US News & World Report College Rankings - SJU moved up

I think alumni are much more likely to give if their alma mater keeps climbing the rankings academically. It makes them look good and it gives them pride in their school. For example, I went to Marist as an undergrad and I can tell you that most grads are proud to say they went there. It's respected academically and they are even getting a medical school in an attempt to become Marist University. SJ as an undergrad school is not really respected much academically because it's not that competitive, however for graduate school it's more respected as it gets more competitive. I get our mission is different than many schools, but have we ever considered that our model is holding us back academically? Diversity can be good or not so good depending on what the prospective students want. Some are more comfortable in highly diverse populations and others aren't. I don't judge either POV...to each their own. Diversity can be great, but it should not kill our academics. Then we've gone too far IMO.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=296180]I think alumni are much more likely to give if their alma mater keeps climbing the rankings academically. It makes them look good and it gives them pride in their school. For example, I went to Marist as an undergrad and I can tell you that most grads are proud to say they went there. It's respected academically and they are even getting a medical school in an attempt to become Marist University. SJ as an undergrad school is not really respected much academically because it's not that competitive, however for graduate school it's more respected as it gets more competitive. I get our mission is different than many schools, but have we ever considered that our model is holding us back academically? Diversity can be good or not so good depending on what the prospective students want. Some are more comfortable in highly diverse populations and others aren't. I don't judge either POV...to each their own. Diversity can be great, but it should not kill our academics. Then we've gone too far IMO.[/quote]

What are you trying to say, Mike?
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=296199][quote="Mike Zaun" post=296180]I think alumni are much more likely to give if their alma mater keeps climbing the rankings academically. It makes them look good and it gives them pride in their school. For example, I went to Marist as an undergrad and I can tell you that most grads are proud to say they went there. It's respected academically and they are even getting a medical school in an attempt to become Marist University. SJ as an undergrad school is not really respected much academically because it's not that competitive, however for graduate school it's more respected as it gets more competitive. I get our mission is different than many schools, but have we ever considered that our model is holding us back academically? Diversity can be good or not so good depending on what the prospective students want. Some are more comfortable in highly diverse populations and others aren't. I don't judge either POV...to each their own. Diversity can be great, but it should not kill our academics. Then we've gone too far IMO.[/quote]

What are you trying to say, Mike?[/quote]

He went to lilly white Marist hidden away from the big bad inner city types that attend St. John's. In summary, if St. John's were located on the Hudson River it would be not as attractive to those inner city types and would be a better school academically because only kids from Luongg Aisland would apply.
 
All I'm saying is that no one has the right to shame students in either direction whether they want to be among a diverse student population or if they don't want to be. Everyone has their own preference and that's fine. Using "lily white" in the pejorative is implying students who don't attend diverse schools are somehow inherently racist which is absurd. Just think of that reversed for a second. These identity politics are what are tearing our country apart. Treat people as individuals, not demographic blocks. My point is that only focusing on diversity can have negative effects on academic standards and donations if you are targeting first-in-their-family college students who are not as wealthy.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=296331]All I'm saying is that no one has the right to shame students in either direction whether they want to be among a diverse student population or if they don't want to be. Everyone has their own preference and that's fine. Using "lily white" in the pejorative is implying students who don't attend diverse schools are somehow inherently racist which is absurd. Just think of that reversed for a second. These identity politics are what are tearing our country apart. Treat people as individuals, not demographic blocks. My point is that only focusing on diversity can have negative effects on academic standards and donations if you are targeting first-in-their-family college students who are not as wealthy.[/quote]

I just spent a day meeting with one of the deans, followed by a meeting early in the evening. Here are my takeaways:

1) The campus is amazingly beautiful as compared to even 15 or 20 years ago. The new entrance to Tobin is stunning, and buildings like D'angelo and Taffner make that promenade look like a small beautiful city. There are reflecting pools and waterfalls, and every corner of the campus seems to have been upgraded.

2) The investment in infrastructure in a short period of time is also apparent. There is a cybercrime lab and course curriculum, a homeland security curriculum and lab that has software to simulate a terrorist strike, a digital forensics lab, and an expanding discipline of targeted graduate school programs that will result in jobs. With programs like this it is clear why it was disappointing to the university when I.C.E. pulled out of the jobs fair because of treatment they've been receiving on college campuses. We have some very attractive majors and students.

3) Our "diversity" has allowed us to transform the upper 20% of our class into highly qualified, top performing, high scoring students.

4) Yes we have, and will always have economically disadvantaged and marginalized students in our population. Many won't perform at the upper levels of their class, but some will. The ones who graduate will have their lives transformed and trajectory raised by St. Johns.

5) Will our overall academic ranking suffer? Maybe. My son went to a similarly "diverse" catholic high school that had wealthy kids, poor kids, extremely bright kids and kids who struggled, white, brown, yellow, red, and just about every nationality, ethnicity and race. It didn't prevent my son from making a top 30 school, and he made amazing friends of all backgrounds from all walks of life and that helped shape his world view better quite frankly than mine is.

Mike, I know what you were getting at - academically unqualified "diverse" students who did not bring the same academic credentials as some of their classmates. SJU knows this, and hopefully are providing them with tools to achieve academic success.

I'm kind of good with where things stand now and much happier than I was just a few years ago.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=296331]All I'm saying is that no one has the right to shame students in either direction whether they want to be among a diverse student population or if they don't want to be. Everyone has their own preference and that's fine. Using "lily white" in the pejorative is implying students who don't attend diverse schools are somehow inherently racist which is absurd. Just think of that reversed for a second. These identity politics are what are tearing our country apart. Treat people as individuals, not demographic blocks. My point is that only focusing on diversity can have negative effects on academic standards and donations if you are targeting first-in-their-family college students who are not as wealthy.[/quote]

Mike, my comment was intended to be sarcastic. I should have said overwhelmingly caucasian. My niece graduated from Marist in 2016. I have been to Marist. I know they claim 4% African-American but at graduation you literally had to seek out blacks. White Hispanic and Caucasians combined make up around 87% of the student population. The kids tend to have high SAT's but the average GPA is about the same as St. John's. Being kind, parents don't send their kids to Marist for diversity. A great many of the black and Asian students attend on some form of scholarship or grant aid or the numbers would be even more abysmal.
 
Glad to hear Beast! I agree the campus has been upgraded significantly and looks great. 72, my apologies if that was not your intention. I just don't subscribe to the diversity before everything else doctrine that seems very popular in 2018. IMO academics come first and diversity is further down the list. Does the school have good academics? Are they competitive? How are their dorms/facilities? How are the professors? Do they retain students? How do the grads do after graduating? How is the networking? All of these at least for me are more important than how closely aligned the student population is with the current US census. Even at St. John's, one of the very most diverse universities in the country, some students have rallied against the school for being "intolerant" with a list of demands. It just seems you're damned if you make diversity your mission and you're damned if you don't in 2018. Some practically make a religion out of the whole inequality/privilege/victims/oppressors BS. Can you really fault some for opting out of it?
 
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