St. John's Rankings

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Yeah but we're ranked 4th amongst schools named St. John's. Let's give credit where credit is due.
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....but we are #1 in basketball amongst the St. John's!
Get us to the top 20 Mully and applications will increase dramatically so we can weed out the weed smokers at the bottom of the application pile.
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FWIW most of the folks I knew at Cornell smoked weed, got an Ivy League education, and are quite successful, many of whom still partake to this day. Just saying, it's not about the weed, it's about the smarts.
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I was being facetious about the weed smokers. Needed a segue to weed out. :) of course I meant weed out the low achievers that are routinely admitted to bolster tuition revenue. Being accepted to a 4 year university with a 900 SAT is not giving that student a chance but setting them up for disappointment when they either drop out, need 6 years to graduate or transfer to a community college where they belonged in the first place.
BTW, St. John's University offering associate degree courses and those students drastically reduce its academic profile. The Board of Trustees, this president and alumni need to decide if St. John's joins serious academic research institutions or wants to be viewed as a diploma mill. Personally, I don't think this president is up to the task.
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Just trying to understand your post. Are you saying which it appears that success id based on ones SAT score
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Of course not but our overall standards need to be on par with Villanova or Providence and they are not admitting freshmen that should be at a state or city junior college. We also need to distance ourselves from much more cost effective alternatives like CUNY and SUNY to survive.
BTW, the Forbes rankings lump every type of college and university, big and small, private and public into one big pot. It is not an accurate ranking against like schools. US News rankings are more realistic as to where we stand and even there there is no reason to be 30 points below Seton Hall!!!!!!
 
I hope we can move forward and improve academically, as well as put a basketball program together and not have to look back in time to enjoy stories from years past. Let's hope the response to "We are St. John's," doesn't continue to be, "So what?"
 
Not to harp on my post/point about methodology of rankings, as I don't expect St. John's to be near the top for a variety of reasons, and there are many things we can name that the admin can do better, but just as an example take a look at what just one example that comprised 32.5% of the criteria

22% of this 32.5% is based on a who's who of high achievers who are the outliers anyway...? Emmy Awards and Tony's.... really ???

Post-Graduate Success (32.5%)

Salary of alumni by school is a combination of data provided by Payscale.com (10%), the market leader in global online compensation data, the U.S. Department of Education’s College Scorecard. Each has its own strengths and shortcomings — Payscale is a vast repository of self-reported salaries and the College Scorecard is based on tax records but is limited to former students who took out federal loans. A blending of the two is the best way to get the most accurate picture of both early- and mi-career salaries.

But because success isn’t just about money, we reward schools where the establishment, influencers and innovators received their degrees. CCAP has compiled an America’s Leaders List (22.5%). Many appear on various FORBES lists (Power Women, 30 Under 30, CEOs on the Global 2000), plus Nobel and Pulitzer winners, Guggenheim and MacArthur Fellows, those elected to the National Academy of Sciences, winners of an Academy, Emmy, Tony or Grammy, and more.
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Within the pay scale is the bias. We know that a great many SJU graduates enter NYC civil services (police, fire, MTA, etc.). These are respectable professions, but the civic salaries in NYC are not on par with other major cities. Seattle even brazenly courts NYC police officers to move to Seattle for better pay. They put a billboard on West Side Highway.

I'm sure there is an algorithm that can correct for data biases like this. (I'm talking about salaries, not pensions)
 
Suny Buffalo and Albany college of pharmacy rank higher. That wasn't like that when I was there in the 80's. That's a huge issue that needs to be fixed.
 
I renounce my degree. However, I will remain a fan of the basketball program.

Queens College, a fine public institution, is right up the road. Better degree at a fraction of the cost. I can't believe how much money I spent for my daughter's crappy degree. At least it was much less expensive when I got mine.
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I think I mentioned it before, but my daughter has transferred out after two years and will be at SUNY Binghamton business school next year.


I've said this before but I'm a very recent alum and am having great success in my chosen field. No regrets about going to school at SJU academically. The social aspect was lacking but you know what you're getting into in that regard when you choose to come to SJU. I was far more prepared to succeed than any of my peers who went to other more highly rated schools.

Additionally, the network of SJU grads in NY is crazy, can't tell you how many interviews I've been on where the interviewer also went to St. John's. My current boss is actually an alum.

All of my friends who had the same major are having similar success. The school offers too many clown programs that produce unhappy grads who are saddled with debt. That's why the rankings stink.
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It was the social aspect which was the main reason she left. She excelled academically. However that being said, Binghamton was one of the schools I thought she would be better off at both academically and socially. Because of her academics, and the fact she came from a Catholic H.S., she received a nice financial package which brought the costs considerably down and closer to a SUNY (inclusive or Room and Board). But the overall cost is high especially based on the rankings.

I have a few years on you, but have no overall complaints about the education I received at St. John's and my career path which I believe has been a successful one. However, the Business, Law, Education and Pharmacy schools were all more highly regarded then.

A turnaround is needed. The dorms were suppose to help expand the reach and raise the profile of the University along with increases in compensation to attract faculty. All of this was part of a plan to increase enrollment and academic standing. Things haven't worked out as planned.
 
Can't argue with that transfer. Binghamton is a great school.

Anecdotally, several years ago, I took my mathematician father (an alum from the mid 1950s) and a friend who's a Harvard grad, to campus to hear a lecture by Prof. Brian Green (it was on string theory and was way over my head). My friend was a friend of Prof. Green from their days at Harvard. Anyway, when we were there, we walked through campus and a few buildings, and I was actually embarrassed by the language and conduct of the students we encountered. It comes down to the mission of the school and being basically open to anyone who graduated HS. The school has aimed to allow anyone to go who wants a college education. Rightly or wrongly, that affects the reputation, as well as the quality of the school.

For me, (I graduated in the early/mid 80s from the undergrad and law schools), I could never repay what earning my degree has meant to me and my career. But the school was different then, and yes the pharmacy and law schools were much more highly thought of then. I am happy to see that some of Dean Simons' impact has been positive at the law school, but the undergraduate school is in distress academically.
 
It sounds like part of the challenge is finding a way to teach students who've never been there before to "act like they've been there before". Role modeling is a key tool in my work in rehab including teaching people in recovery who have taken clinical jobs to "act like they've been there before". But a key difference may be the youth of the students and the fact that so many of the people I work with know what it is to have hit bottom.
 
Can't argue with that transfer. Binghamton is a great school.

Anecdotally, several years ago, I took my mathematician father (an alum from the mid 1950s) and a friend who's a Harvard grad, to campus to hear a lecture by Prof. Brian Green (it was on string theory and was way over my head). My friend was a friend of Prof. Green from their days at Harvard. Anyway, when we were there, we walked through campus and a few buildings, and I was actually embarrassed by the language and conduct of the students we encountered. It comes down to the mission of the school and being basically open to anyone who graduated HS. The school has aimed to allow anyone to go who wants a college education. Rightly or wrongly, that affects the reputation, as well as the quality of the school.

For me, (I graduated in the early/mid 80s from the undergrad and law schools), I could never repay what earning my degree has meant to me and my career. But the school was different then, and yes the pharmacy and law schools were much more highly thought of then. I am happy to see that some of Dean Simons' impact has been positive at the law school, but the undergraduate school is in distress academically.
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I'm also disappointed to see that the addition of the dorms hasn't helped to increase the profile of the school....I spent my first 2 years at SUNY/Albany and then transferred to SJU. I loved being away at school but, for me, sitting in lecture halls with up to 500 other students was not the best situation for my education. I was very happy with the more personal education I received at SJU. I was an Accounting major and landed a gig at (what is now) Price Waterhouse Coopers. I started there with grads from higher-rated Universities but we all started at the same salary and have had success in our careers. Once you graduate, it's all up to you how far you go.
 
Can't argue with that transfer. Binghamton is a great school.

Anecdotally, several years ago, I took my mathematician father (an alum from the mid 1950s) and a friend who's a Harvard grad, to campus to hear a lecture by Prof. Brian Green (it was on string theory and was way over my head). My friend was a friend of Prof. Green from their days at Harvard. Anyway, when we were there, we walked through campus and a few buildings, and I was actually embarrassed by the language and conduct of the students we encountered. It comes down to the mission of the school and being basically open to anyone who graduated HS. The school has aimed to allow anyone to go who wants a college education. Rightly or wrongly, that affects the reputation, as well as the quality of the school.

For me, (I graduated in the early/mid 80s from the undergrad and law schools), I could never repay what earning my degree has meant to me and my career. But the school was different then, and yes the pharmacy and law schools were much more highly thought of then. I am happy to see that some of Dean Simons' impact has been positive at the law school, but the undergraduate school is in distress academically.
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I'm also disappointed to see that the addition of the dorms hasn't helped to increase the profile of the school....I spent my first 2 years at SUNY/Albany and then transferred to SJU. I loved being away at school but, for me, sitting in lecture halls with up to 500 other students was not the best situation for my education. I was very happy with the more personal education I received at SJU. I was an Accounting major and landed a gig at (what is now) Price Waterhouse Coopers. I started there with grads from higher-rated Universities but we all started at the same salary and have had success in our careers. Once you graduate, it's all up to you how far you go.
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It is about having a clear mission and our mission is failing. While DePaul has increased its profile ours has stagnated under president Harrington and I don't see the current president as the answer. DePaul, a Vincention school, is ranked 37 out of 60 of the most popular private schools to attract Jewish students. There were more Jewish students at SJ when I attended. The dorms are new but the university housing off campus is poorly maintained. There is mismanagement at many levels. There should have been a school of nursing in a city with a shortage. Having a 4 year graduation rate of only 40% is a killer in the rankings. One could go on and on but getting this damn basketball program back to respectability would go a long way in improving our visibility and morale. ;)
 
The most telling fact regarding the image/ condition of StJohn's is that there are 100+/- devoted fans that are regular contributors to this site, who by and large, are alums, and who have fond feelings toward the school but few, if any (none that I know), have sent their kids to attend StJohn's University.

I am willing to keep an open mind regarding President "Bobby G" because of the broken condition which Harrington left the school. Work must be done.

As an outsider it appears that the current St. John's business model of having over 16,000 undergrad students is outdated. My guess is that the business plan of having a 15,000+ undergrad enrollment may have originated at a time before the SUNY system matured and cost of attendance was less of a factor.

IMO a school of 10,000 undergrad students with improved academic standards may serve the interests of the student. The challenge is how to downsize in a positive manner.

St.John's should investigate creating an Honors College for business (motto "St. John's Means Business") with the school busting it's butt to get the students in the Honor's College top internships.

Another option is to follow the lead of the University of Syracuse which accepts full pay students from China who cannot speak English into a 5 year program which has the students drilled in the English language for the first year. I am told that the increase in enrollment from China has been a financial bonanza for SU. Another poster on this site suggested that St.john's consider utilize the Staten Island campus for a like chines enrollment program.

Lets hope Bobby G can turn St.John's around.
 
The most telling fact regarding the image/ condition of StJohn's is that there are 100+/- devoted fans that are regular contributors to this site, who by and large, are alums, and who have fond feelings toward the school but few, if any (none that I know), have sent their kids to attend StJohn's University.

I am willing to keep an open mind regarding President "Bobby G" because of the broken condition which Harrington left the school. Work must be done.

As an outsider it appears that the current St. John's business model of having over 16,000 undergrad students is outdated. My guess is that the business plan of having a 15,000+ undergrad enrollment may have originated at a time before the SUNY system matured and cost of attendance was less of a factor.

IMO a school of 10,000 undergrad students with improved academic standards may serve the interests of the student. The challenge is how to downsize in a positive manner.

St.John's should investigate creating an Honors College for business (motto "St. John's Means Business") with the school busting it's butt to get the students in the Honor's College top internships.

Another option is to follow the lead of the University of Syracuse which accepts full pay students from China who cannot speak English into a 5 year program which has the students drilled in the English language for the first year. I am told that the increase in enrollment from China has been a financial bonanza for SU. Another poster on this site suggested that St.john's consider utilize the Staten Island campus for a like chines enrollment program.

Lets hope Bobby G can turn St.John's around.
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We are still a school of many first generation college students and yes, many alums send their children to the best schools that they can afford but truth be told, many alums just cannot afford a St. John's tuition and readily send their kids to SUNY schools when feasible. A great many redmen fans here are pre dorm grads who experienced very little social life of a traditional college campus. That has been changing at St. John's and hopefully the dorm generation's children will see a future St. John's more inviting if standards are tightened. Image is very important to young college students and we are in need of a major rebranding academically. I like the idea of attracting more foreign students but Syracuse is using the recent wealth of China to admit non-English speaking students as cash cows just as we use marginally qualified NY area high school graduates as cash cows in some of our academic programs at St. John's. I would rather increase the enrollment rate of higher achieving high school graduates by offering more scholarships and incentives. Many of those higher achieving students are Chinese Americans who don't need a year to learn some English to proceed to English speaking classes.
 
The most telling fact regarding the image/ condition of StJohn's is that there are 100+/- devoted fans that are regular contributors to this site, who by and large, are alums, and who have fond feelings toward the school but few, if any (none that I know), have sent their kids to attend StJohn's University.

I am willing to keep an open mind regarding President "Bobby G" because of the broken condition which Harrington left the school. Work must be done.

As an outsider it appears that the current St. John's business model of having over 16,000 undergrad students is outdated. My guess is that the business plan of having a 15,000+ undergrad enrollment may have originated at a time before the SUNY system matured and cost of attendance was less of a factor.

IMO a school of 10,000 undergrad students with improved academic standards may serve the interests of the student. The challenge is how to downsize in a positive manner.

St.John's should investigate creating an Honors College for business (motto "St. John's Means Business") with the school busting it's butt to get the students in the Honor's College top internships.

Another option is to follow the lead of the University of Syracuse which accepts full pay students from China who cannot speak English into a 5 year program which has the students drilled in the English language for the first year. I am told that the increase in enrollment from China has been a financial bonanza for SU. Another poster on this site suggested that St.john's consider utilize the Staten Island campus for a like chines enrollment program.

Lets hope Bobby G can turn St.John's around.
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Nice analysis Otis. My daughter graduated from SJU 5 years ago with an English degree. She was not impressed with the rigor required for most classes, coming from a Catholic high school. A lot of money for the sheep skin.
 
I love this topic, a few years back I was laughed at on this site for sju doing a tuition decrease or freeze. Last year they followed suit at Staten Island for the cut and queens for a freeze. Sju is in serious trouble as are other private colleges with high tuitions their current business model is to get as many pell eligible students on board to help keep the operation going. The problem with that is artificially raising tuition each year to such a point where the non-pell folks can't afford it and make the wise decision not to pursue sju. What sju needs to do is sell oakdale ASAP , phase out majors that are not a great fit for the future and invest in science and tech. Also this is unheard of but use money in your endowment to save the school while cutting useless admin staff. Look at schools that have improved in the last 20 years and follow their business model. Northeastern comes to mind.
 
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