And both the National Debt, at 100% of GDP, and the Deficit, at 3.5% of GDP, are both at record levels. Piling on another $1.5TRN at this stage of the economic expansion and with aging demographics is crazy. I must characterize it as irresponsible.
Tax Reform / Non-Profit Executive Pay
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
- Start date
beast of the east
Active member
What's crazy is that liberals are suddenly concerned about the national debt after Obama ran up more debt than anyone in history by expanding entitlement programs like food stamps and subsidized Obama care with no relief in sight. Already under trump we've had the best GDP in many years, and the poor recovery under Obama has finally kicked into gear under Trump. This Christmas shopping season looks like it will be great for retailers. If the tax cuts grows business revenue the resulting tax revenue and continued growth of our economy will more than pay for the tax cuts. Throw in curbing immigration of those who immediately go on entitlement programs, and reduction in government spending, holding China's feet to the fire, and many other initiatives and we are on our way to being an economic giant once again.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Blue staters vote for the party of Tax and Spend, so what’s the problem?
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Neither has socialism. You might be looking at President Sanders if the DNC didn’t decide what was best for you.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
I have filed this under “Herbert Stein’s Law”.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
The rate increase is loooong overdue. When it reaches “normalization”, the results will be bad if we’re lucky.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
The “Blame Bush Buffer” will be in effect. But you and I both know it’s the Wilpon’s fault!
Beast....I would like to make two factual points. Anyone can absorb these facts and choose to extract their own opinion, but they cannot be denied as facts.
Yes, President Obama increased the national debt more than any other president when measure by dollars. But, from a valid statistics perspective, a fair comparative analysis would have to use the percentage of increase as opposed to dollars. By this measure, unsurprisingly, FDR (yes, a democrat) grew the deficit the most (by far). The second most significant increase (and it isn't even close) is Reagan. When using percentage of growth, Obama had the fifth largest increase. I attached a chart that illustrates percentage of increase, as opposed to dollar increase.
Regarding the GDP growth under Trump, I have two points. Trump recently celebrated a quarterly GDP growth number of 3%. He went on to remind folks that, under Obama, the annual GDP number never reached 3%. While that is true, it is grossly misleading. Under President Obama, there were 8 quarterly GDP recordings of 3% or higher. In other words, when Trump can report 3% GDP growth as an ANNUAL figure, then he's got something.
Further, while most agree the economy is at this very moment, looking strong......what policy, order, or de-regulation do you think Trump has enacted that has impacted the world's largest economy in just 10 months time?
Yes, President Obama increased the national debt more than any other president when measure by dollars. But, from a valid statistics perspective, a fair comparative analysis would have to use the percentage of increase as opposed to dollars. By this measure, unsurprisingly, FDR (yes, a democrat) grew the deficit the most (by far). The second most significant increase (and it isn't even close) is Reagan. When using percentage of growth, Obama had the fifth largest increase. I attached a chart that illustrates percentage of increase, as opposed to dollar increase.
Regarding the GDP growth under Trump, I have two points. Trump recently celebrated a quarterly GDP growth number of 3%. He went on to remind folks that, under Obama, the annual GDP number never reached 3%. While that is true, it is grossly misleading. Under President Obama, there were 8 quarterly GDP recordings of 3% or higher. In other words, when Trump can report 3% GDP growth as an ANNUAL figure, then he's got something.
Further, while most agree the economy is at this very moment, looking strong......what policy, order, or de-regulation do you think Trump has enacted that has impacted the world's largest economy in just 10 months time?
Here’s the thing: There is no reputable nonpartisan think tank, tax policy experts, or economists that project that the tax cuts will grow the economy anywhere close to paying for it. No tax cut legislation since 1980 has—personal or corporate—and this one is the most regressive one ever passed, and coming into the 9th year of an economic expansion (9th inning maybe??), with record National Debt and record national deficits, corps already flush with cash and profits, very tight labor markets, and aging demographics (baby boomers turning 70 every year from here on for the next decade or so).
The Wharton Penn Budget just estimated this tax law will generate 0.1% annual ‘growth’, at most, for the next 10 years.
Not much more to say. We shall see.
The Wharton Penn Budget just estimated this tax law will generate 0.1% annual ‘growth’, at most, for the next 10 years.
Not much more to say. We shall see.
IMO the best Non Partisan group out there is www.concordcoalition.org
WASHINGTON --The tax legislation produced by congressional negotiators and scheduled to be voted on this week remains as fiscally irresponsible as the original House and Senate bills, according to The Concord Coalition. This latest bill is based on flawed economics, poor tax policy and a troubling legislative process that has allowed little time for careful analysis.
“This bill is a particularly distasteful example of legislative sausage-making,” said Concord Coalition Executive Director Robert L. Bixby. “Its disingenuous combination of gimmicks and debt will not deliver the promised economic benefits, and the rushed, secretive process that produced this plan, with its many special-interest provisions, is bound to produce unwelcome surprises.”
The federal debt is already quite high by historical standards and projected under current law to increase by $10 trillion over the next decade. Instead of helping to address this problem, the tax bill would make it worse by adding more than $1 trillion in new borrowing. Moreover, gimmicks in the bill, such as “sunsets” never intended to take effect, are hiding its true cost.
The decision to enact a large deficit-financed tax cut at this time is very troublesome from a fiscal standpoint because the revenue loss would come just as the health care and retirement costs of retiring baby boomers are putting increasing pressure on the federal budget. Many lawmakers supporting the tax cuts are also looking for ways to increase spending on defense, border security and disaster relief.
“This is not the time for a big tax cut,” Bixby said. “The economy does not currently need fiscal stimulus; unemployment is low, corporate profits are high and the Federal Reserve is raising interest rates. At best the legislation could have some small short-term impact on the economy but even that is open to question. In the longer term, it does little to improve growth.”
Bixby added: “Tax cuts don’t pay for themselves -- even with generous assumptions about their possible impact on economic growth. Eventually there will need to be tax increases or spending cuts to pay for this legislation. The bill leaves unanswered how that would be done, who would pay and how that would affect the economy.”
There are a number of other problems with the legislation from a tax-policy perspective. Some provisions would disappear in later years, for example. This makes no sense, particularly if the provisions are as beneficial as their supporters claim.
The Concord Coalition has long called for tax reform that would substantially broaden the tax base by reducing or eliminating many “tax expenditures” -- provisions that reduce taxes for certain individuals and businesses. The broader tax base would enable Congress to lower rates and -- ideally -- reduce deficits as well, while making the code more economically efficient.
But the current legislation does not provide enough base-broadening relative to the planned rate cuts. In fact, the legislation creates new complexity in the tax code.
Congressional leaders and supporters of the proposed law should also be ashamed of the hurried and haphazard legislative process that produced it. There were no hearings or time for debate on the final product, or even thoughtful consideration.
There was no serious attempt at bipartisanship, which is preferable with such far-reaching legislation. Consequently, the views of many Americans were never really considered by those who wrote the legislation.
WASHINGTON --The tax legislation produced by congressional negotiators and scheduled to be voted on this week remains as fiscally irresponsible as the original House and Senate bills, according to The Concord Coalition. This latest bill is based on flawed economics, poor tax policy and a troubling legislative process that has allowed little time for careful analysis.
“This bill is a particularly distasteful example of legislative sausage-making,” said Concord Coalition Executive Director Robert L. Bixby. “Its disingenuous combination of gimmicks and debt will not deliver the promised economic benefits, and the rushed, secretive process that produced this plan, with its many special-interest provisions, is bound to produce unwelcome surprises.”
The federal debt is already quite high by historical standards and projected under current law to increase by $10 trillion over the next decade. Instead of helping to address this problem, the tax bill would make it worse by adding more than $1 trillion in new borrowing. Moreover, gimmicks in the bill, such as “sunsets” never intended to take effect, are hiding its true cost.
The decision to enact a large deficit-financed tax cut at this time is very troublesome from a fiscal standpoint because the revenue loss would come just as the health care and retirement costs of retiring baby boomers are putting increasing pressure on the federal budget. Many lawmakers supporting the tax cuts are also looking for ways to increase spending on defense, border security and disaster relief.
“This is not the time for a big tax cut,” Bixby said. “The economy does not currently need fiscal stimulus; unemployment is low, corporate profits are high and the Federal Reserve is raising interest rates. At best the legislation could have some small short-term impact on the economy but even that is open to question. In the longer term, it does little to improve growth.”
Bixby added: “Tax cuts don’t pay for themselves -- even with generous assumptions about their possible impact on economic growth. Eventually there will need to be tax increases or spending cuts to pay for this legislation. The bill leaves unanswered how that would be done, who would pay and how that would affect the economy.”
There are a number of other problems with the legislation from a tax-policy perspective. Some provisions would disappear in later years, for example. This makes no sense, particularly if the provisions are as beneficial as their supporters claim.
The Concord Coalition has long called for tax reform that would substantially broaden the tax base by reducing or eliminating many “tax expenditures” -- provisions that reduce taxes for certain individuals and businesses. The broader tax base would enable Congress to lower rates and -- ideally -- reduce deficits as well, while making the code more economically efficient.
But the current legislation does not provide enough base-broadening relative to the planned rate cuts. In fact, the legislation creates new complexity in the tax code.
Congressional leaders and supporters of the proposed law should also be ashamed of the hurried and haphazard legislative process that produced it. There were no hearings or time for debate on the final product, or even thoughtful consideration.
There was no serious attempt at bipartisanship, which is preferable with such far-reaching legislation. Consequently, the views of many Americans were never really considered by those who wrote the legislation.
Dan V
Well-known member
Bernie is 10 times the man that Donald Trump will ever be. He will be receiving my vote in 2020 and is the most popular politician in the world right now. The only people who should be thanking the DNC are Trump and his lackeys and supporters, because Sanders would of wiped the floor with him.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
I think it was Trump who said when accepting the Republican nomination:
This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.