for some pride,” Providence coach Ed Cooley said, and it would have been nice if the team on the other side of the floor had done the same.

For a second straight year, St. John’s core – which we laud constantly for being unflappable, resilient, tough, all of that – were positively ransacked by a Friars team they’d already beaten twice, and unlike last year there wasn’t even a token run to make it feel artificially close.

For a second straight year, Cooley so outcoached Steve Lavin that the mismatch wasn’t even worthy of the old checkers-versus-chess comparison, but more accurately backgammon-versus-Candyland.

We keep wanting to praise this senior class, keep waiting for them to seize and embrace a moment, any moment, and instead they are now 0-for-their careers in the Big East Tournament, four losses in four years in four opening-round games by an average of 12 points a pop. All of them at the Garden, which is supposed to be their home office.

“We just couldn’t buy a shot,” said Jamal Branch, one of the seniors, “and they couldn’t miss.”

Now, those seniors get one last opportunity to salvage some kind of legacy for themselves. It is still OK to say they deserve that chance for all they’ve done in bringing stability and pride back to Utopia Parkway, but it is equally fair to be brutally honest about it:

They’d better show up in the NCAA Tournament next week.

They’d better be better than they’ve been in every other high-stakes game they’ve played these last four years, or else their legacy will be tarnished, and Lavin’s legacy will be defined by this: he’s been able to win one post-season game in five years – and even that was with Norm Roberts’ players. He may yearn for more than that. The players may well deserve better than that.

But at some point you have to concede something:

The scoreboard doesn’t lie. And neither does the record book.

“I have to give them some perspective,” Lavin said. “I’ve had teams that lost their conference tournament game, and we were able to bounce back right away.”

He has no choice and neither do they; he has to get these players to buy into that. They didn’t exactly make their mission easy, either. A win against Providence Thursday and there is a good chance the Johnnies could’ve climbed as high as a 7 seed in one of the four brackets. Now? The committee watches these games. Would it surprise you if they fell to a 10? Or even an 11?

And if that happens, how could you argue with it?

“We have to get ready for out next game,” Lavin said.

They have been good kids, quality players, excellent ambassadors. They have won a lot of basketball games in their time here. But they’ve lost a lot of them, too, including almost every single one that would have defined their time here as something other than game, gentlemanly competitors.

They have one more chance. No more mulligans. No more do-overs. It’s in their hands, all of it, starting Sunday, when they find out where the journey starts. And, if they aren’t careful, where it’ll end.
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable
Regarding your last point on time outs, Lav likes to call them after we score & ........:)
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable
Regarding your last point on time outs, Lav likes to call them after we score & ........:)

Lol. True. Shame of the players for not scoring so Lav could kill the momentum :cheer:
 
This article was posted yesterday in a separate game thread. Vaccaro does not deserve this much attention on redmen.com. He's a phony.
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable

There were 2 things that made no sense to me yesterday. First, why is RySheed not in the starting lineup? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever and his explanation after the game makes even less sense. Second, how do you not call a timeout there? Your team is getting destroyed on the floor and you decide to let them play through it.
 
This article was posted yesterday in a separate game thread. Vaccaro does not deserve this much attention on redmen.com. He's a phony.

Don't know anything about the guy personally but his articles have been on point
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable

There were 2 things that made no sense to me yesterday. First, why is RySheed not in the starting lineup? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever and his explanation after the game makes even less sense. Second, how do you not call a timeout there? Your team is getting destroyed on the floor and you decide to let them play through it.
Just another "teaching opportunity" perhaps. :)
 
Vaccaro is a phony? He praises STJ when they do something well, and writes a dead on piece like this when they stink the joint up.
 
He's one of the few columnists in town that cares about college basketball, and he's always fair to SJU. His column is right on the money.
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable
Regarding your last point on time outs, Lav likes to call them after we score & ........:)

Has he ever explained why he does that? And I mean HIS explanation. I'm sure a lot of posters here have their own opinion on why he does that! ;)
 
Is it unreasonable to think that this is a tired hurting team thats playing all year with a short roster?. The guys overachieved. A rough spot figured to come along and vs. Nova was mission impossible. Providence picked up from the run that came up short vs. Butler, and we continued the funk that was the Nova game. If the guys regain their legs a good showing in round 1 of the tourny can happen. This is however the same team all agreed at 3-6 was short players. Me, I figured we would finish up games with walkons and 7-11 would be achieved only if the guys didn't quit. Sure, I was sick the way Providence kicked us around, but I can't get down on the players. They came back from the dead, with a team that was lacking to get in. Now I hope CO can feel good enough to help carry the load.
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable
Cooley's big adjustment was going big for most of the game w/Bentil, Henton, Derosiers and Harris. The latter, in particular, played more than he played in prior games...they pressured the ball and we panicked instead of trying to spread them out, penetrate and dish...as a result, you did not see one (nada) instance where Greene got the ball in the corner with feet set where he is extremely reliable...most of hist shots were on the move where is not nearly as effective...
 
Is it unreasonable to think that this is a tired hurting team thats playing all year with a short roster?. The guys overachieved. A rough spot figured to come along and vs. Nova was mission impossible. Providence picked up from the run that came up short vs. Butler, and we continued the funk that was the Nova game. If the guys regain their legs a good showing in round 1 of the tourny can happen. This is however the same team all agreed at 3-6 was short players. Me, I figured we would finish up games with walkons and 7-11 would be achieved only if the guys didn't quit. Sure, I was sick the way Providence kicked us around, but I can't get down on the players. They came back from the dead, with a team that was lacking to get in. Now I hope CO can feel good enough to help carry the load.
Too many players, not enough players, they were too tired-they are 20 years old and hadn't played a game in 5 days what do you want to do put them in an old age home? Will the excuses never cease?
 
Cooley out coached Lavin.

But if you are Lavin what do you do the week leading up to the game ? We beat them twice. Do it again.

Meanwhile the friars and Cooley are spending all week trying to see what they did wrong and fixing it. At the end of the day this game was on the players. How they lacked intensity when we got schooled by them last year in the BET was crazy. Took them until it was too late to decide to penetrate.

As SJU1512 said in another thread, the only mistake Lavin did was not calling a timeout when that crazy run happened. That was inexcusable
Cooley's big adjustment was going big for most of the game w/Bentil, Henton, Derosiers and Harris. The latter, in particular, played more than he played in prior games...they pressured the ball and we panicked instead of trying to spread them out, penetrate and dish...as a result, you did not see one (nada) instance where Greene got the ball in the corner with feet set where he is extremely reliable...most of hist shots were on the move where is not nearly as effective...

Cooley's adjustment was not guarding Pointer. St. Johns isn't going to win if the next team we face plays 5feet off Pointer and he doesn't shoot a 15 foot jumper from the foul line.
 
Vaccaro is a phony? He praises STJ when they do something well, and writes a dead on piece like this when they stink the joint up.

There is nothing Vaccaro wrote that was not mentioned a hundred times in various threads here! As a journalist I expected some insight but there was none imo. In poo pooing the seniors performance in the Big East tourney he unfairly singles out these four as if they were the reason for losing one freaking game in each of the 4 years they played here or, since records don't lie, as he stated, for a total of 4 games in single round elimination games they played. We that have witnessed all 120+ games they have played know that they have been as much the victims of various circumstances as they have been protagonists in those few losses. They are victims of their own deficient skill sets, mediocre coaching and other factors. To try to define their legacy as losing 4 Big East tourney games disregards and diminishes their victories, not only over opponents but over their individual hardships and demons. We bitter fans react and write criticisms from our deepest emotions because of our vested interest in our team and for most, our alma mater. In the Big picture of LIFE losing 4 games in these mostly money making meaningless conference tournaments is not a legacy building experience worthy of op-ends by journalists as if to overshadow all the games they played and big games they won.
As we all know, by the time the conference tourneys start the majority of teams have been selected for what they justifiably did during the season. Only upsets in these tourneys change the seeding and selections. In lesser leagues teams like Iona get upset and the kids never even get a chance to have an NCAA memory. That should not define student-athletes legacies. It was very big of Mike Vaccaro to dump on 4 flawed seniors who had a supporting cast of 2 undergrads and nothing else after winning 21 games in one of the top 3 conferences in America.
 
Vaccaro is a phony? He praises STJ when they do something well, and writes a dead on piece like this when they stink the joint up.

There is nothing Vaccaro wrote that was not mentioned a hundred times in various threads here! As a journalist I expected some insight but there was none imo. In poo pooing the seniors performance in the Big East tourney he unfairly singles out these four as if they were the reason for losing one freaking game in each of the 4 years they played here or, since records don't lie, as he stated, for a total of 4 games in single round elimination games they played. We that have witnessed all 120+ games they have played know that they have been as much the victims of various circumstances as they have been protagonists in those few losses. They are victims of their own deficient skill sets, mediocre coaching and other factors. To try to define their legacy as losing 4 Big East tourney games disregards and diminishes their victories, not only over opponents but over their individual hardships and demons. We bitter fans react and write criticisms from our deepest emotions because of our vested interest in our team and for most, our alma mater. In the Big picture of LIFE losing 4 games in these mostly money making meaningless conference tournaments is not a legacy building experience worthy of op-ends by journalists as if to overshadow all the games they played and big games they won.
As we all know, by the time the conference tourneys start the majority of teams have been selected for what they justifiably did during the season. Only upsets in these tourneys change the seeding and selections. In lesser leagues teams like Iona get upset and the kids never even get a chance to have an NCAA memory. That should not define student-athletes legacies. It was very big of Mike Vaccaro to dump on 4 flawed seniors who had a supporting cast of 2 undergrads and nothing else after winning 21 games in one of the top 3 conferences in America.

I'm too drunk to read all this.
 
Vaccaro is a phony? He praises STJ when they do something well, and writes a dead on piece like this when they stink the joint up.

There is nothing Vaccaro wrote that was not mentioned a hundred times in various threads here! As a journalist I expected some insight but there was none imo. In poo pooing the seniors performance in the Big East tourney he unfairly singles out these four as if they were the reason for losing one freaking game in each of the 4 years they played here or, since records don't lie, as he stated, for a total of 4 games in single round elimination games they played. We that have witnessed all 120+ games they have played know that they have been as much the victims of various circumstances as they have been protagonists in those few losses. They are victims of their own deficient skill sets, mediocre coaching and other factors. To try to define their legacy as losing 4 Big East tourney games disregards and diminishes their victories, not only over opponents but over their individual hardships and demons. We bitter fans react and write criticisms from our deepest emotions because of our vested interest in our team and for most, our alma mater. In the Big picture of LIFE losing 4 games in these mostly money making meaningless conference tournaments is not a legacy building experience worthy of op-ends by journalists as if to overshadow all the games they played and big games they won.
As we all know, by the time the conference tourneys start the majority of teams have been selected for what they justifiably did during the season. Only upsets in these tourneys change the seeding and selections. In lesser leagues teams like Iona get upset and the kids never even get a chance to have an NCAA memory. That should not define student-athletes legacies. It was very big of Mike Vaccaro to dump on 4 flawed seniors who had a supporting cast of 2 undergrads and nothing else after winning 21 games in one of the top 3 conferences in America.

I'm too drunk to read all this.

Not as drunk as me when I wrote it.
 
Vaccaro is a phony? He praises STJ when they do something well, and writes a dead on piece like this when they stink the joint up.

There is nothing Vaccaro wrote that was not mentioned a hundred times in various threads here! As a journalist I expected some insight but there was none imo. In poo pooing the seniors performance in the Big East tourney he unfairly singles out these four as if they were the reason for losing one freaking game in each of the 4 years they played here or, since records don't lie, as he stated, for a total of 4 games in single round elimination games they played. We that have witnessed all 120+ games they have played know that they have been as much the victims of various circumstances as they have been protagonists in those few losses. They are victims of their own deficient skill sets, mediocre coaching and other factors. To try to define their legacy as losing 4 Big East tourney games disregards and diminishes their victories, not only over opponents but over their individual hardships and demons. We bitter fans react and write criticisms from our deepest emotions because of our vested interest in our team and for most, our alma mater. In the Big picture of LIFE losing 4 games in these mostly money making meaningless conference tournaments is not a legacy building experience worthy of op-ends by journalists as if to overshadow all the games they played and big games they won.
As we all know, by the time the conference tourneys start the majority of teams have been selected for what they justifiably did during the season. Only upsets in these tourneys change the seeding and selections. In lesser leagues teams like Iona get upset and the kids never even get a chance to have an NCAA memory. That should not define student-athletes legacies. It was very big of Mike Vaccaro to dump on 4 flawed seniors who had a supporting cast of 2 undergrads and nothing else after winning 21 games in one of the top 3 conferences in America.

I'm too drunk to read all this.

Not as drunk as me when I wrote it.
:cheer:
 
Is it unreasonable to think that this is a tired hurting team thats playing all year with a short roster?. The guys overachieved. A rough spot figured to come along and vs. Nova was mission impossible. Providence picked up from the run that came up short vs. Butler, and we continued the funk that was the Nova game. If the guys regain their legs a good showing in round 1 of the tourny can happen. This is however the same team all agreed at 3-6 was short players. Me, I figured we would finish up games with walkons and 7-11 would be achieved only if the guys didn't quit. Sure, I was sick the way Providence kicked us around, but I can't get down on the players. They came back from the dead, with a team that was lacking to get in. Now I hope CO can feel good enough to help carry the load.
Too many players, not enough players, they were too tired-they are 20 years old and hadn't played a game in 5 days what do you want to do put them in an old age home? Will the excuses never cease?

My favorite excuse is "If we hadn't lost Keith Thomas......"

Hopefully we can all agree that this excuse expires after this season.
 
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