SJU's Home Court

beast of the east

beast of the east

Active member
After the full house victory at CA, where we enjoyed a marked home court advantage, it begs the question of whether we should forego the cache of MSG at least temporarily while we build a strong program that benefits from packed CA games where fans create a decided home court advantage. The Big East might not like it or even allow it, but St. John's is in the unenviable position that MSG games can become home games or neutral court games against teams like Villanova and even Seton Hall. Pretty sure Syracuse or Duke would not play us on campus if there is revenue sharing on home games, and that against good Johnnie teams they wold be much more likely to get tagged with a loss at CA.

If we packed CA for one or two seasons, building a bigger on campus arena would seem to be a no brainer and should be part of the thinking.

Your thoughts? There are a lot of pros and cons, but my feeling is that W's and NCAA bids will build the program faster than recruiting benefits from playing at MSG
 
Best, my friend, i disagree. I think we have enough buzz right now that MSG is going to be packed w sju fans for our games this season. remember the pitt game in '11? an amazing pro sju atmosphere (Almost full capacity). I saw a lot of red at the princeton game this year too and that was just princeton.

that being said, CA looked awesome the other night. I wouldnt mind playing the hall at CA like we did to that lunatic bobby gonzalez.
 
[quote="Storm Tracker" post=311724]Best, my friend, i disagree. I think we have enough buzz right now that MSG is going to be packed w sju fans for our games this season. remember the pitt game in '11? an amazing pro sju atmosphere (Almost full capacity). I saw a lot of red at the princeton game this year too and that was just princeton.

that being said, CA looked awesome the other night. I wouldnt mind playing the hall at CA like we did to that lunatic bobby gonzalez.[/quote]

It's a good discussion, but we didn't pack MSG until we were at the end of HArdy's incredible run, and if Pitt had been UCONN, Syracuse, or Nova, 40-60% of fans would have been theirs because the tickets would have been long gone before we got hot. Also, Princeton game was a double header and still drew only half capacity or less among the 4 teams playing, so not a very good yardstick of anything except that we don't draw well.
 
The more games we play at MSG the better in my opinion. We have to have a perennial top 25 team and we will pack MSG.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=311733]The more games we play at MSG the better in my opinion. We have to have a perennial top 25 team and we will pack MSG.[/quote]

I agree. The question though is would be get there faster by beating teams at CA now we would lose to at MSG.
 
I would disagree with that Beast. I don't think we lost too many games because of where we played. We have lost games because SJU teams weren't very good. I think we need to make sure we maintain our presence at MSG.

However, I would add that I have a bit of a love hate relationship with MSG. I understand having "other college" games held there. They have always done that. It is important for college hoops. I do object to them letting other teams being called the "home" team as they are not. Planting logos on the floor etc. Yukon, Cuse and Rutgers and others are nothing more than playing tourist in our home building. As with any business relationship respect cuts both ways. I get SJU hasn't been good in awhile. So a lot of this is on us. However, if MSG continues that path I actually might like to see more weekend games in Brooklyn or at new Nassau Coliseum. Some in the "city" may not like it but we do have a significant Alumni base east of campus.
 
Passing up a lot of money by not playing Nova and Georgetown at MSG (at least on weekends).

I am sure Big East would not allow it as well. Think it is a good debate though.
 
MSG is still an advantage in recruiting and MSG would have no trouble at all getting someone to take the SJU five or six dates who would then use that in recruiting against us.
 
From other comments I've heard I would expect to play more games there in future and more out of conference games.
 
Crawl before walking approach imo;

Next season perhaps go to fifth BE regular season game, but add two high draw out of conference games. Once on plane for continued success, perhaps add another MSG regular season game & try for two OOC games of consequence.

As an aside, I must say CA was rocking v Marquette and my section had a lot of kids who cheered their tails off. Even on school night that could continue, but unlikely for MSG net of weekend, holiday games.
 
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Keep knocking on the devils door and sooner or later someone’s gonna answer. Or in this case lock the door for good.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=311743]Crawl before walking approach imo;

Next season perhaps go to fifth BE regular season game, but add two high draw out of conference games. Once on plane for continued success, perhaps add another MSG regular season game & try for two OOC games of consequence.

As an aside, I must say CA was rocking v Marquette and my section had a lot of kids who cheered their tails off. Even on school night that could continue, but unlikely for MSG net of weekend, holiday games.

Agree, i would like to see a solid OOC game at CA.
 
Sorry Beast, I like some of your posts but this is a HORRIBLE idea. Probably the worst thing I've read on this site.

Seriously, lock the thread immediately and move it to the Rookie forum.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=311721]After the full house victory at CA, where we enjoyed a marked home court advantage, it begs the question of whether we should forego the cache of MSG at least temporarily while we build a strong program that benefits from packed CA games where fans create a decided home court advantage. The Big East might not like it or even allow it, but St. John's is in the unenviable position that MSG games can become home games or neutral court games against teams like Villanova and even Seton Hall. Pretty sure Syracuse or Duke would not play us on campus if there is revenue sharing on home games, and that against good Johnnie teams they wold be much more likely to get tagged with a loss at CA.

If we packed CA for one or two seasons, building a bigger on campus arena would seem to be a no brainer and should be part of the thinking.

Your thoughts? There are a lot of pros and cons, but my feeling is that W's and NCAA bids will build the program faster than recruiting benefits from playing at MSG[/quote]

Hard no from me. Fine with a Butler or Marquette game at CA, and obviously DePaul/SHU. But the Garden is the main attraction. And it will be rocking this year. We all have to do our part to get to the MSG games and also bring friends/family.
 
Any talk of leaving MSG is misplaced. That is our biggest recruiting advantage. CA is good for the occasional quality opponent but it's a glorified high school gym.

Fan ratio on our side or not, our team always play up in the Garden.

Don't forget, we've had some serious let-downs in CA over the years.
 
While I'm not saying we should leave MSG, I actually agree with Beast's premise that CA when packed and raucous is a tough place to play. Personally, I always feel we have a great shot to win there against good teams.
 
[quote="Adam" post=311746]Sorry Beast, I like some of your posts but this is a HORRIBLE idea. Probably the worst thing I've read on this site.

Seriously, lock the thread immediately and move it to the Rookie forum.[/quote]

Guess you haven't read a thread about going back to Redmen.

Or playing a local tournament each Xmas.

Or the questions about what channel a game is on

:)
 
[quote="Moose" post=311762][quote="Adam" post=311746]Sorry Beast, I like some of your posts but this is a HORRIBLE idea. Probably the worst thing I've read on this site.

Seriously, lock the thread immediately and move it to the Rookie forum.[/quote]

Guess you haven't read a thread about going back to Redmen.

Or playing a local tournament each Xmas.

Or the questions about what channel a game is on

:)[/quote]

Haha, I'd still say this is a worse idea.

Now for my rant: Let's not forget the starting point of this turnaround, a massive W over #4 Duke. Does Duke play us at CA? Hell no. Mullin's first ever big W was vs Syracuse at the Garden. In both those games, we were massive underdogs. Most good memories for SJU basketball happened at MSG. Leaving MSG would have plenty of other consequences. Recruiting would plummet, as most of them mention MSG as a big reason for coming here.

As someone not from NY originally (NC), the #1 thing most of my friends and family are impressed with St. John's basketball is that they play at the Garden. That's even ahead of what conference they're in. Seriously, whenever I mention SJU to someone they always ask about MSG. That's unprompted by myself. Why do they know that? Because of teams we've played/beaten there like Duke, Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, etc.

Just because we beat Marquette at CA doesn't mean we should stop playing at the Garden. I'm not convinced CA provides that much of a home court advantage, but even if it did, it would probably be the worst decision we've ever made to leave MSG. Say goodbye to any high profile OOC games. Say goodbye to $$$. Say goodbye to various recruits.

Also, this is year 4 of Mullin. We are supposed to be peaking now (which we appear to be), not taking baby steps with the anticipation of being better 3-4 years from now.
 
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Hey, I can get to Carnesecca in fifteen minutes and also not deal with the LIRR, but MSG is worth every bit of the extra commute. Plus a 6:30 game is not a disaster for the majority of NYC area fans who work in Manhattan. A balance of on campus and MSG games has always been the correct formula and the program needs to schedule one or two more MSG quality games a year.
First move - never play at Barclays again - it is a complete waste to play there. It’s an awful arena with no atmosphere and no one really wants to go there. You can toss the “new” (if a paint job makes something new) Coliseum into the always avoid mix too, and thankfully the program has done just that.
 
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[quote="IDRAFT" post=311777]Hey, I can get to Carnesecca in fifteen minutes and also not deal with the LIRR, but MSG is worth every bit of the extra commute. Plus a 6:30 game is not a disaster for the majority of NYC area fans who work in Manhattan. A balance of on campus and MSG games has always been the correct formula and the program needs to schedule one or two more MSG quality games a year.
First move - never play at Barclays again - it is a complete waste to play there. It’s an awful arena with no atmosphere and no one really wants to go there. You can toss the “new” (if a paint job makes something new) Coliseum into the always avoid mix too, and thankfully the program has done just that.[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I think the advantage of playing at Barclays is that it counts as neutral games. For example, this year our two Tournament games there were neutral. I'm pretty sure the Princeton game, despite technically being a Tournament game, is home since we play a certain amount of games at MSG.

If that's the case, I'd say continue to play there. But if they count as home games, then absolutely don't.
 
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