The Physical Cliff

[kranmars]

In an effort to stop the impending doom, both sides of redmen.com aisle must come together, put aside their Lavin differences and work to resolve the problem.

Is it the lack of physical conditioning keeping us from succeeding?

Is this an issue with fundamentals, because the team is phsically still unrefined?

Is doom approaching because the team has is without any physically tangible big men?

Is a crash landing on the horizon because Lavin has provided very little physical evidence he can coach?

Or will the physics of SJU's gravitational basketball pull eventually lead us to formulate "We will always suck, no matter who coaches here, pure and simple."

Please keep in mind, I have no answer. Up until now, all of my musings were more metaphysical. I would conjecture with the theoretical. But no more.

While the pro Lavin crowd may hold a small majority, nothing can get done without true bipartisan effort. Let's not ram something through for the sake of doing something. There is always the safety net of kicking this problem down the road a couple of months, and then revisiting the issue. But whatever choices we make, keep in mind that a compromise both sides can be proud of is the stated goal. While difficult work lies ahead, I am confident in the assembly of redmen.commers.

 

[Section9]

It's simple: as long as Lavin continues to recruit thin, quick front court athletes and plays a zone that chases people and we don't rotate fast enough, we're getting killed on the boards. And having multiple players tryng to block a shot at the same time isn't going to help either.

 

[LINY89]

It's simple: as long as Lavin continues to recruit thin, quick front court athletes and plays a zone that chases people and we don't rotate fast enough, we're getting killed on the boards. And having multiple players tryng to block a shot at the same time isn't going to help either.

We really need some guys built like Jae Crowder or Dejaun Blair. Big meaty guys who are built like cadillac escalades. I love Sampson to death, but I think a strong gust of wind is enough to blow him over. Even if it's not a 4 star guy, we should go after a few 3 star BIG men just for their size alone and hopefully their skill comes with coaching. Another thing that bothers me is that we are not a particularly great shooting team nor inside the paint scoring team. We are in the middle...we should commit to one. Either sign a ton of pure shooters like Stephen Curry, JJ Reddick, and that doofy Nova kid, or sign a ton of big bodied bangers for down low and dominate the paint. Don't say you can't win with pure shooters because that's all Duke seems to ever have.

 

[paultzman]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

 

[LINY89]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

You can be doofy and nasty from behind the arc...just ask Steve Novak. I think our problem is we have bad talent evaluators. Lindsey, Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. all swings and misses there. It even looks like Gathers would have been a swing and miss if he had come here. We cannot win in the Big East with 1 very good player each year unless he becomes LeBron James. Give us 1 penetrating, quick PG i.e. Pierre Jackson, and 1 extra pure shooting threat i.e. Heslip and this team is probably undefeated. Lavin needs to start looking at skill players rather than freak athletes in general.

 

[redstorm80]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

You can be doofy and nasty from behind the arc...just ask Steve Novak. I think our problem is we have bad talent evaluators. Lindsey, Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. all swings and misses there. It even looks like Gathers would have been a swing and miss if he had come here. We cannot win in the Big East with 1 very good player each year unless he becomes LeBron James. Give us 1 penetrating, quick PG i.e. Pierre Jackson, and 1 extra pure shooting threat i.e. Heslip and this team is probably undefeated. Lavin needs to start looking at skill players rather than freak athletes in general.

Greene, Garrett & Pointer have been here for a year and a half & Jones for 1/2 a year and they are swing and misses?

 

[SJUalum98]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

You can be doofy and nasty from behind the arc...just ask Steve Novak. I think our problem is we have bad talent evaluators. Lindsey, Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. all swings and misses there. It even looks like Gathers would have been a swing and miss if he had come here. We cannot win in the Big East with 1 very good player each year unless he becomes LeBron James. Give us 1 penetrating, quick PG i.e. Pierre Jackson, and 1 extra pure shooting threat i.e. Heslip and this team is probably undefeated. Lavin needs to start looking at skill players rather than freak athletes in general.

Greene, Garrett & Pointer have been here for a year and a half & Jones for 1/2 a year and they are swing and misses?

Dom was definitely not worthy of his ranking after watching him for 1.5 years now.

He's as one dimensional as a player can be. Not knocking him. Just calling it like it is.

I think he can be a terror on the defensive end in the right system. I think he hasn't been coached up though and therefore lacks discipline which is why he looks like he's out there and "just playing".

 

[Class of 72]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

Two area Big East schools pursued him....we did not.
If Obekpa had not signed late, our 2012 class would NOT have one top 100 Rivals player. Wood at 103 failed to qualify....a second time. Sampson, for all intents and purposes, is a sophomore with Garrett, Harrison, Pointer, Greene and Branch. Our only senior was benched because we have no Big prospects.
For all the so-called talent we have, only one player appears to be a scoring threat and he is the only reliable player at the line. There are over 300 other D1 colleges that shoot free throws better than our guys.
It is fundamental and it is not in our playbook.
It comes from rigorous practices, repetition and discipline. We seem to be missing something in that group and we need to get answers as too why we are not involved with higher IQ players.
Gonzaga went to Poland and signed a decent 7 footer. We went to California and signed a dunce.
We spent many a plane trip to Louisiana, signed and lost a player, recruited another and came home empty.
This may be the second throw-away season in a row for SJ. If Harrison leaves and we lose our only two prime recruits, year four will likely be Lavin's last since the lower profile conference of the 7 weak sisters will not warrant a $2 million coach, especially if we are relegated to the bottom of the 7 sisters conference.
The one thing that may save Lavin's career is Harrison and Sampson return, we sign our two prospects and win the Big East next year....its final year with some original members.
I hope and pray, for the future of the program, things turn around because the most hard core fans will find it hard to spend $100 for a couple of tickets to watch us play St. Francis every year at the Barclay.

 

[LINY89]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

You can be doofy and nasty from behind the arc...just ask Steve Novak. I think our problem is we have bad talent evaluators. Lindsey, Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. all swings and misses there. It even looks like Gathers would have been a swing and miss if he had come here. We cannot win in the Big East with 1 very good player each year unless he becomes LeBron James. Give us 1 penetrating, quick PG i.e. Pierre Jackson, and 1 extra pure shooting threat i.e. Heslip and this team is probably undefeated. Lavin needs to start looking at skill players rather than freak athletes in general.

Greene, Garrett & Pointer have been here for a year and a half & Jones for 1/2 a year and they are swing and misses?

Dom was definitely not worthy of his ranking after watching him for 1.5 years now.

He's as one dimensional as a player can be. Not knocking him. Just calling it like it is.

I think he can be a terror on the defensive end in the right system. I think he hasn't been coached up though and therefore lacks discipline which is why he looks like he's out there and "just playing".

When you take into consideration that playing 4 years is rare for top 100 players these days, how is 1.5 years not a decent enough sample size? So many people on here imply that Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. will have some "eureka" moment where they remember they are 4 star recruits (minus Jones) and start playing like it. Right now as of 1/4/13, we have struck out on: Greene, Jones, Garrett, Pointer, Lindsey. We have hit on Obekpa, Harrison, and Sampson. 5 fails to 3 successes as of now. We need to recruit the right guys for this team and as I said before, perhaps it falls on our talent evaluators. We only have ONE player who truly, no doubt can nearly guarantee at worst a solid and at best a spectacular game. That player is Harrison. Sampson has yet to prove he can dominate at the Big East level like he did mid majors, Pointer is up and down, Garrett is up and down, Greene is red hot then ice cold, Jones fell off the face of the earth, etc.

And please don't say we are missing Dunlap again...he was nothing special when we had him. Same with Gift. I think Lavin can coach well if he just gets the right players, and right now it appears he doesn't have the right mix. The way things are going I really wonder if this team is ever going to be great again. It just sucks that SJ was so amazing before I was born, and now when I actually get to see them and root for them, I'd be ecstatic just to see #25 next to our name, a 20 win season, or a tourney berth. To those of you who got to see this team in its golden years in the mid 80's, congrats, you hit the lotto. For us younger guys, SJ is a bottom feeder Big East team and as much as it hurts to admit that, it's not an exaggeration by any means.

 

[dee]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

You can be doofy and nasty from behind the arc...just ask Steve Novak. I think our problem is we have bad talent evaluators. Lindsey, Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. all swings and misses there. It even looks like Gathers would have been a swing and miss if he had come here. We cannot win in the Big East with 1 very good player each year unless he becomes LeBron James. Give us 1 penetrating, quick PG i.e. Pierre Jackson, and 1 extra pure shooting threat i.e. Heslip and this team is probably undefeated. Lavin needs to start looking at skill players rather than freak athletes in general.

Greene, Garrett & Pointer have been here for a year and a half & Jones for 1/2 a year and they are swing and misses?

Dom was definitely not worthy of his ranking after watching him for 1.5 years now.

He's as one dimensional as a player can be. Not knocking him. Just calling it like it is.

I think he can be a terror on the defensive end in the right system. I think he hasn't been coached up though and therefore lacks discipline which is why he looks like he's out there and "just playing".

When you take into consideration that playing 4 years is rare for top 100 players these days, how is 1.5 years not a decent enough sample size? So many people on here imply that Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. will have some "eureka" moment where they remember they are 4 star recruits (minus Jones) and start playing like it. Right now as of 1/4/13, we have struck out on: Greene, Jones, Garrett, Pointer, Lindsey. We have hit on Obekpa, Harrison, and Sampson. 5 fails to 3 successes as of now. We need to recruit the right guys for this team and as I said before, perhaps it falls on our talent evaluators. We only have ONE player who truly, no doubt can nearly guarantee at worst a solid and at best a spectacular game. That player is Harrison. Sampson has yet to prove he can dominate at the Big East level like he did mid majors, Pointer is up and down, Garrett is up and down, Greene is red hot then ice cold, Jones fell off the face of the earth, etc.

And please don't say we are missing Dunlap again...he was nothing special when we had him. Same with Gift. I think Lavin can coach well if he just gets the right players, and right now it appears he doesn't have the right mix. The way things are going I really wonder if this team is ever going to be great again. It just sucks that SJ was so amazing before I was born, and now when I actually get to see them and root for them, I'd be ecstatic just to see #25 next to our name, a 20 win season, or a tourney berth. To those of you who got to see this team in its golden years in the mid 80's, congrats, you hit the lotto. For us younger guys, SJ is a bottom feeder Big East team and as much as it hurts to admit that, it's not an exaggeration by any means.

There always seems to be something missing. Moreover, losing becomes contagious and has become contagious to st johns. I think the players expect to lose or at least doubt their chances. I know many of the fans expect the team to lose. I think the responsiblity lies at the top and I dont mean Lavin. I mean the School President and Monasch. They have just not been aggressive enough in getting st johns back on track over the last decade- yes decade my friends. Now it is just too many years that the school has failed. High school students only know the st johns of failure. Harrignton thought he could just press a button and everything would come up roses again. They wanted to punish the basketball team because of the Pittsburgh episode and have cut their noses to spite their faces. In the interim they opened the door to other BE schools to recruit players from nyc who very well may have come to a st johns team that was perceived as a winner. This has allowed Pitt UConn and the Orange to thrive as their fans sneer at the team we put on the floor. The team needs to play with a reckless abondonment, they need to (shall I say) play dirty and very physical and take the theme of "no more mr nice guy". We sure cant win playing nicey nice. Not with this team. They need to play all out for 40 minutes with a continuous rotation of players who push shove etc ( we might as well because the refs sure dont give us any breaks anyway and they seem to call mystery fouls on the team even at home. So we might as well give some real fouls) and maybe maybe we might win a few games and bring some excitement back but truthfully I doubt it and I have lost my enthusiasm for the school, the team and the players.

Edit- in reference to playing rough and fouling I want to quote what I believe Mullin once said of the Georgetown team of the 80's that they fouled five guys because the refs could only call one-- It might be an exaggeration but it makes the point. Play rough.

 

[redstorm80]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

You can be doofy and nasty from behind the arc...just ask Steve Novak. I think our problem is we have bad talent evaluators. Lindsey, Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. all swings and misses there. It even looks like Gathers would have been a swing and miss if he had come here. We cannot win in the Big East with 1 very good player each year unless he becomes LeBron James. Give us 1 penetrating, quick PG i.e. Pierre Jackson, and 1 extra pure shooting threat i.e. Heslip and this team is probably undefeated. Lavin needs to start looking at skill players rather than freak athletes in general.

Greene, Garrett & Pointer have been here for a year and a half & Jones for 1/2 a year and they are swing and misses?

Dom was definitely not worthy of his ranking after watching him for 1.5 years now.

He's as one dimensional as a player can be. Not knocking him. Just calling it like it is.

I think he can be a terror on the defensive end in the right system. I think he hasn't been coached up though and therefore lacks discipline which is why he looks like he's out there and "just playing".

Over hyped yes but still not a swing and miss

 

[redstorm80]

"Doofy Nova Kid" Huh? Guess these folks thought more of him in HS.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Ryan-Arcidiacono-114667

You can be doofy and nasty from behind the arc...just ask Steve Novak. I think our problem is we have bad talent evaluators. Lindsey, Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. all swings and misses there. It even looks like Gathers would have been a swing and miss if he had come here. We cannot win in the Big East with 1 very good player each year unless he becomes LeBron James. Give us 1 penetrating, quick PG i.e. Pierre Jackson, and 1 extra pure shooting threat i.e. Heslip and this team is probably undefeated. Lavin needs to start looking at skill players rather than freak athletes in general.

Greene, Garrett & Pointer have been here for a year and a half & Jones for 1/2 a year and they are swing and misses?

Dom was definitely not worthy of his ranking after watching him for 1.5 years now.

He's as one dimensional as a player can be. Not knocking him. Just calling it like it is.

I think he can be a terror on the defensive end in the right system. I think he hasn't been coached up though and therefore lacks discipline which is why he looks like he's out there and "just playing".

When you take into consideration that playing 4 years is rare for top 100 players these days, how is 1.5 years not a decent enough sample size? So many people on here imply that Garrett, Pointer, Greene, Jones, etc. will have some "eureka" moment where they remember they are 4 star recruits (minus Jones) and start playing like it. Right now as of 1/4/13, we have struck out on: Greene, Jones, Garrett, Pointer, Lindsey. We have hit on Obekpa, Harrison, and Sampson. 5 fails to 3 successes as of now. We need to recruit the right guys for this team and as I said before, perhaps it falls on our talent evaluators. We only have ONE player who truly, no doubt can nearly guarantee at worst a solid and at best a spectacular game. That player is Harrison. Sampson has yet to prove he can dominate at the Big East level like he did mid majors, Pointer is up and down, Garrett is up and down, Greene is red hot then ice cold, Jones fell off the face of the earth, etc.

These guys are up and down because they are freshman and sophomore's who are playing more minutes then they should by default. I could go on forever about players who were unimpressive as underclassmen & became stars. Have patients and some faith, most players dont step foot on campus and have complete games from day 1, it takes time

As far as who we are recruiting, its not as easy as you suggest. We had 10 players to recruit with a new coach who hadn't been on the sidelines for 7 years trying to revive a dead & irrelevant program. We really didn't have the option to pick and chose from top talent. In fact we are extremely fortunate and lucky to have gotten the guys we got. Strong programs aren't built in one day, it takes time

 

[mjmaherjr]

In an effort to stop the impending doom, both sides of redmen.com aisle must come together, put aside their Lavin differences and work to resolve the problem.

Is it the lack of physical conditioning keeping us from succeeding?

Is this an issue with fundamentals, because the team is phsically still unrefined?

Is doom approaching because the team has is without any physically tangible big men?

Is a crash landing on the horizon because Lavin has provided very little physical evidence he can coach?

Or will the physics of SJU's gravitational basketball pull eventually lead us to formulate "We will always suck, no matter who coaches here, pure and simple."

Please keep in mind, I have no answer. Up until now, all of my musings were more metaphysical. I would conjecture with the theoretical. But no more.

While the pro Lavin crowd may hold a small majority, nothing can get done without true bipartisan effort. Let's not ram something through for the sake of doing something. There is always the safety net of kicking this problem down the road a couple of months, and then revisiting the issue. But whatever choices we make, keep in mind that a compromise both sides can be proud of is the stated goal. While difficult work lies ahead, I am confident in the assembly of redmen.commers.

Can anyone explain how my great friend Kranmars and I have season tickets together and havent even been at the same game yet ? Well at least we will have rutgers.

 

[Moose]

In an effort to stop the impending doom, both sides of redmen.com aisle must come together, put aside their Lavin differences and work to resolve the problem.

Is it the lack of physical conditioning keeping us from succeeding?

Is this an issue with fundamentals, because the team is phsically still unrefined?

Is doom approaching because the team has is without any physically tangible big men?

Is a crash landing on the horizon because Lavin has provided very little physical evidence he can coach?

Or will the physics of SJU's gravitational basketball pull eventually lead us to formulate "We will always suck, no matter who coaches here, pure and simple."

Please keep in mind, I have no answer. Up until now, all of my musings were more metaphysical. I would conjecture with the theoretical. But no more.

While the pro Lavin crowd may hold a small majority, nothing can get done without true bipartisan effort. Let's not ram something through for the sake of doing something. There is always the safety net of kicking this problem down the road a couple of months, and then revisiting the issue. But whatever choices we make, keep in mind that a compromise both sides can be proud of is the stated goal. While difficult work lies ahead, I am confident in the assembly of redmen.commers.

Can anyone explain how my great friend Kranmars and I have season tickets together and havent even been at the same game yet ? Well at least we will have rutgers.

Because you don't go to games. Now I see why though. Smart move on your part.

 

[mjmaherjr]

In an effort to stop the impending doom, both sides of redmen.com aisle must come together, put aside their Lavin differences and work to resolve the problem.

Is it the lack of physical conditioning keeping us from succeeding?

Is this an issue with fundamentals, because the team is phsically still unrefined?

Is doom approaching because the team has is without any physically tangible big men?

Is a crash landing on the horizon because Lavin has provided very little physical evidence he can coach?

Or will the physics of SJU's gravitational basketball pull eventually lead us to formulate "We will always suck, no matter who coaches here, pure and simple."

Please keep in mind, I have no answer. Up until now, all of my musings were more metaphysical. I would conjecture with the theoretical. But no more.

While the pro Lavin crowd may hold a small majority, nothing can get done without true bipartisan effort. Let's not ram something through for the sake of doing something. There is always the safety net of kicking this problem down the road a couple of months, and then revisiting the issue. But whatever choices we make, keep in mind that a compromise both sides can be proud of is the stated goal. While difficult work lies ahead, I am confident in the assembly of redmen.commers.

Can anyone explain how my great friend Kranmars and I have season tickets together and havent even been at the same game yet ? Well at least we will have rutgers.

Because you don't go to games. Now I see why though. Smart move on your part.

lol. i only missed 3 but San Fran made up for that. Garden games start so I'll be at all of them just for the social aspect at least

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Anyone who would say at this point in their career that Greene and Garrett are swing and misses, doesn't know the game of basketball.

 

[LINY89]

Anyone who would say at this point in their career that Greene and Garrett are swing and misses, doesn't know the game of basketball.

No one is predicting the future. In the time they played already which is substantial, they have not produced.

 

[beast of the east]

It's simple: as long as Lavin continues to recruit thin, quick front court athletes and plays a zone that chases people and we don't rotate fast enough, we're getting killed on the boards. And having multiple players tryng to block a shot at the same time isn't going to help either.

We really need some guys built like Jae Crowder or Dejaun Blair. Big meaty guys who are built like cadillac escalades. I love Sampson to death, but I think a strong gust of wind is enough to blow him over. Even if it's not a 4 star guy, we should go after a few 3 star BIG men just for their size alone and hopefully their skill comes with coaching. Another thing that bothers me is that we are not a particularly great shooting team nor inside the paint scoring team. We are in the middle...we should commit to one. Either sign a ton of pure shooters like Stephen Curry, JJ Reddick, and that doofy Nova kid, or sign a ton of big bodied bangers for down low and dominate the paint. Don't say you can't win with pure shooters because that's all Duke seems to ever have.

I think Lavin has had so many scholarships to fill in two seasons, given that he walked into a situation that was Isaiah Thomas like in its management (all seniors, complete turnover of a team), that he recruited the best talent he could find, rather indiscriminately. Going forward he will recruit positions and player types I believe, and be able to hone in on higher level tlent that he has been tracking for a few seasons now.

 

[beast of the east]

In an effort to stop the impending doom, both sides of redmen.com aisle must come together, put aside their Lavin differences and work to resolve the problem.

Is it the lack of physical conditioning keeping us from succeeding?

Is this an issue with fundamentals, because the team is phsically still unrefined?

Is doom approaching because the team has is without any physically tangible big men?

Is a crash landing on the horizon because Lavin has provided very little physical evidence he can coach?

Or will the physics of SJU's gravitational basketball pull eventually lead us to formulate "We will always suck, no matter who coaches here, pure and simple."

Please keep in mind, I have no answer. Up until now, all of my musings were more metaphysical. I would conjecture with the theoretical. But no more.

While the pro Lavin crowd may hold a small majority, nothing can get done without true bipartisan effort. Let's not ram something through for the sake of doing something. There is always the safety net of kicking this problem down the road a couple of months, and then revisiting the issue. But whatever choices we make, keep in mind that a compromise both sides can be proud of is the stated goal. While difficult work lies ahead, I am confident in the assembly of redmen.commers.

Can anyone explain how my great friend Kranmars and I have season tickets together and havent even been at the same game yet ? Well at least we will have rutgers.

I thoguht it was just me. I've had so much going on, I've missed most games so far. Right now SJU tix can't even be given away - so most of the time so far, my seats were empty

 

[tom in salem]

1