St. John's All-Time Starting 5 / The TABLET
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jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Have to find room for the great Tony Jackson
beast of the east
Active member
Not sure of the age of the author, but choosing 3 guys who played on the Final Four team seems too narrow. Then again, by position, was Wennington the best center as a Johnnie? Or Jayson Williams? Or even Billy Paultz for that matter. Was Reggie Carter a better player for St. John's than Mark Jackson was? Maybe in his era Dick McGuire was a better Johnny than either.
Never saw Tony Jackson play, but those who saw him think he belongs.
Never saw Tony Jackson play, but those who saw him think he belongs.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="lawmanfan" post=392384]Ask Muse about Tony Jackson - pretty sure he will tell you TJ was an all-timer[/quote]
Musa is great! Sits next to me at MSG. Knows his stuff.
Musa is great! Sits next to me at MSG. Knows his stuff.
well before my time and different era but Bob Zowaluk had some impressive #'s at center
[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bob-zawoluk-1.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bob-zawoluk-1.html[/URL]
No way you keep any of Mullin, Berry or Sonny Dove off the all time great Johnny team. Dove played for the first Johnny teams I saw in person. He is one of only two Johnnies to have both 1,000 points and 1,000 rebounds and averaged 23 ppg as a senior on a team that went 23-5. Great mid range jump shot and superior rebounder at 6'7" or 6'8". He played mostly center for St. John's and was the best at that position I've seen (never saw Leroy Ellis or Zawoluk play for St. John's).
Based on input from posters who saw him play, sounds like Tony Jackson belongs and names like George Johnson, Malik Sealy and Mark Jackson certainly are in the conversation. I'm reluctant to put guys who only played two years with the top 5; can make an exception with Berry since his two years were so dominant, harder to justify with Artest imho. Just my two cents.
Based on input from posters who saw him play, sounds like Tony Jackson belongs and names like George Johnson, Malik Sealy and Mark Jackson certainly are in the conversation. I'm reluctant to put guys who only played two years with the top 5; can make an exception with Berry since his two years were so dominant, harder to justify with Artest imho. Just my two cents.
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[quote="Roamer" post=392395]Shouldn’t any starting 5 have Artest?[/quote]
Artest would be on my all time St. John's roster and would get plenty of playing time. I only go back to the early 80's (probably Mullin's Freshman year) so the only person that I could argue is Jackson and the only player that could replace him is Barkley. I would go with a starting five of Barkley, Artest, Sealy, Berry and Mullin from my days. There are plenty of good players to come off the bench. I will leave the pre 80's to those who saw them although there are good players that have not been seen by any on here.
Artest would be on my all time St. John's roster and would get plenty of playing time. I only go back to the early 80's (probably Mullin's Freshman year) so the only person that I could argue is Jackson and the only player that could replace him is Barkley. I would go with a starting five of Barkley, Artest, Sealy, Berry and Mullin from my days. There are plenty of good players to come off the bench. I will leave the pre 80's to those who saw them although there are good players that have not been seen by any on here.
Pick any of these Players for a All Time Team: Mullin , Berry , Mark Jackson , Tony Jackson , Sonny Dove, Malik Sealy , George Johnson , Reggie Carter . And , for a Second All Time Team for them to play against , Artest , Barkley, Jayson Williams , Marcus Hatten , Ponds , Harrison , Wennington, Billy Schaefer, Mel Davis
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=392401]Pick any of these Players for a All Time Team: Mullin , Berry , Mark Jackson , Tony Jackson , Sonny Dove, Malik Sealy , George Johnson , Reggie Carter . And , for a Second All Time Team for them to play against , Artest , Barkley, Jayson Williams , Marcus Hatten , Ponds , Harrison , Wennington, Billy Schaefer, Mel Davis[/quote]
Too tough to compare players who never competed at same time, or even in same era. We have had so many excellent players. List above comprehensive, but I would add John Warren, of players I actually had opportunity to watch, and maybe McIntyre bros, Kevin Loughery and Leroy Ellis, from those I have only vague memory.
Too tough to compare players who never competed at same time, or even in same era. We have had so many excellent players. List above comprehensive, but I would add John Warren, of players I actually had opportunity to watch, and maybe McIntyre bros, Kevin Loughery and Leroy Ellis, from those I have only vague memory.
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Ray Morgan
Well-known member
The absence of video and complete statistics for any former St. John's player before the 1980s makes this a more difficult task I did not get to see Tony Jackson, and Ellis only as a pro.
Wouldn't it be great if the Athletic Department dug into the depths of their film and video library and put what they have from the 50s, 60s and 70s on Youtube. Or sell a series of videos to benefit students in need or another good cause.
Slam dunks:
Mullin, Berry and Jackson. Yes, all on the final 4 team. But that's an indication of their greatness. Both Berry and Jackson had senior seasons that were absolutely outstanding.
Since the team needs a natural center, I would have Leroy Ellis over George Johnson. George was great, but was forced to play center since no one else could. Then again, I only saw Ellis as a pro.
I did see Sonny Dove in college. No argument there. No real SF, but that's OK. Honorable mention to Sealy, who did so many things well that there would be no real drop-off with the late, great Malik in the game. Plus he was a really good man. I would also want Mel Davis and his ferocity off the bench, and Billy Schaeffer. Just a great shooter, scorer and clutch player. It would be great to see the program's 2 greatest shooters In Billy and Chris on the court at the same time, with Mark Jackson or Erick Barkley finding the open man.
Sad part is the top 5 all played before 1990. Even adding Barkley or Artest, we are only taken to 1999. The team is due for a superstar.
Wouldn't it be great if the Athletic Department dug into the depths of their film and video library and put what they have from the 50s, 60s and 70s on Youtube. Or sell a series of videos to benefit students in need or another good cause.
Slam dunks:
Mullin, Berry and Jackson. Yes, all on the final 4 team. But that's an indication of their greatness. Both Berry and Jackson had senior seasons that were absolutely outstanding.
Since the team needs a natural center, I would have Leroy Ellis over George Johnson. George was great, but was forced to play center since no one else could. Then again, I only saw Ellis as a pro.
I did see Sonny Dove in college. No argument there. No real SF, but that's OK. Honorable mention to Sealy, who did so many things well that there would be no real drop-off with the late, great Malik in the game. Plus he was a really good man. I would also want Mel Davis and his ferocity off the bench, and Billy Schaeffer. Just a great shooter, scorer and clutch player. It would be great to see the program's 2 greatest shooters In Billy and Chris on the court at the same time, with Mark Jackson or Erick Barkley finding the open man.
Sad part is the top 5 all played before 1990. Even adding Barkley or Artest, we are only taken to 1999. The team is due for a superstar.
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Ray Morgan
Well-known member
[quote="Roamer" post=392395]Shouldn’t any starting 5 have Artest?[/quote]
We never got to see the best of Ron Artest. He was still improving as a player. With 1 more season filling the stat sheets, maybe, but who does he replace?
We never got to see the best of Ron Artest. He was still improving as a player. With 1 more season filling the stat sheets, maybe, but who does he replace?
Knight wrote: What about Billy Paultzman at center? 2years , 12pts, 10.6 rebs.
Paultz & Wennington were both fine pure centers for St. John's but nowhere close to the players that George Johnson & Sonny Dove were and those two both played at the center position much of the time. Johnson is still the all time leading rebounder and Dove averaged over 20 ppg and 13 rebounds his last two years and was 3rd team All American as a junior and 2nd team (UPI) as a senior.
Paultz & Wennington were both fine pure centers for St. John's but nowhere close to the players that George Johnson & Sonny Dove were and those two both played at the center position much of the time. Johnson is still the all time leading rebounder and Dove averaged over 20 ppg and 13 rebounds his last two years and was 3rd team All American as a junior and 2nd team (UPI) as a senior.