Syracuse Billboard at Yankee Stadium

[otis]

Former SU Athletic director Jake Crothemal lobbied the remaining Big East schools to not schedule Boston College, UMiami, and VaTeck after those schools left the Big East with the hope of isolating them from the northeast media. Jake was a very shrewd businessman.

It is my sincere hope that St. John's, G'town, Yukon, Villanova, and Providence follow Crothemal's advice and refuse to schedule the University of Syracuse and Pitt$ after those 2 schools leave the Big East.

 

[dff6]

 I don't think you will see Cuse playing ACC games at MSG or even Barclays. I think you will still see them involved in pre-season tournaments and those other mini tournaments like CVC and Jimmy V which give them the Garden stage.

 

If you're correct, Moose, I don't think the mini tourneys at MSG/Barclays give Cuse the same presence/exposure in the NYC area (at least I hope not!).

 

Maybe I'm blocking out things I'd rather not remember but what games did they play at MSG? The definitely played in NIT's and CVC's. They played in the Jimmy V. What other games did they play? I thought most of them had a rhyme and reason and it wasn't just random games? I think they were just very shrewd in insuring they played in MSG related events outside of our game and the BET.
-----------------------
So I went and looked it up.


Outside of 04/05 when they doubled up (might have been a mistake that was then addressed) they have just been smart to be involved with each MSG event.

Looking back-

11/12- NIT
10/11- Jimmy V
09/10- CVC
08/09- Nothing
07/08- NIT
06/07- Jimmy V
05/06- 2k Sports which is now defunct I think
04/05- CVC AND Jimmy V
03/04- Nothing
02/03- CVC
01/02- NIT  

 

Nice crack research!! You make a good point. Cuse will shrewdly play its schedule to ensure having some games in the NYC area, especially now that all of their away games are totally out of the Northeast region. 

 

[Moose]

 I don't think you will see Cuse playing ACC games at MSG or even Barclays. I think you will still see them involved in pre-season tournaments and those other mini tournaments like CVC and Jimmy V which give them the Garden stage.

 

If you're correct, Moose, I don't think the mini tourneys at MSG/Barclays give Cuse the same presence/exposure in the NYC area (at least I hope not!).

 

Maybe I'm blocking out things I'd rather not remember but what games did they play at MSG? The definitely played in NIT's and CVC's. They played in the Jimmy V. What other games did they play? I thought most of them had a rhyme and reason and it wasn't just random games? I think they were just very shrewd in insuring they played in MSG related events outside of our game and the BET.
-----------------------
So I went and looked it up.


Outside of 04/05 when they doubled up (might have been a mistake that was then addressed) they have just been smart to be involved with each MSG event.

Looking back-

11/12- NIT
10/11- Jimmy V
09/10- CVC
08/09- Nothing
07/08- NIT
06/07- Jimmy V
05/06- 2k Sports which is now defunct I think
04/05- CVC AND Jimmy V
03/04- Nothing
02/03- CVC
01/02- NIT  

 

Nice crack research!! You make a good point. Cuse will shrewdly play its schedule to ensure having some games in the NYC area, especially now that all of their away games are totally out of the Northeast region. 

 

It just seems worse because most of those tournaments are 2 games, then add an STJ game, and 2-3 rounds in the BE and all of a sudden they are playing 6 games in MSG when we were playing 7-8 games ourselves.

 

[oldfan61]

 "Carolina's" Team would be insane to schedule home games at the Garden or at the other place in Brooklyn. What coach, other than a crazy one would give up a home court that produces 100% home court fans, between 18,000 and 32.000 of them at a time, to almost guarantee 14 wins every year before they start playing in the ACC?
From now on they start each season ranked 3rd in their conference , at best, and then go from there. Does anyone think that NC and Duke are going to fold their tents in the upcoming decades? SU will need those 12-14 guaranteed wins in their win column before traveling south to friendly places like Raleigh, Talahassee, and wherever Clemson is locate in SC, where they ain't gonna find no Orangemen in the stands.
What you will find is SU further "beefing" up their pre-season at Governoe Carey's dome with traditional up state rivaries, D-2's. and big names with little programs (read Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho State). Chancellor Kantor will follow her dream of being top of mind in NYC but, as long as Boeheim lives, there will not be a home game in MSG unless it's against Dowling College or in a tourney. He's a lot of things but he is not crazy.

 

[Jack Williams]

Lets be honest here, College Basketball is my favorite sport to watch, and STJ my favorite team. But you have to put bias aside and see that STj has not been relevant in college basketball in a very long time. And by relevant I mean top 10 team and making it deep into the tourney. You don't see Saint Joes getting all this rep, no, because Villanova and Temple have been better than them consistently. It is like NYJ and NYG, One overshadows the other. We have to deal with it. 

 

[fuchsia]

 Y'all have fun back home, heah.

 

[bamafan]

It all depends on how successful they are. If they are a top 10 team w/out Boeheim in the future, then you have to think they will be scheduling games in MSG. Dolan isn't turning down a Cuse game, they pack the place.

 

Wouldn't Syracuse lose potential revenue on that deal? 20,000 at MSG is way less then the 35,000 the Dome would likely get for a big game. Makes financial sense for MSG, but maybe not for Syracuse.

 
Ticket prices at Garden probably 2-3x higher plus if they want NYC area exposure.

 

[kred]

The tone deaf St. John's Administration is the same group that had Brian Colleary as its Senior Associate Athletic Director until he was terminated for the reason stated in newspapers of selling choice seats earmarked for St. John's alums/ contributors to fans of other teams.

Syracuse is media savvy. Syracuse's sophistication extends beyond Brandon Steiner and the NY Yankees to all other aspects of media relations. SU President Nancy Cantor understands that advertising, media relations, winning sport teams on down to team apparel translate s into improved academic profile, SAT scores, alumni contributions and the like.

St. John's pretty much runs itself as a mom and pop operation as it did in the 1950's and 1960's.

 

In the business capitol of the world we have to take marketing lessons from a backwater town like Syracuse. Even when we take a step forward ( hiring Coach Lavin ) we take several steps back ( losing KBA, allowing opposing teams jerseys to be sold at our "home" games, no marketing pizzazz at all . It's disheartening .

 

[dff6]

Anyone know if SJU has a marketing and merchandising coordinator or director? Seems only natural that if we hire Lavin, a sports media star who is in the process of putting SJU back on the map of relevancy, why wouldn't SJU take full advantage of this enhanced visibility by also hiring a specialized marketing person or team (could be an outside agency) to push the product, so to speak?  

 

[Marillac]

 "Carolina's" Team would be insane to schedule home games at the Garden or at the other place in Brooklyn. What coach, other than a crazy one would give up a home court that produces 100% home court fans, between 18,000 and 32.000 of them at a time, to almost guarantee 14 wins every year before they start playing in the ACC?
From now on they start each season ranked 3rd in their conference , at best, and then go from there. Does anyone think that NC and Duke are going to fold their tents in the upcoming decades? SU will need those 12-14 guaranteed wins in their win column before traveling south to friendly places like Raleigh, Talahassee, and wherever Clemson is locate in SC, where they ain't gonna find no Orangemen in the stands.
What you will find is SU further "beefing" up their pre-season at Governoe Carey's dome with traditional up state rivaries, D-2's. and big names with little programs (read Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho State). Chancellor Kantor will follow her dream of being top of mind in NYC but, as long as Boeheim lives, there will not be a home game in MSG unless it's against Dowling College or in a tourney. He's a lot of things but he is not crazy.

 

I somewhat agree with you, but Syracuse will not be running scared of playing one game in the Garden. They could schedule Iona, Manhattan, or Fordham and whoop them without fear of a loss. It is going to be a home game for them any with the turnout. They'll outnumber any of those programs 3-1. Whether they would give up a conference game is a different story. The home court advantage of the Dome is undeniable.

Syracuse can be in a very tough spot if the ball doesn't bounce right for them. STJ and Syracuse will be VERY close this year in terms of on-court success. I think the world of Triche and all that he brings to Syracuse as a senior, but he is the only thing that might make them a better team that us next year. If we surpass them this year--certainly by next year, IMO--that makes things so much tougher. If all of the Big East teams ban together in protest, Syracuse will have a tough time finding an opponent to draw fans to the Garden. Remember, we supply a ton of fans to the SU-STJ games and the CVC and NIT have huge named opponents. Without STJ, would 8-10,000 fans be enough for MSG to give Syracuse a weekend date?

 

[malex]

Cuse alumni here, but fan of the Johnnies as well. Lavin was a great hire. Great recruiter and he gets his teams to really play.

Disagree with your assessment of Cuse this year Marillac. Triche is a good player (certainly not great), but I think we will go as MCW our Soph pt guard takes us. MCW didn't get a ton of minutes, but when he played he was very good and he showed much more emotion and leadership ability than Triche ever has. 6'5" point guards are not a dime a dozen. MCW might not be the quickest pt guard, but he is apt to getting in the lane and creating for others and possesses a pretty smooth floater and solid jumper. He also really buys into the defense of end of the game.

We will not be deep at the guard position by any means this year, but we will have 3 legit 3 point shooters: Cooney rs frosh (knock down 3 pt shooter in hs and top 50 recruit), MCW, and Triche. Our definite weakness will be backcourt depth.

Our team will really hinge on the development of Rakim Christmas and our frosh center Dejuan Coleman. Coleman is a space eater and definite boarder, but he needs to lose 20lbs or so to be able to get up and down the court. Whether he does or not is to be seen. He has the skills though. Christmas has the athleticism (not as much skill), but it hasn't clicked and his motor needs to be proven. He did show great signs of life towards the end of the year however.

We are pretty set at the wings with Southerland, Fair, and frosh J Grant. I'm expecting Fair to really step up this year. He was very good last year, but he was the 4th option on offense. I expect he will make all BE in some capacity. Praying that Southerland adds a little dribbling to his streaky shooting.

In any case, unless we suffer significant injuries/ suspensions, I see us being no worse than a top 20 team with upside into the top 10. As much as I like St Johns, I don't see them being a top 20 squad. With Harkless maybe, but without him I don't see it. Not enough depth to make it through the BE.

As for the Cuse future, watch out. We haven't recruited at this high of a level since the late 80's. We missed out on Noel this year, but we still brought in DaJuan Coleman and Jeremi Grant. Coleman was a McD AA and Grant was in the Jordan Brand game (lineage of Harvey Grant and Horace Grant(uncle). We also brought in Duke transfer Michael Gbinije (top 30 recruit with serious size at the 2 spot).

We are also hot on the heels of a number of top recruits in 2013 onward: Tyler Ennis, Noah Vonleh, Dakari Johnson etc...

We will be able to compete in the ACC without any problems. We play an uptempo style and so does most of the ACC. Our top recruiter was named the HC in waiting a number of years ago, so Cuse is well positioned for down the road. If 2012 didn't kill us, nothing will (I hope).

 

[otis]

Cuse alumni here.................
We will be able to compete in the ACC without any problems. We play an uptempo style and so does most of the ACC. Our top recruiter was named the HC in waiting a number of years ago, so Cuse is well positioned for down the road..

 

An impeccable source told me that Boeheim's current contract extends through the 2014- 2015 season and allows him to resign as basketball coach at any time and assume the position of Senior Associate Athletic Director at the same salary. The source indicated in December 2010 that they would be shocked of Boeheim remained as head coach for the duration of his remaining contract term and projected that 2012- 2013 may be his last season. Perhaps events have changed since December 2010 and Boeheim stay well past the current season but nevertheless Boeheim's eventual departure casts a shadow over the SU program.

By all accounts Mr. Hopkins is a personable and effective recruiter (a/k/a "salesmen") but he has absolutely no head coaching experience. There is a list of assistant coaches that were ace recruiters that when hired as head coaches to take over top programs that have failed. Time will tell whether Mr. Hopkins has the skills to be a head coach in an elite conference with no prior head coaching experience. Time will also tell whether SU's move to the ACC will have the same neutering effect on SU's athletics as it has had with Boston College and UMiami.

If you are honest you will agree that the certainty you stated in your post may be a bit overstated.  

 

[Marillac]

Cuse alumni here, but fan of the Johnnies as well. Lavin was a great hire. Great recruiter and he gets his teams to really play.

Disagree with your assessment of Cuse this year Marillac. Triche is a good player (certainly not great), but I think we will go as MCW our Soph pt guard takes us. MCW didn't get a ton of minutes, but when he played he was very good and he showed much more emotion and leadership ability than Triche ever has. 6'5" point guards are not a dime a dozen. MCW might not be the quickest pt guard, but he is apt to getting in the lane and creating for others and possesses a pretty smooth floater and solid jumper. He also really buys into the defense of end of the game.

We will not be deep at the guard position by any means this year, but we will have 3 legit 3 point shooters: Cooney rs frosh (knock down 3 pt shooter in hs and top 50 recruit), MCW, and Triche. Our definite weakness will be backcourt depth.

Our team will really hinge on the development of Rakim Christmas and our frosh center Dejuan Coleman. Coleman is a space eater and definite boarder, but he needs to lose 20lbs or so to be able to get up and down the court. Whether he does or not is to be seen. He has the skills though. Christmas has the athleticism (not as much skill), but it hasn't clicked and his motor needs to be proven. He did show great signs of life towards the end of the year however.

We are pretty set at the wings with Southerland, Fair, and frosh J Grant. I'm expecting Fair to really step up this year. He was very good last year, but he was the 4th option on offense. I expect he will make all BE in some capacity. Praying that Southerland adds a little dribbling to his streaky shooting.

In any case, unless we suffer significant injuries/ suspensions, I see us being no worse than a top 20 team with upside into the top 10. As much as I like St Johns, I don't see them being a top 20 squad. With Harkless maybe, but without him I don't see it. Not enough depth to make it through the BE.

As for the Cuse future, watch out. We haven't recruited at this high of a level since the late 80's. We missed out on Noel this year, but we still brought in DaJuan Coleman and Jeremi Grant. Coleman was a McD AA and Grant was in the Jordan Brand game (lineage of Harvey Grant and Horace Grant(uncle). We also brought in Duke transfer Michael Gbinije (top 30 recruit with serious size at the 2 spot).

We are also hot on the heels of a number of top recruits in 2013 onward: Tyler Ennis, Noah Vonleh, Dakari Johnson etc...

We will be able to compete in the ACC without any problems. We play an uptempo style and so does most of the ACC. Our top recruiter was named the HC in waiting a number of years ago, so Cuse is well positioned for down the road. If 2012 didn't kill us, nothing will (I hope).

 

Welcome aboard, Mike. I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I was a Big East fan before I was a St. John's fan, and one of my favorite teams was the Syracuse squad that made the championship game in (I think) 1996. By mentioning Triche as the only clear advantage SU holds over us, I didn't intend that to mean that he was your best player--it was more of a positional analysis. I expect MCW to make a huge jump and be a great player, but STJ's best player, D'Angelo Harrison, plays the same position. As good as MCW is, I think Harrison's experience gives us a slight advantage at that position. Harrison is just unreal, he was recently ranked as the #3 rising soph in the country, and he's only going to get better.

I have to be honest, though, I think Christmas has always been extremely overrated. At 6'9, he was only the third leading rebounder on his high school team. With that said, his athletic ability and length are perfect for the zone. Coleman on the other hand is not a typical Syracuse player by any means. He seems like he is made for a slow down, grind-it-out style of play. There is no way he'll b able to play anything but center in the 2-3 IMO. I can't imagine him ever closing out on a shooter in the corner!

I agree with you that Fair will be very good. Fair and Southerland will be a nice pair of athletic forwards for you guys. Nobody really projects us to do that well now after losing Moe--and probably rightfully so--but I do feel like we will be a tournament team for sure.

 

[bamafan]

Cuse alumni here, but fan of the Johnnies as well. Lavin was a great hire. Great recruiter and he gets his teams to really play.

Disagree with your assessment of Cuse this year Marillac. Triche is a good player (certainly not great), but I think we will go as MCW our Soph pt guard takes us. MCW didn't get a ton of minutes, but when he played he was very good and he showed much more emotion and leadership ability than Triche ever has. 6'5" point guards are not a dime a dozen. MCW might not be the quickest pt guard, but he is apt to getting in the lane and creating for others and possesses a pretty smooth floater and solid jumper. He also really buys into the defense of end of the game.

We will not be deep at the guard position by any means this year, but we will have 3 legit 3 point shooters: Cooney rs frosh (knock down 3 pt shooter in hs and top 50 recruit), MCW, and Triche. Our definite weakness will be backcourt depth.

Our team will really hinge on the development of Rakim Christmas and our frosh center Dejuan Coleman. Coleman is a space eater and definite boarder, but he needs to lose 20lbs or so to be able to get up and down the court. Whether he does or not is to be seen. He has the skills though. Christmas has the athleticism (not as much skill), but it hasn't clicked and his motor needs to be proven. He did show great signs of life towards the end of the year however.

We are pretty set at the wings with Southerland, Fair, and frosh J Grant. I'm expecting Fair to really step up this year. He was very good last year, but he was the 4th option on offense. I expect he will make all BE in some capacity. Praying that Southerland adds a little dribbling to his streaky shooting.

In any case, unless we suffer significant injuries/ suspensions, I see us being no worse than a top 20 team with upside into the top 10. As much as I like St Johns, I don't see them being a top 20 squad. With Harkless maybe, but without him I don't see it. Not enough depth to make it through the BE.

As for the Cuse future, watch out. We haven't recruited at this high of a level since the late 80's. We missed out on Noel this year, but we still brought in DaJuan Coleman and Jeremi Grant. Coleman was a McD AA and Grant was in the Jordan Brand game (lineage of Harvey Grant and Horace Grant(uncle). We also brought in Duke transfer Michael Gbinije (top 30 recruit with serious size at the 2 spot).

We are also hot on the heels of a number of top recruits in 2013 onward: Tyler Ennis, Noah Vonleh, Dakari Johnson etc...

We will be able to compete in the ACC without any problems. We play an uptempo style and so does most of the ACC. Our top recruiter was named the HC in waiting a number of years ago, so Cuse is well positioned for down the road. If 2012 didn't kill us, nothing will (I hope).

 

Welcome aboard, Mike. I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I was a Big East fan before I was a St. John's fan, and one of my favorite teams was the Syracuse squad that made the championship game in (I think) 1996. By mentioning Triche as the only clear advantage SU holds over us, I didn't intend that to mean that he was your best player--it was more of a positional analysis. I expect MCW to make a huge jump and be a great player, but STJ's best player, D'Angelo Harrison, plays the same position. As good as MCW is, I think Harrison's experience gives us a slight advantage at that position. Harrison is just unreal, he was recently ranked as the #3 rising soph in the country, and he's only going to get better.

I have to be honest, though, I think Christmas has always been extremely overrated. At 6'9, he was only the third leading rebounder on his high school team. With that said, his athletic ability and length are perfect for the zone. Coleman on the other hand is not a typical Syracuse player by any means. He seems like he is made for a slow down, grind-it-out style of play. There is no way he'll b able to play anything but center in the 2-3 IMO. I can't imagine him ever closing out on a shooter in the corner!

I agree with you that Fair will be very good. Fair and Southerland will be a nice pair of athletic forwards for you guys. Nobody really projects us to do that well now after losing Moe--and probably rightfully so--but I do feel like we will be a tournament team for sure.

 
BE fan before a ST J's fan? Favorite SYR team? You are a "Johnnie" come lately fan of St. J's and I use the term "Johnnie" loosely.

 

[LINY89]

 Honestly I've been surprised at how MUCH SJ advertising I've seen. In Manhattan all around the Garden we are on light poles...on almost every LIRR stop there has been big ads for SJ basketball...and even recently they are advertising the Lou Carnesecca golf outing heavily.