St. John’s (2020-21)

O

Ottrando23

Member
With the roster being set for next year contingent on Figueroa coming back (Also heard McGriff whispers?) I figured i’d throw this out there. Obviously, this is probably way off with 6 months left before the season but here it is.

Starters
PG - Dunn (Sr.)
SG - Cole (Jr.)
SF - Figueroa (Sr.)
PF - Champagnie (So.)
C - Moore (Jr.)

2nd
PG - Alexander (Fr.)
SG - Williams (Jr.)
SF - Caraher (Jr.)
PF - Earlington (Jr.)
C - Toro (Sr.)

3rd
PG - McGriff (Fr.)
SG - Wusu (Fr.)
C - Roberts (Jr.)

- This Johnny roster is kind of crazy to me, because 1-13 all look like they could get meaningful playing time at some point next season. Not crazy star power at the top, but a lot of depth and balance is what I see.

PG
- Dunn isn’t exactly your prototypical point guard as he likes to score, but he is the obvious best point guard on this years roster. Alexander and McGriff are the only true point guards on the roster, but as freshman I can’t see them putting up a fight against a senior Dunn for the starting spot. The only battle here should be between Alexander and McGriff for the back up spot. All in all, I see Dunn as a tough middle of the pack Big East starting point guard with a tough 3 star Bronx freshman in Posh Alexander taking over the point in spurts. I like Posh to start his following 3 seasons, guy just has a toughness about him.

SG
- To me, Cole will be the obvious second option on this squad right behind Figueroa. Cole and Figueroa’s JUCO stats are eerily similar. I believe Cole and Figueroa also both led there JUCO teams to a top 10 ranking. Similar to figueroa, Cole should put up somewhere around 13-15 per game and should be a top 15-20 Big East player from the get go. On top of that, Cole shot it 90% from the line last season.

JUCO Stats (Final Season)
LJ Figueroa - 21.4PPG - 5.5RPG - 3.7APG
Vince Cole - 21.4PPG - 5.5RPG - 3.5APG

- I have seen some people think Williams should be the starting 2 guard but with Cole and Figueroa on the roster I just can’t see it. Obviously, not a slight on Williams, he improved every game last season and would be a very solid back up shooting guard. I just dont think he is at the same level as Cole. However, if Figueroa bolts, Williams to the 2, Cole to the 3. Other than that, Wusu is an unknown as a freshman but he passes the eye test for sure.

SF
- Like last season, Figueroa is the obvious star of the team if he comes back for his senior year. He had some up and downs as the number 1 option last season, but I believe he would take better advantage of it next season. Averaging north of 15 should be easy for him at this point. Top 10 Big East type of player for sure. Also, Caraher proved to be a capable back up at the wing in the Big East. I think it’s pretty solid to have him as your 9th or 10th man

PF
- Champagnie is probably the biggest suprise i’ve seen since I started watching the Johnnies about 10 years ago. Everytime i watched last season i’d constantly say this guy is insane for a freshman in the Big East. Its crazy too, cause he looks like hes only going to get better. Athletc, long, wirery, will post up, can shoot it. 5 tool type of guy as a freshman. More than capable Big East starter at this point with crazy potential. Then you got Earlington, who is really just a beast. Always seems to be in the right spot for offensive rebounds and easy lay ups. He just seems to make big shots when hes out there. Both these guys just get it done.

C
- As for the centers it looks like we have 3 guys who would be role players on a good Big East team at this point. I ordered it Moore, Toro, and then Roberts, but you could easily flip it, I have no clue. I don’t see any of these guys being dominant next year, but we have 3 solid options at center for sure, which we haven’t seen in a long time. Moore seems to have the most potential. Toro looks to be a solid back up in the Big East. Roberts showed glimpses last season, but just seemed out matched in Big East play.

- Sorry for the long post it was just flowing out, but all in all we look like we go at least 2 deep from point guard to center, with 9 upper classman, 20 wins should be the minimum for Anderson.
 
Think you're pretty spot on with your assessment, although I wouldn't be surprised if CMA gives Williams a chance to start and Cole becomes the starter after several games in. CMA typically gives his returnees the starting roles at the beginning of the season and it's on the new guys to beat them out. To end the season Williams played extremely well, I think CMA will let him ride that momentum into the start of the season. But, everything you said about Cole having the higher ceiling and having the ability to get 13-15 a night I completely agree with. Even if he starts the season coming off the bench he'll get plenty of playing time and shots up.

Also, that center spot as you mentioned seems to be the biggest question mark, it can go either way with any of them. As I mentioned above CMA typically gives his returnees the starting spot to start the season, however I think Robert's situation is different, because before the injury his minutes and role was starting to get drastically reduced. As competition got better he seemed to be less effective. I would lean towards Toro being the day 1 starter, he's a 5th year senior, probably the most polished out of the 3, I really like Moore, but I think he's gotta add some weight and may be a guy that takes 1/2 year to a year to put it together against Big East competition.
 
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[quote="Making Plays" post=384249]Think you're pretty spot on with your assessment, although I wouldn't be surprised if CMA gives Williams a chance to start and Cole becomes the starter after several games in. CMA typically gives his returnees the starting roles at the beginning of the season and it's on the new guys to beat them out. To end the season Williams played extremely well, I think CMA will let him ride that momentum into the start of the season. But, everything you said about Cole having the higher ceiling and having the ability to get 13-15 a night I completely agree with. Even if he starts the season coming off the bench he'll get plenty of playing time and shots up.

Also, that center spot as you mentioned seems to be the biggest question mark, it can go either way with any of them. As I mentioned above CMA typically gives his returnees the starting spot to start the season, however I think Robert's situation is different, because before the injury his minutes and role was starting to get drastically reduced. As competition got better he seemed to be less effective. I would lean towards Toro being the day 1 starter, he's a 5th year senior, probably the most polished out of the 3, I really like Moore, but I think he's gotta add some weight and may be a guy that takes 1/2 year to a year to put it together against Big East competition.[/quote]

Yea, for sure, I have noticed that with CMA. Cole and Williams are both going to see major minutes either way. Williams is definetly on his way up, got better every game last year and will be a solidified starter here by the end of his career.

Also, for the centers I definetly agree. It really is a toss up. It could end up depending on who’s hot and the match up.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=384257]I think of Moore as a stretch 4 with ability to help as weakside defender with his length.[/quote]
Exactly what he is.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=384258][quote="fuchsia" post=384257]I think of Moore as a stretch 4 with ability to help as weakside defender with his length.[/quote]
Exactly what he is.[/quote]
Yea that’s probably his most natural position, but at the end of the day any guy that is 6’10 on St. John’s is going to end up at center. I used to hear the same thing about Owens. If you look at the 3 of them I don’t know if any of them are true centers.
 
[quote="JO23" post=384260][quote="Paultzman" post=384258][quote="fuchsia" post=384257]I think of Moore as a stretch 4 with ability to help as weakside defender with his length.[/quote]
Exactly what he is.[/quote]
Yea that’s probably his most natural position, but at the end of the day any guy that is 6’10 on St. John’s is going to end up at center. I used to hear the same thing about Owens. If you look at the 3 of them I don’t know if any of them are true centers.[/quote]
Ending up there and being solid there are two different issues. Like Bama, have watched him a half dozen times this year & he would be manhandled by beefy, strong opponents down low. Anderson, however, knows that I’m sure and yes will spot him there under right circumstance. Obviously getting Toro helps in that regard.
 
[quote="JO23" post=384260][quote="Paultzman" post=384258][quote="fuchsia" post=384257]I think of Moore as a stretch 4 with ability to help as weakside defender with his length.[/quote]
Exactly what he is.[/quote]
Yea that’s probably his most natural position, but at the end of the day any guy that is 6’10 on St. John’s is going to end up at center. I used to hear the same thing about Owens. If you look at the 3 of them I don’t know if any of them are true centers.[/quote]

I'm with you on that, I highly doubt Moore sees many minutes at the 4 spot. CMA typically plays guys that would be SF's on most teams at the 4 spot, and guys that are typically PF's and Centers he plays almost exclusively at the 5 spot.

An example would be Bobby Portis, who plays the stretch 4 spot for the Knicks, he played the vast majority of his minutes at the 5 spot for CMA at Arkansas, and at the time, CMA had 3 guys that was 6'9+ on the roster with 2 of those guys being true centers, so it wasn't because he was short on centers at the time.

Another example is his nephew Demarre Carrol who is a SF in the NBA. When he was at Missouri, he played nearly all his minutes under CMA at the 4 spot, he actually played some at the 5 in smaller lineups.

I'm sure there may be some situations where CMA goes big in situational lineups and Moore may play the 4 then, but typically his whole career CMA preferred smaller quicker lineups, and guys he has at the 4 spot are usually guys that can guard multiple positions and press full court, I seen some of Moore's games this year, I don't see a guy that can swap off on guards and be effective at doing it.
 
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It certainly seems Johnnies have sufficient depth and talent to move up in Big East standings. Middle of pack status seems quite achievable and better than that not out of the question. Of course we have to wait until rosters shake out with kids transferring in & out, eligibility issues, etc. All in all, SJU appears positioned well to finally get on path for sustainable success.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=384261][quote="JO23" post=384260][quote="Paultzman" post=384258][quote="fuchsia" post=384257]I think of Moore as a stretch 4 with ability to help as weakside defender with his length.[/quote]
Exactly what he is.[/quote]
Yea that’s probably his most natural position, but at the end of the day any guy that is 6’10 on St. John’s is going to end up at center. I used to hear the same thing about Owens. If you look at the 3 of them I don’t know if any of them are true centers.[/quote]
Ending up there and being solid there are two different issues. Like Bama, have watched him a half dozen times this year & he would be manhandled by beefy, strong opponents down low. Anderson, however, knows that I’m sure and yes will spot him there under right circumstance. Obviously getting Toro helps in that regard.[/quote]
Yea, I agree with that, I was going for him ending up at the center spot. Roberts has the same issue, which is why getting Toro was so big. Instead of having to throw a 6’6 Earlington on those bigger dudes, you got Toro who could do most of that work. I just don’t see Toro as a Big East caliber starter, I see him as a good role player. From seeing Moore do you see him as more productive player than Roberts next season?
 
[quote="JO23" post=384270][quote="Paultzman" post=384261][quote="JO23" post=384260][quote="Paultzman" post=384258][quote="fuchsia" post=384257]I think of Moore as a stretch 4 with ability to help as weakside defender with his length.[/quote]
Exactly what he is.[/quote]
Yea that’s probably his most natural position, but at the end of the day any guy that is 6’10 on St. John’s is going to end up at center. I used to hear the same thing about Owens. If you look at the 3 of them I don’t know if any of them are true centers.[/quote]
Ending up there and being solid there are two different issues. Like Bama, have watched him a half dozen times this year & he would be manhandled by beefy, strong opponents down low. Anderson, however, knows that I’m sure and yes will spot him there under right circumstance. Obviously getting Toro helps in that regard.[/quote]
Yea, I agree with that, I was going for him ending up at the center spot. Roberts has the same issue, which is why getting Toro was so big. Instead of having to throw a 6’6 Earlington on those bigger dudes, you got Toro who could do most of that work. I just don’t see Toro as a Big East caliber starter, I see him as a good role player. From seeing Moore do you see him as more productive player than Roberts next season?[/quote]

I think Moore has better shooting skills & is a very good FT maker unlike Josh. Defensively, it remains to be seen. Both run court very well & perhaps Moore will be a better finisher on break from limited sample I saw.
 
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From what I’ve seen, Moore is much more adept on offense than Roberts. Roberts is a good shotblocker and defensive rebounder. Moore seems to have legitimate range out to three and is a good FT shooter as mentioned. Very different players. It remains to be seen if Moore can add any significant weight and strength to his frame. He’s gotta be working hard in the offseason to do so. Moore isn’t built much different than Yale’s Jordan Bruner was in high school. Problem is Moore is 2 years behind adding muscle to his frame. He’s gotta work extra hard. I don’t see Moore as a center without some more weight, jt his offensive ability and length could cause problems for some teams at that spot.
 
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I'm not convinced Roberts is ready for the season after the shoulder surgery. Any help we can get under the hoop is welcome.
 
To make things worse for Roberts his injury will preclude him from lifting weights this summer. Hopefully he can gain weight and work on his core and legs.
 
I’m looking forward to watching guys progress under CMA and the staff. Who becomes this years earlington/Williams? I think Dunn has a chance to become the player that you watch and say wow he’s really turned into a stud. So exciting to have a staff where players get better
 
Also during his interview on WFAN, Anderson mentioned Roberts Williams earlington along w Champagnie as guys who he’s high on next year
 
I believe a better way to think about lineups with CMA is rotation, not 1st and 2nd teams - who's likely to start and who will most often sub in for whom. CMA game plans about how to best combat the strengths and take advantage of the weakness of opponents but then he tends to go with what's working in real time. Sometimes that's matchups; sometimes it's who has the hot hand. He doesn't really have a first and second team, per se. You could say everybody's on the first team, depending on the situation on any given night.

CMA also puts a premium on defense and knowing and executing his systems, so I expect he'll begin the season with the starters tilting toward this year's team. I'd guess the starters would be Dunn, Williams, LJ, Champ and the Duke. If Roberts is ready he might start in place of the Duke depending on whether CMA wants a truer big on the floor. Or it could be Toro depending on what CMA observes once these two bigs are in practice together.

In terms of rotation, this is what I imagine at the moment. And of course this is all imagination at this point - we're really just shooting the sh*t waiting, after tournamentis interruptis, for basketball to return. When either LJ or Greg sits I expect Cole subs in. If Dunn sits, it will be Posh. Or if LJ and Greg both sit, Dunn will likely slide to the 2 and Posh will play the point. Barring injury or significant foul trouble, I don't expect Wusu or McGriff to see that much time. Caraher made a ton of great effort/focus plays and also showed he has an excellent mid-range shooting touch late in the season and that will buy him some time, but I think a lot of it will be when CMA sees the need for that kind of gritty effort to spark the team because they've lost focus or gotten too impressed with themselves.

In the post I expect to see a lot of Penny and the Duke together because the combination is so dynamic and offers such a good combination of offense, rebounding and solid defense. Toro, if healthy, should also play a lot, especially vs teams with true bigs. Roberts minutes will depend on the progress of his shoulder, his rebounding numbers and the appearance of some effective low post offense. I expect the speed of the BE to be a challenge for Moore at the beginning but CMA will find ways to work him in as a stretch 4 shooting some threes, getting some weak side blocks and put backs as the season progresses.

So in terms of the actual flow of the games, I expect it to look like some version of that and not to be at all about who's on a first or second team. Very excited about the depth and diversity of talent on the team and about CMA's ability to mold them into a cohesive team and to make use of all that depth and diversity as it's needed.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=384379]Was Moore captured by elves?[/quote]

Yes by elves who've seen him play.
 
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