Some Assessments & Expectations
- Thread starter docbutler
- Start date
rawdognyc
Well-known member
Thanks Moose. I have the upmost respect for you and a lot of other posters and their opinions on what they saw in the Humboldt game. I also see what you're saying about the line drawn in the sand with people on each side. I guess I'm just an optimist and hope that they can put their talent together and become a team to be reckoned with.
Moose
Well-known member
I hope so too. It would be downright disgusting if these Sr's especially Dee don't get a chance to taste the NCAA Tournament. But I've too many games like Humboldt State. They have done that in games that count too many times as well and either lost or barely squeaked by.
beast of the east
Active member
There was nothing encouraging in Saturday's performance save for Obekpa looking like a 2 way player against grade B or C competition. Blocking 11 shots against scrubs means little. The ball didn't move crisply, we didn't defend well, and there wasn't anything close to a semblance of offensive schemas.
I don't care what anyone says. We could win 20 games, and even eke into the NCAAs/ This just isn't a good basketball team.
I don't care what anyone says. We could win 20 games, and even eke into the NCAAs/ This just isn't a good basketball team.
Well, for my money, the wonderful improvement made by Chris Obepka is enough to spearhead my personal interest in the current season. The "Beast" is correct that there is some caution involved here. He did perform this against a Div. II team that were considerably smaller....and yes, we probably won't see 11 blocks against Georgetown. On the positive side, someone who knows shooting, had to be working with this kid. His release is no longer a hopeful line drive in the direction of the basket. He has developed "touch"...and uses wrist in his shot. This obviously didn't happen overnight. Some serious effort was put into play here. His footwork is 100% improved. He took a pass while running full speed down the court...took a dribble...and performed a perfect layup. On another instance, he received a pass while moving right to left on the baseline. He was met by a defender...slowed...readjusted with a side step...and dropped a sweet looking layup down. On still another, he took an entry pass on the low post...then made a sweet baseline move around his man and stuck it from the other side of the rim. All three moves fell under the label of "smooth"....a word I'd gamble that none of us have ever associated with Chris Obepka before. Can we keep him in the game? That's the question. He has been in frequent foul trouble before...and that was when Lavin was playing him 15 minutes. There is no one to replace him, not to mention that we will have problems at the 2 all year long. We have no one to contend with the bevy of quality power forwards that will be coming down the pike. Still and all, we do have quality guards...and when they are right...we will be difficult to deal with. Will we see something approaching consistency from them...that is the question. The theme that started this thread remains the most important issue. Will Steve Lavin realize, that as a three quard offense, we cannot continue overextending our defensive interior. The resultant core breakdowns will require too much from Chris Obepka and put him in constant risk of foul problems... Something we simply cannot afford.....a huge huge risk when considering the limitations of our front court depth. Only time will reveal the extent of our positives as opposed to our liabilities. I'm certainly not pushing the panic button. I'm hoping to have a good time.
beast of the east
Active member
Very fair analysis. Everything about Obekpa's game looked improved, and his right side 15 footer in the first half was buttery soft, good form, and shot with confidence. One caution is that he played off his man, and just defended the middle, and won't have that luxury against talented D1 big men without getting burned (again). I'm not pressing a panic button. I wasn't too optimistic before the Thomas thing since I didn't hold him in the regard that some people here do. If CO can contribute regularly at a 10 ppg clip, and as you say, stay on the floor, we can be competitive.
Agree on the lack of sense of urgency Weatherman made. That aside, I remain concerned about our school yard offense. This has been a chronic area of deficiency. Hopefully staff can resolve that, but X&Os has never been Lav's long suit to be kind.
It is early obviously, but it is critical, by the Minny game that we run something not akin to a West Fourth Street game on a Saturday. I'll leave the poor rebounding & spotty perimeter defense for another day. This is a team that has warts, but, if well coached, may surprise. Get it done Lav!
It is early obviously, but it is critical, by the Minny game that we run something not akin to a West Fourth Street game on a Saturday. I'll leave the poor rebounding & spotty perimeter defense for another day. This is a team that has warts, but, if well coached, may surprise. Get it done Lav!
Good point. To me the NJIT game will show something. They are well coached. We will win obviously, but it should be revealing how well we do against a disciplined, savy squad. When we last played Columbia, another well coached team, I was disappointed by our lack of patience, discipline & indifference. This team must come to play every game, bear down & play smart. The latter point may be wishful thinking. We never play smart.
Agree with Moose on the line in the sand. It really started last year with the "season's over" vs. "patience" debate. I don't really understand either. The season is never over until it's over, as things can change at any moment right through March. At the same time you have to evaluate and discuss based upon the information available and the performance of the team at any given time. If we are just going to wait and see how things turn out at the end of the year, what's the point of a great site like this?
On that point, results don't matter at this stage, clearly. How the team looks however does. To play as sloppy and disjointed as we did on Saturday, whether we won by 50 or 5, was disappointing. Especially for a veteran team, sure, but more especially because this was an issue last year coming off a Euro Trip. We need change from last year, not more of the same.
In high school one of our first scrimmages was against St. Anthony's every year, who was always one of the best teams in the Tri-State if not the country. I remember even at the time, and certainly looking back on it now, being so impressed at how they were ready to - and did - play that game like it was March. Hurley treated it as such, demanding excellence, and so his team did too, mostly delivering excellence. There was no allowance for "growing pains" or "it's early" or "this game doesn't matter big picture". And it wasn't that they didn't get better from that game as the season progressed. It was that they didn't make any excuses for not being the absolute best they could possibly that day. That's what great teams do.
That is my concern with this team and program. Too many days and games the last few years where I walked away positive we weren't the best we could be at that juncture. That catches up to you and ultimately costs you wins when it does matter. So it wasn't about Saturday in isolation, it was about Saturday being another in a long list of games just like it. This needs to change, hopefully starting this Saturday.
On that point, results don't matter at this stage, clearly. How the team looks however does. To play as sloppy and disjointed as we did on Saturday, whether we won by 50 or 5, was disappointing. Especially for a veteran team, sure, but more especially because this was an issue last year coming off a Euro Trip. We need change from last year, not more of the same.
In high school one of our first scrimmages was against St. Anthony's every year, who was always one of the best teams in the Tri-State if not the country. I remember even at the time, and certainly looking back on it now, being so impressed at how they were ready to - and did - play that game like it was March. Hurley treated it as such, demanding excellence, and so his team did too, mostly delivering excellence. There was no allowance for "growing pains" or "it's early" or "this game doesn't matter big picture". And it wasn't that they didn't get better from that game as the season progressed. It was that they didn't make any excuses for not being the absolute best they could possibly that day. That's what great teams do.
That is my concern with this team and program. Too many days and games the last few years where I walked away positive we weren't the best we could be at that juncture. That catches up to you and ultimately costs you wins when it does matter. So it wasn't about Saturday in isolation, it was about Saturday being another in a long list of games just like it. This needs to change, hopefully starting this Saturday.
Didn't want to start a new thread on this................ten-coaches-on-the-hot-seat
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...asketball-preview-ten-coaches-on-the-hot-seat
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...asketball-preview-ten-coaches-on-the-hot-seat
I didn't see the game but from descriptions it sounded like many other lackluster performances by SJU against D-2 teams and mid majors that I have seen. I don't think it comes from a lack of urgency or fire. I think our guys do not have correct basketball habits burned into them sufficiently that they rely on them when they are challenged. Instead they (the guards and DOM) revert to one on one basketball where they dribble too much, pass too little, and rely on superior skill or athleticism that got them by in HS but doesn't work at this level (even against mid-majors). I lay this on the coaching staff. Knowing this tendency in their players, from day one the coaching should be about team basketball, about movement and passing and about being able to figure out how to use their particular advantages over the other team. Maybe they need Gene Hackman to force them to make a minimum number of passes every time down the floor.
Also on the coaches is their perimeter pressure defensive strategy which seems to be applied even when it makes no sense, like when a team has faster, quicker guards than ours. I think our guys have a lot of heart, but the coaches are not doing a good enough job channeling that heart into fundamentals on offense and sound strategy on defense. Urgency + athleticism + skills + sound fundamentals = WINNING BASKETBALL. Urgency + athleticism + skills + bad habits = FRUSTRATION. Both us fans and the players have experienced our share of that. I hope the staff finds the way to give this team the right tools and games strategy so that we win more and are frustrated much less.Ray Morgan
Well-known member
I didn't see the game but from descriptions it sounded like many other lackluster performances by SJU against D-2 teams and mid majors that I have seen. I don't think it comes from a lack of urgency or fire. I think our guys do not have correct basketball habits burned into them sufficiently that they rely on them when they are challenged. Instead they (the guards and DOM) revert to one on one basketball where they dribble too much, pass too little, and rely on superior skill or athleticism that got them by in HS but doesn't work at this level (even against mid-majors). I lay this on the coaching staff. Knowing this tendency in their players, from day one the coaching should be about team basketball, about movement and passing and about being able to figure out how to use their particular advantages over the other team. Maybe they need Gene Hackman to force them to make a minimum number of passes every time down the floor.
So well put. Everyone wants to blame it on the team not getting up for the early games against non major programs. It is a convenient excuse, and makes some of us feel better to believe it's lack of effort that prevents us from blowing inferior squads out. The early schedule is filled with huge blowouts by teams from major conference over the unknowns. It should happen here, too.