SJU Fan Tradition Continues-Blame The Coach

[Ray Morgan]

So we are heading in the same direction again. Ever since Looie left, we apparently have had a string of amateurs and stumblebums coaching the team. It's been a merry go round of underachievers or "in over their headers". Mahoney-not up to the task-Jarvis, Norm and now Lavin. For recruiting failures, coaches need to be held accountable. But when Jarvis had 3 NBA first round picks, we are a bucket from the final four. It's the players-it always is.

If Lavin got hit in the head by a boomerang, he would still know more about basketball and coaching than every one on this site combined, times one thousand. And he is no coaching genius. It's a players game. Ask Bobby Knight, ask Looie. Coaching may be 10-15%. This year, we have depth and experience. A lot of top 100 and even top 50 recruits. No excuses. If the team doesn't start playing what looks like organized basketball, then it's the players. Lavin was hedging his bets early on, saying the team will take time to gel. He has been working with them for years. He knows what they are, and aren't. It just may be that he recruited mega athletes that came with awful habits that are hard to break. Let's add that they are apparently slow learners. Maybe they don't guard the three well in any defense we use because they don't follow what they are taught. Maybe they don't rebound very well because they don't box out. A lot of poor fundamentals here. If we see it, so does the staff. And they work on it every practice. And still no one gets it. Wagner should be no contest, as should most of the schedule until Big East play. If we don't blow out a lot of teams, maybe we need to look at the player's deficiencies, and inability or unwillingness to buy in to playing defense and playing unselfish, sound basketball. It looks like 2 guys, Jordan and Sanchez, understand the game. D Lo does when he's in the mood. Lavin probably figured it will take until February for Jordan to feel confident and comfortable. Without him and Sanchez on the floor for 30 minutes each, it will be the same old, same old. A lot of blocked shots and youtube worthy dunks, coupled with a lot of bricklaying and defensive lapses. It's up to the players to figure out how much they want it.

 

[SJU61982]

So we are heading in the same direction again. Ever since Looie left, we apparently have had a string of amateurs and stumblebums coaching the team. It's been a merry go round of underachievers or "in over their headers". Mahoney-not up to the task-Jarvis, Norm and now Lavin. For recruiting failures, coaches need to be held accountable. But when Jarvis had 3 NBA first round picks, we are a bucket from the final four. It's the players-it always is.

If Lavin got hit in the head by a boomerang, he would still know more about basketball and coaching than every one on this site combined, times one thousand. And he is no coaching genius. It's a players game. Ask Bobby Knight, ask Looie. Coaching may be 10-15%. This year, we have depth and experience. A lot of top 100 and even top 50 recruits. No excuses. If the team doesn't start playing what looks like organized basketball, then it's the players. Lavin was hedging his bets early on, saying the team will take time to gel. He has been working with them for years. He knows what they are, and aren't. It just may be that he recruited mega athletes that came with awful habits that are hard to break. Let's add that they are apparently slow learners. Maybe they don't guard the three well in any defense we use because they don't follow what they are taught. Maybe they don't rebound very well because they don't box out. A lot of poor fundamentals here. If we see it, so does the staff. And they work on it every practice. And still no one gets it. Wagner should be no contest, as should most of the schedule until Big East play. If we don't blow out a lot of teams, maybe we need to look at the player's deficiencies, and inability or unwillingness to buy in to playing defense and playing unselfish, sound basketball. It looks like 2 guys, Jordan and Sanchez, understand the game. D Lo does when he's in the mood. Lavin probably figured it will take until February for Jordan to feel confident and comfortable. Without him and Sanchez on the floor for 30 minutes each, it will be the same old, same old. A lot of blocked shots and youtube worthy dunks, coupled with a lot of bricklaying and defensive lapses. It's up to the players to figure out how much they want it.

Let me say this. When Lavin was hired, he was the most qualified reasonable candidate avaliable. If he is fired/leaves (which I'm not pushing for), I'd be very scared about the direction of this program going forward. Other then Dan Hurley or Tim Cluess, I don't know of any good, REASONABLE, candidates out there.

 

[TobinGrad]

So we are heading in the same direction again. Ever since Looie left, we apparently have had a string of amateurs and stumblebums coaching the team. It's been a merry go round of underachievers or "in over their headers". Mahoney-not up to the task-Jarvis, Norm and now Lavin. For recruiting failures, coaches need to be held accountable. But when Jarvis had 3 NBA first round picks, we are a bucket from the final four. It's the players-it always is.

If Lavin got hit in the head by a boomerang, he would still know more about basketball and coaching than every one on this site combined, times one thousand. And he is no coaching genius. It's a players game. Ask Bobby Knight, ask Looie. Coaching may be 10-15%. This year, we have depth and experience. A lot of top 100 and even top 50 recruits. No excuses. If the team doesn't start playing what looks like organized basketball, then it's the players. Lavin was hedging his bets early on, saying the team will take time to gel. He has been working with them for years. He knows what they are, and aren't. It just may be that he recruited mega athletes that came with awful habits that are hard to break. Let's add that they are apparently slow learners. Maybe they don't guard the three well in any defense we use because they don't follow what they are taught. Maybe they don't rebound very well because they don't box out. A lot of poor fundamentals here. If we see it, so does the staff. And they work on it every practice. And still no one gets it. Wagner should be no contest, as should most of the schedule until Big East play. If we don't blow out a lot of teams, maybe we need to look at the player's deficiencies, and inability or unwillingness to buy in to playing defense and playing unselfish, sound basketball. It looks like 2 guys, Jordan and Sanchez, understand the game. D Lo does when he's in the mood. Lavin probably figured it will take until February for Jordan to feel confident and comfortable. Without him and Sanchez on the floor for 30 minutes each, it will be the same old, same old. A lot of blocked shots and youtube worthy dunks, coupled with a lot of bricklaying and defensive lapses. It's up to the players to figure out how much they want it.

This is simply incorrect. It IS the coaching. There are far superior teams out there with players inferior to SJU (Wisconson). The reason is the coach. Coaching matters, far more than you understand. This same group of players under a different coach (Pitino, Izzo..) and they are top 15 caliber elite-8 bound.

 

[otis]

.....Other then Dan Hurley or Tim Cluess, I don't know of any good, REASONABLE, candidates out there.

1. I am unaware that anyone is calling for Lavin's termination.

2. I hope Lavin is the StJ's coach for many years to come. IMO he give StJ's visibility. That being said this season will be telling regarding Lavin's coaching abilities.

3. Lavin has proven the posters on this site to be wrong who formerly claimed that only a "New Yorker" (whatever that term means) can be successful as StJ's coach. It is a big world and there are many experienced coaches that could be successful at StJ's.

 

[SJU61982]

.....Other then Dan Hurley or Tim Cluess, I don't know of any good, REASONABLE, candidates out there.

1. I am unaware that anyone is calling for Lavin's termination.

2. I hope Lavin is the StJ's coach for many years to come. IMO he give StJ's visibility. That being said this season will be telling regarding Lavin's coaching abilities.

3. Lavin has proven the posters on this site to be wrong who formerly claimed that only a "New Yorker" (whatever that term means) can be successful as StJ's coach. It is a big world and there are many experienced coaches that could be successful at StJ's.

If you had copied my whole quote otis, you'd see that I said I was not calling for Lavin's termination. Quite the contrary, actually (granted, I probably should not have thrown names out there like that).

 

[beast of the east]

.....Other then Dan Hurley or Tim Cluess, I don't know of any good, REASONABLE, candidates out there.

1. I am unaware that anyone is calling for Lavin's termination.

2. I hope Lavin is the StJ's coach for many years to come. IMO he give StJ's visibility. That being said this season will be telling regarding Lavin's coaching abilities.

3. Lavin has proven the posters on this site to be wrong who formerly claimed that only a "New Yorker" (whatever that term means) can be successful as StJ's coach. It is a big world and there are many experienced coaches that could be successful at StJ's.

Turning around a program that was in the dumper for a long time, a program where recruits were 8 years old the last time we were good, and much longer than that for consistently NCAA bound, is an ENORMOUS task that most good coaches wouldn't be up to. For now, we should be happy, and know our star is pointed in the right direction.

 

[mullin20]

So we are heading in the same direction again. Ever since Looie left, we apparently have had a string of amateurs and stumblebums coaching the team. It's been a merry go round of underachievers or "in over their headers". Mahoney-not up to the task-Jarvis, Norm and now Lavin. For recruiting failures, coaches need to be held accountable. But when Jarvis had 3 NBA first round picks, we are a bucket from the final four. It's the players-it always is.

If Lavin got hit in the head by a boomerang, he would still know more about basketball and coaching than every one on this site combined, times one thousand. And he is no coaching genius. It's a players game. Ask Bobby Knight, ask Looie. Coaching may be 10-15%. This year, we have depth and experience. A lot of top 100 and even top 50 recruits. No excuses. If the team doesn't start playing what looks like organized basketball, then it's the players. Lavin was hedging his bets early on, saying the team will take time to gel. He has been working with them for years. He knows what they are, and aren't. It just may be that he recruited mega athletes that came with awful habits that are hard to break. Let's add that they are apparently slow learners. Maybe they don't guard the three well in any defense we use because they don't follow what they are taught. Maybe they don't rebound very well because they don't box out. A lot of poor fundamentals here. If we see it, so does the staff. And they work on it every practice. And still no one gets it. Wagner should be no contest, as should most of the schedule until Big East play. If we don't blow out a lot of teams, maybe we need to look at the player's deficiencies, and inability or unwillingness to buy in to playing defense and playing unselfish, sound basketball. It looks like 2 guys, Jordan and Sanchez, understand the game. D Lo does when he's in the mood. Lavin probably figured it will take until February for Jordan to feel confident and comfortable. Without him and Sanchez on the floor for 30 minutes each, it will be the same old, same old. A lot of blocked shots and youtube worthy dunks, coupled with a lot of bricklaying and defensive lapses. It's up to the players to figure out how much they want it.

This is simply incorrect. It IS the coaching. There are far superior teams out there with players inferior to SJU (Wisconson). The reason is the coach. Coaching matters, far more than you understand. This same group of players under a different coach (Pitino, Izzo..) and they are top 15 caliber elite-8 bound.

This is strictly your opinion. Was Calipari's team more talented than ours last season? He got bounced in round one of the NIT...

The correct answer is that it is a combination of coaching and players being disciplined and buying in.. Both need vast improvement coming into this season. Hopefully it starts tomorrow evening.

 

[Ray Morgan]

So we are heading in the same direction again. Ever since Looie left, we apparently have had a string of amateurs and stumblebums coaching the team. It's been a merry go round of underachievers or "in over their headers". Mahoney-not up to the task-Jarvis, Norm and now Lavin. For recruiting failures, coaches need to be held accountable. But when Jarvis had 3 NBA first round picks, we are a bucket from the final four. It's the players-it always is.

If Lavin got hit in the head by a boomerang, he would still know more about basketball and coaching than every one on this site combined, times one thousand. And he is no coaching genius. It's a players game. Ask Bobby Knight, ask Looie. Coaching may be 10-15%. This year, we have depth and experience. A lot of top 100 and even top 50 recruits. No excuses. If the team doesn't start playing what looks like organized basketball, then it's the players. Lavin was hedging his bets early on, saying the team will take time to gel. He has been working with them for years. He knows what they are, and aren't. It just may be that he recruited mega athletes that came with awful habits that are hard to break. Let's add that they are apparently slow learners. Maybe they don't guard the three well in any defense we use because they don't follow what they are taught. Maybe they don't rebound very well because they don't box out. A lot of poor fundamentals here. If we see it, so does the staff. And they work on it every practice. And still no one gets it. Wagner should be no contest, as should most of the schedule until Big East play. If we don't blow out a lot of teams, maybe we need to look at the player's deficiencies, and inability or unwillingness to buy in to playing defense and playing unselfish, sound basketball. It looks like 2 guys, Jordan and Sanchez, understand the game. D Lo does when he's in the mood. Lavin probably figured it will take until February for Jordan to feel confident and comfortable. Without him and Sanchez on the floor for 30 minutes each, it will be the same old, same old. A lot of blocked shots and youtube worthy dunks, coupled with a lot of bricklaying and defensive lapses. It's up to the players to figure out how much they want it.

This is simply incorrect. It IS the coaching. There are far superior teams out there with players inferior to SJU (Wisconson). The reason is the coach. Coaching matters, far more than you understand. This same group of players under a different coach (Pitino, Izzo..) and they are top 15 caliber elite-8 bound.

What makes you think Wisconsin's players are inferior to SJU's? It's not a high jumping contest, it's basketball. They can shoot better, pass better, and defend better. Their fundamentals were superior. The score tells the story. Looie was a genius when he had 3 first round draft picks playing together. Not so much otherwise. Jarvis was the talk of the town with a great point guard in Eric, and talented, smart players in Ron and Bootsy. With lesser players, a pariah. There are a ton of great athletes in division 1. The great programs get the athletes that also can play the game. Wisconsin gets average athletes that are very coachable because they play for their team, not for the NBA scouts. Don't knock the players that can't jump through the gym and win dunk contests. The game is about more than that.

 

[Ray Morgan]

.....Other then Dan Hurley or Tim Cluess, I don't know of any good, REASONABLE, candidates out there.

1. I am unaware that anyone is calling for Lavin's termination.

2. I hope Lavin is the StJ's coach for many years to come. IMO he give StJ's visibility. That being said this season will be telling regarding Lavin's coaching abilities.

3. Lavin has proven the posters on this site to be wrong who formerly claimed that only a "New Yorker" (whatever that term means) can be successful as StJ's coach. It is a big world and there are many experienced coaches that could be successful at StJ's.

Turning around a program that was in the dumper for a long time, a program where recruits were 8 years old the last time we were good, and much longer than that for consistently NCAA bound, is an ENORMOUS task that most good coaches wouldn't be up to. For now, we should be happy, and know our star is pointed in the right direction.

Absolutely. Lavin got us back on the map. I think we will be fine because we have Jordan. If he stays, we should be OK next year. If not, we may be rebuilding all over again.

 

[djramps]

But when Jarvis had 3 NBA first round picks, we are a bucket from the final four. It's the players-it always is.

Jarvis did not recruit the three first round players they were Fraschilla's recruits. Had Fraschilla wanted to stay and did not pull what he did. The program would be on auto-pilot right now. Things were moving in the right direction when he was hired and he was bringing the program back after a bad hire.

 

[TobinGrad]

So we are heading in the same direction again. Ever since Looie left, we apparently have had a string of amateurs and stumblebums coaching the team. It's been a merry go round of underachievers or "in over their headers". Mahoney-not up to the task-Jarvis, Norm and now Lavin. For recruiting failures, coaches need to be held accountable. But when Jarvis had 3 NBA first round picks, we are a bucket from the final four. It's the players-it always is.

If Lavin got hit in the head by a boomerang, he would still know more about basketball and coaching than every one on this site combined, times one thousand. And he is no coaching genius. It's a players game. Ask Bobby Knight, ask Looie. Coaching may be 10-15%. This year, we have depth and experience. A lot of top 100 and even top 50 recruits. No excuses. If the team doesn't start playing what looks like organized basketball, then it's the players. Lavin was hedging his bets early on, saying the team will take time to gel. He has been working with them for years. He knows what they are, and aren't. It just may be that he recruited mega athletes that came with awful habits that are hard to break. Let's add that they are apparently slow learners. Maybe they don't guard the three well in any defense we use because they don't follow what they are taught. Maybe they don't rebound very well because they don't box out. A lot of poor fundamentals here. If we see it, so does the staff. And they work on it every practice. And still no one gets it. Wagner should be no contest, as should most of the schedule until Big East play. If we don't blow out a lot of teams, maybe we need to look at the player's deficiencies, and inability or unwillingness to buy in to playing defense and playing unselfish, sound basketball. It looks like 2 guys, Jordan and Sanchez, understand the game. D Lo does when he's in the mood. Lavin probably figured it will take until February for Jordan to feel confident and comfortable. Without him and Sanchez on the floor for 30 minutes each, it will be the same old, same old. A lot of blocked shots and youtube worthy dunks, coupled with a lot of bricklaying and defensive lapses. It's up to the players to figure out how much they want it.

This is simply incorrect. It IS the coaching. There are far superior teams out there with players inferior to SJU (Wisconson). The reason is the coach. Coaching matters, far more than you understand. This same group of players under a different coach (Pitino, Izzo..) and they are top 15 caliber elite-8 bound.

What makes you think Wisconsin's players are inferior to SJU's? It's not a high jumping contest, it's basketball. They can shoot better, pass better, and defend better. Their fundamentals were superior. The score tells the story. Looie was a genius when he had 3 first round draft picks playing together. Not so much otherwise. Jarvis was the talk of the town with a great point guard in Eric, and talented, smart players in Ron and Bootsy. With lesser players, a pariah. There are a ton of great athletes in division 1. The great programs get the athletes that also can play the game. Wisconsin gets average athletes that are very coachable because they play for their team, not for the NBA scouts. Don't knock the players that can't jump through the gym and win dunk contests. The game is about more than that.

Youre right, its not a high jumping contest, its a coaching contest. If Lavin had Kentucky or Dukes current squad, they would NOT be the national championship contenders that they are under their current coaches. If Izzo, PItino or K had this SJU team, they would be top 15. That is the truth.
Jim Whitesell was brought in and made Associate HC for a reason, and that is Lavins experience has taught him that coaching matters and landing highly ranked recruits is not enough. If this team is going to have the season everyone here has anticipated for months, it will be because Whitesells influence takes hold. If over the next 5 "games" against boring barely mid-major caliber "competition" you start to see Whitesells offensive structure and execution become visible, then be optimistic. If not get ready for another season of dissapointment.

 

[MJDinkins]

If Lavin had Kentucky or Dukes current squad, they would NOT be the national championship contenders that they are under their current coaches. If Izzo, PItino or K had this SJU team, they would be top 15. That is the truth.

"Opinion...." A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

So, when did your opinion become the "truth?"

Jim Whitesell was brought in and made Associate HC for a reason, and that is Lavins experience has taught him that coaching matters and landing highly ranked recruits is not enough. If this team is going to have the season everyone here has anticipated for months, it will be because Whitesells influence takes hold. If over the next 5 "games" against boring barely mid-major caliber "competition" you start to see Whitesells offensive structure and execution become visible, then be optimistic. If not get ready for another season of dissapointment.

The same as my initial quote above.

 

[NYCRedmen]

In 7 seasons Lavin compiled a record of 144-78 at UCLA, 6 twenty plus win seasons, 6 straight NCAA appearances, 4 Sweet Sixteens and 1 Elite 8. Most schools would kill to be able to hire someone with that track record. He has only coached 2 full seasons at St. John's and both resulted in post season play (I don't count his 2nd year where he only coached 4 games).

 

[SJUalum98]

Why are we having this discussion 1 game into the season?

 

[Knight2]

Gee, from the tone I was expecting someone to call for setting Alumni Hall on fire. One Game, geez.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Gee, from the tone I was expecting someone to call for setting Alumni Hall on fire. One Game, geez.

Better see what happens if they lose to Wagner. Or even if it's a close game.

 

[bamafan]

Hey Morgan-if it is the players than it is still the coach! He brought them in he is responsible for the program. These statements are in response to your premise only. I am not giving up on the season or blaming anyone yet.

 

[beast of the east]

I think this stuff is getting tiresome. If you think the program should be further along or with a different coach, then cancel your season tickets, don't watch the games and wait until we either meet your standard of excellence or the coach is fired/replaced or both. I did this myself for the last season of Norm. The school missed me so much, I believe they fired Norm to get me back. Maybe they will do the same for you.

Yes, I'm kidding. At least about part of it.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Hey Morgan-if it is the players than it is still the coach! He brought them in he is responsible for the program. These statements are in response to your premise only. I am not giving up on the season or blaming anyone yet.

There are a lot of factors at play, including the decimation of the program prior to Norm's arrival, and its clean but weak record when Norm was here. The program had no relevance, as we fought over recruits with the Bucknells of the world. Now the program fights over recruits, and sometimes wins, over the big boys. Maybe we should be amazed that Lavin got the high end recruits that he did. It's just that we have too many players with similar skill sets, and similar weaknesses. The bottom line is luring future pros to SJU, given all that transpired, isn't easy. Lavin is doing that. We just need a little of what Looie specialized in; savvy, heady players that could stay in the game against superior, more highly regarded, talent. A lot of the "look" of the offense, or lack thereof, comes from no point guard. Until now. If Jordan performs as many expect he will, the season will get brighter in a hurry. If Branch is playing 20 minutes a game, don't expect miracles.

 

[beast of the east]

Hey Morgan-if it is the players than it is still the coach! He brought them in he is responsible for the program. These statements are in response to your premise only. I am not giving up on the season or blaming anyone yet.

There are a lot of factors at play, including the decimation of the program prior to Norm's arrival, and its clean but weak record when Norm was here. The program had no relevance, as we fought over recruits with the Bucknells of the world. Now the program fights over recruits, and sometimes wins, over the big boys. Maybe we should be amazed that Lavin got the high end recruits that he did. It's just that we have too many players with similar skill sets, and similar weaknesses. The bottom line is luring future pros to SJU, given all that transpired, isn't easy. Lavin is doing that. We just need a little of what Looie specialized in; savvy, heady players that could stay in the game against superior, more highly regarded, talent. A lot of the "look" of the offense, or lack thereof, comes from no point guard. Until now. If Jordan performs as many expect he will, the season will get brighter in a hurry. If Branch is playing 20 minutes a game, don't expect miracles.

I would recruit the best single dimensional players available. This way the rebounders wouldn't get in the way of the dribblers, and the outside shooters wouldn't clog the lanes for the penetrators. There will be dunkers who only dunk, and shot blockers 7 feet tall with 50 inch verticals. A while back the best free throw shooter in the world was about 80 - we'll get him also. Players will be so different that we won't need numbers anymore. They will all have different skill sets, we will start a new trend, and win championship after championship.