System question

F

fuchsia

Well-known member
The math says that 40% shooting percentage from behind the arc yields more points than 50% shooting percentage from inside the arc.
.4 (3) = 1.2 > .5 (2) =1.0

The question is whether aggregating a 3 point shooting team throws off the basic spacing for both offense and defense and lowers the five out team's shooting percentage with net improvement in the opponent's percentages. Another way of saying it is what did Don Nelson ever win without Paul Silas and Dave Cowens beating the crap out of opponents and making space for Nellie and Jojo White and Havlicek to do the scoring. After the DePaul game I went and looked up the rosters of Golden State's Run TMC teams and could not find the rebounding and spacing specialists that might have translated in to more victories. Are we pursuing an approach that does not work without at least three shooting superstars and some guys willing to do the dirty work down low?
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=327424]The math says that 40% shooting percentage from behind the arc yields more points than 50% shooting percentage from inside the arc.
.4 (3) = 1.2 > .5 (2) =1.0

The question is whether aggregating a 3 point shooting team throws off the basic spacing for both offense and defense and lowers the five out team's shooting percentage with net improvement in the opponent's percentages. Another way of saying it is what did Don Nelson ever win without Paul Silas and Dave Cowens beating the crap out of opponents and making space for Nellie and Jojo White and Havlicek to do the scoring. After the DePaul game I went and looked up the rosters of Golden State's Run TMC teams and could not find the rebounding and spacing specialists that might have translated in to more victories. Are we pursuing an approach that does not work without at least three shooting superstars and some guys willing to do the dirty work down low?[/quote]

For this team, 3 pt. shooting and turnovers caused has to out weigh being out rebounded , and FT disparity. Can be done, but seems it's dependent a lot on the makeup of the team we're playing. Would be nice to have a big who could run and shoot.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=327424]The math says that 40% shooting percentage from behind the arc yields more points than 50% shooting percentage from inside the arc.
.4 (3) = 1.2 > .5 (2) =1.0

The question is whether aggregating a 3 point shooting team throws off the basic spacing for both offense and defense and lowers the five out team's shooting percentage with net improvement in the opponent's percentages. Another way of saying it is what did Don Nelson ever win without Paul Silas and Dave Cowens beating the crap out of opponents and making space for Nellie and Jojo White and Havlicek to do the scoring. After the DePaul game I went and looked up the rosters of Golden State's Run TMC teams and could not find the rebounding and spacing specialists that might have translated in to more victories. Are we pursuing an approach that does not work without at least three shooting superstars and some guys willing to do the dirty work down low?[/quote]

One of the reasons why 3-pt shooting can be advantageous is the long, unpredictable resbiunds hiss shots tend to produce. We fail to take advantage of this with the shoot and retreat mindset.

You need to gather offensive rebounds to win in college and that isn’t as true in the NBA. It doesn’t have have to be a system if you have kids that have a nose for the ball.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=327424]After the DePaul game I went and looked up the rosters of Golden State's Run TMC teams and could not find the rebounding and spacing specialists that might have translated in to more victories. Are we pursuing an approach that does not work without at least three shooting superstars and some guys willing to do the dirty work down low?[/quote]

You mean Chris Gatling and Victor Alexander aren't doing it for you?

Actually, if we had either of those guys on this team we'd have 30 wins.
 
We have very sub par talent except for a couple of players. No system Mullin cooks up can camouflage that. Our so-called best defender held his man to 43 points and fouled out. All while dribbling uncontrollably and missing open men.
Our CENTERS collected 2 points. We had a season record number of players with 4 fouls and fouling out.
It's the end of the season when experience counts but Mullin just now needs players like Robert's and Williams to cover for the deficiencies of Keita and Simon when it was obvious earlier even to blind Willy.
What we all thought was great Transfer U recruiting by Matt may not be that impressive after all is said and done and it's not his fault. While Matt was with Femi, Mullin and Mitch had other things to do. Some of it related to Golden State. We complained to deaf ears here and were admonished. We got lucky with Heron. We got unlucky with Keita. The basketball Gods have not been kind. Players beat opposing players. We don't have enough of them.
 
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Would be nice to have a real system like a Jay Wright. I want a coach to also be able to identify talent and which pieces will work. If I've learned anything from the Lavin and Mullin eras, it's that we need to recruit demeanor and basketball IQ also. Look at Ponds and his demeanor and then look at any Nova player. Nova players act like professionals and they are totally dedicated. Some of our players look like they go through the motions.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=327508]We have very sub par talent except for a couple of players. No system Mullin cooks up can camouflage that. Our so-called best defender held his man to 43 points and fouled out. All while dribbling uncontrollably and missing open men.
Our CENTERS collected 2 points. We had a season record number of players with 4 fouls and fouling out.
It's the end of the season when experience counts but Mullin just now needs players like Robert's and Williams to cover for the deficiencies of Keita and Simon when it was obvious earlier even to blind Willy.
What we all thought was great Transfer U recruiting by Matt may not be that impressive after all is said and done and it's not his fault. While Matt was with Femi, Mullin and Mitch had other things to do. Some of it related to Golden State. We complained to deaf ears here and were admonished. We got lucky with Heron. We got unlucky with Keita. The basketball Gods have not been kind. Players beat opposing players. We don't have enough of them.[/quote]

No sure how accurate but during the broadcast, was said that Femi chose DePaul over SJU because he felt he was a much better fit for that roster. Surely the prospect of playing time factored into his decision.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=327585]If I've learned anything from the Lavin and Mullin eras, it's that we need to recruit demeanor and basketball IQ also. Look at Ponds and his demeanor and then look at any Nova player. Nova players act like professionals and they are totally dedicated. Some of our players look like they go through the motions.[/quote]

Seems to me that the lack of dedication would be on our coaching staff, and as we know our coach himself has a very laid back approach. I have never been in the dressing room with Jay Wright but would have no doubt that he politely gets in his players faces prior to game time.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327607][quote="Class of 72" post=327508]We have very sub par talent except for a couple of players. No system Mullin cooks up can camouflage that. Our so-called best defender held his man to 43 points and fouled out. All while dribbling uncontrollably and missing open men.
Our CENTERS collected 2 points. We had a season record number of players with 4 fouls and fouling out.
It's the end of the season when experience counts but Mullin just now needs players like Robert's and Williams to cover for the deficiencies of Keita and Simon when it was obvious earlier even to blind Willy.
What we all thought was great Transfer U recruiting by Matt may not be that impressive after all is said and done and it's not his fault. While Matt was with Femi, Mullin and Mitch had other things to do. Some of it related to Golden State. We complained to deaf ears here and were admonished. We got lucky with Heron. We got unlucky with Keita. The basketball Gods have not been kind. Players beat opposing players. We don't have enough of them.[/quote]

No sure how accurate but during the broadcast, was said that Femi chose DePaul over SJU because he felt he was a much better fit for that roster. Surely the prospect of playing time factored into his decision.[/quote]

I really don't know either but our coaches should have seen the Keita deficiencies from day one and gone hard after Femi. That's both incompetence and laziness. Only Matt has seen these transfers play so the coaches have to make lemonade out of lemons if the transfers are a bust.
Just no way to run a program and I think the vast majority of supporters now see this. I'm waiting to see if Precious is a possibility out of prep school but no one we have or coming is going to change much. I promised to give this experiment 4 years. I'm just a fan by the television now. More important things in life than St. John's basketball.
 
Someebody tell me why a former nba
player is unable to coach his team how to adjust to system that defeated you several ties the same way?
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=327651][quote="Beast of the East" post=327607][quote="Class of 72" post=327508]We have very sub par talent except for a couple of players. No system Mullin cooks up can camouflage that. Our so-called best defender held his man to 43 points and fouled out. All while dribbling uncontrollably and missing open men.
Our CENTERS collected 2 points. We had a season record number of players with 4 fouls and fouling out.
It's the end of the season when experience counts but Mullin just now needs players like Robert's and Williams to cover for the deficiencies of Keita and Simon when it was obvious earlier even to blind Willy.
What we all thought was great Transfer U recruiting by Matt may not be that impressive after all is said and done and it's not his fault. While Matt was with Femi, Mullin and Mitch had other things to do. Some of it related to Golden State. We complained to deaf ears here and were admonished. We got lucky with Heron. We got unlucky with Keita. The basketball Gods have not been kind. Players beat opposing players. We don't have enough of them.[/quote]

No sure how accurate but during the broadcast, was said that Femi chose DePaul over SJU because he felt he was a much better fit for that roster. Surely the prospect of playing time factored into his decision.[/quote]

I really don't know either but our coaches should have seen the Keita deficiencies from day one and gone hard after Femi. That's both incompetence and laziness. Only Matt has seen these transfers play so the coaches have to make lemonade out of lemons if the transfers are a bust.
Just no way to run a program and I think the vast majority of supporters now see this. I'm waiting to see if Precious is a possibility out of prep school but no one we have or coming is going to change much. I promised to give this experiment 4 years. I'm just a fan by the television now. More important things in life than St. John's basketball.[/quote]

I don't follow this stuff, but how was Femi rated vs Keita or Roberts? I mean, he has produced well, but since we start 5 talented guys, would he even have gotten as much run as he had at DePaul?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327653]
I don't follow this stuff, but how was Femi rated vs Keita or Roberts? I mean, he has produced well, but since we start 5 talented guys, would he even have gotten as much run as he had at DePaul?[/quote]

The key would have been to not tell him that he might be 6th man. His stats don't actually jump out, but he's a zillion times better than Keita with the ball, so he would have given us scoring punch. Plus when Marv is playing bad, we could have sat him and replaced him with someone who could actually get a basket for us. Rebounding not great, but that just means he'd feel right at home here.

But I'm totally impressed with his level of bitterness toward us that he looks like an absolute world beater when we play.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=327677][quote="Beast of the East" post=327653]
I don't follow this stuff, but how was Femi rated vs Keita or Roberts? I mean, he has produced well, but since we start 5 talented guys, would he even have gotten as much run as he had at DePaul?[/quote]

The key would have been to not tell him that he might be 6th man. His stats don't actually jump out, but he's a zillion times better than Keita with the ball, so he would have given us scoring punch. Plus when Marv is playing bad, we could have sat him and replaced him with someone who could actually get a basket for us. Rebounding not great, but that just means he'd feel right at home here.

But I'm totally impressed with his level of bitterness toward us that he looks like an absolute world beater when we play.[/quote]

Well, Mullin would never lie to a kid and tell him he's going to start when he knows what the deal is. So given that, I'm sure the path to immediate playing time was much clearer at DePaul. It was that decision that steered Ellison towards Pitt when he saw his playing time decreasing here.

I'm gonna guess he isn't bitter at all. He chose DePaul over SJU.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327653][quote="Class of 72" post=327651][quote="Beast of the East" post=327607][quote="Class of 72" post=327508]We have very sub par talent except for a couple of players. No system Mullin cooks up can camouflage that. Our so-called best defender held his man to 43 points and fouled out. All while dribbling uncontrollably and missing open men.
Our CENTERS collected 2 points. We had a season record number of players with 4 fouls and fouling out.
It's the end of the season when experience counts but Mullin just now needs players like Robert's and Williams to cover for the deficiencies of Keita and Simon when it was obvious earlier even to blind Willy.
What we all thought was great Transfer U recruiting by Matt may not be that impressive after all is said and done and it's not his fault. While Matt was with Femi, Mullin and Mitch had other things to do. Some of it related to Golden State. We complained to deaf ears here and were admonished. We got lucky with Heron. We got unlucky with Keita. The basketball Gods have not been kind. Players beat opposing players. We don't have enough of them.[/quote]

No sure how accurate but during the broadcast, was said that Femi chose DePaul over SJU because he felt he was a much better fit for that roster. Surely the prospect of playing time factored into his decision.[/quote]

I really don't know either but our coaches should have seen the Keita deficiencies from day one and gone hard after Femi. That's both incompetence and laziness. Only Matt has seen these transfers play so the coaches have to make lemonade out of lemons if the transfers are a bust.
Just no way to run a program and I think the vast majority of supporters now see this. I'm waiting to see if Precious is a possibility out of prep school but no one we have or coming is going to change much. I promised to give this experiment 4 years. I'm just a fan by the television now. More important things in life than St. John's basketball.[/quote]

I don't follow this stuff, but how was Femi rated vs Keita or Roberts? I mean, he has produced well, but since we start 5 talented guys, would he even have gotten as much run as he had at DePaul?[/quote] Your comparing a grad transfer,BE ready player to a true freshman and soph. But, the thing about Femi is he is just what we are lacking, a junk yard dog w an inside game and who rebounds. As I said I think we could have had him if our staff had the courtesy of being there for his visit. Furthermore , we would have been able to compete w big teams instead of writing them off as a bad matchup.
 
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Richard A. Steinfeld wrote: Your comparing a grad transfer,BE ready player to a true freshman and soph. But, the thing about Femi is he is just what we are lacking, a junk yard dog w an inside game and who rebounds. As I said I think we could have had him if our staff had the courtesy of being there for his visit. Furthermore , we would have been able to compete w big teams instead of writing them off as a bad matchup.

Yes, Femi was expected to produce for a Power 5 team as he was a grad transfer who averaged 17 ppg and 8 rebounds for North Carolina A&T with a real power forward's strength. That is why half of this board was screaming to go after him last spring as our designated elusive grad transfer big for that year. Impossible to say for sure why he chose Depaul over us (many speculated it was his feeling that our style of play was not conducive to big men) but there is no doubt he would have helped us big time and many here saw that at the time.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327703][quote="L J S A" post=327677][quote="Beast of the East" post=327653]
I don't follow this stuff, but how was Femi rated vs Keita or Roberts? I mean, he has produced well, but since we start 5 talented guys, would he even have gotten as much run as he had at DePaul?[/quote]

The key would have been to not tell him that he might be 6th man. His stats don't actually jump out, but he's a zillion times better than Keita with the ball, so he would have given us scoring punch. Plus when Marv is playing bad, we could have sat him and replaced him with someone who could actually get a basket for us. Rebounding not great, but that just means he'd feel right at home here.

But I'm totally impressed with his level of bitterness toward us that he looks like an absolute world beater when we play.[/quote]

Well, Mullin would never lie to a kid and tell him he's going to start when he knows what the deal is. So given that, I'm sure the path to immediate playing time was much clearer at DePaul. It was that decision that steered Ellison towards Pitt when he saw his playing time decreasing here.

I'm gonna guess he isn't bitter at all. He chose DePaul over SJU.[/quote]

When Femi visited we didn't know who our starting five were going to be.
Heron was still at Auburn and awaiting release. We weren't even sure the NCAA would clear him. Figgy wasn't penciled in as a starter yet. Keita had practiced with the team so his deficiencies should have been apparent to 2 NBA guys.
Femi wouldchave come as we were his first visit. When you see Mullin next time ask him about Femi. I'm pretty sure he will lie to you in his answer just as he told his players to not answer questions regarding his whereabouts during the Walk for the Cure.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327703]Well, Mullin would never lie to a kid and tell him he's going to start when he knows what the deal is.[/quote]

It would have been Matt lying. Mullin never showed up for the campus visit.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=327729][quote="Beast of the East" post=327703]Well, Mullin would never lie to a kid and tell him he's going to start when he knows what the deal is.[/quote]

It would have been Matt lying. Mullin never showed up for the campus visit.[/quote]

Is that true? If so it's a real shame.
 
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