Shame on season ticket holders!

The St.J's season ticket base was screwed by Moanasck with a pts system unfair to longtime tic holders.
His BIG mistake was demanding a $1000 more in red&white club to keep your Garden seats in the 70s with the Loser Norm coaching the team into the abyss so Most people cancelled.

The smart move would have been to grandfather everyone under Norm & increase after hiring Lavin a proven winner.



I
 
I assume that the Garden has the right to sell any unsold seats to whomever comes with the cash. Most of the SU attendees at yesterday's game were sitting in seats that are normally empty. Yes there were also many SJU season seats sold to SU fans & I doubt there is any legal way to stop either now or in the future.
Don't kid yourself, the Garden LOVED yesterday's sell out - food and beverage sales alone had to be in the millions of dollars. These events at public arenas are all about the money. I had 4 SU alumni sitting next to me in Sec.108 that are normally occupied by SJ ticket holders. I asked them how hard was it to get those tickets & they replied no problem as long as you had the cash. Since there are many "well healed" SU grads living in the NYC area there is no doubt they would pay plenty to see their #2 ranked Orange play at the Garden.......cheaper and better seats than going to a game the Dome. The only way to stop this is to put a top 5 ranked SJ team on the floor at the Garden which sadly may be many, many years away - if ever...
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It's been said here that MSG gets 100% of the concessions, but how do you figure they made "millions of dollars" form concessions? With around 20,000 in attendance each fan would have to average $50 in food and beverage to get to $1 million. It was a good day for the Garden.

We could also argue that it would have been even worse to see just 6,000 in attendance when the #2 team in the country played us if all Syracuse fans stayed home.
 
 that figure is very close to what they make when you take in all the high end food and beverage going to all the sold out corporate boxes filled with fans yesterday. And that is not including the profit of the club box and 400 level suites that were sold yesterday compared to the few on our regular games.
 
The solution is very simple. The only way to prevent season ticket holders from selling their seats for a premium online is to give them a product that in their eyes is worth more than the market value of their ticket. Right now we are a long way from that. The spring signing period could change everything though.
 
 Agree with you all. It sucks when somebody sells their tickets.However,they still have the right to.The student must be forbidden for every from selling when they are obtaining them from the gennerosity of the school.THEY are ruining the program for the rest of us,especially the other students who honor and respect their priveledge. The school has to put restrictions and penalties on any student caught selling his ticket.
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Ok I'm tired of being PC and being nice. GIve me a f***cking break with the "generosity of the school" crap. And you can't be serious that it's the students who are ruining the program for "the rest of you." Who the f*** are "the rest of you?" There were probably more students at the game than regular fans and if it wasn't for us there wouldn't have been any semblance of noise for St. John's. How can you seriously sit here and say that fans can sell their tickets as they please but the students are ruining the program for doing it. You people who sit here and do nothing but chastise the students need to get real. THE STUDENTS SUCK, AND THE REGULAR FANS SUCK EVEN MORE.

This obviously doesn't apply to the guys here who attend every game, yell and scream, and are as angry and embarrassed about this situation as I am. Just like it doesn't apply to the core students who attend every game and try to make it some sort of a home court advantage. But the few people on here who continue to blame only the students, quite frankly, need to shut up already.

And one other thing. Don't think I'm condoning students reselling their tickets. I've posted on here before how it makes me absolutely sick. I've gone to Monasch about it, and I've gone to the ticket office about it. Nothing makes me angrier than seeing a student with zero pride in their school and only looking to grab some extra dollars to pay for their alcohol. But to sit here and say it's fine for regular fans to do it but the STUDENTS are ruining the program? Get the f*** outta here.
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I agree with you...no student should be allowed to sell a ticket but it was totally apparent that our season ticket holders dumped their tix yesterday and I, for ne, think it sucks...I could have gotten $200-$300 for my unused ticket but refused to sell it to a fan of the Orange...

Their fans come into our house with that smug attitude and it irks the $hit out of me.

While the sale of student freebies may be the most egregious, I think it swas the rank and file season ticket holder that sold the program out yesterday.
 
I was thinking the same thing yesterday as many of you have posted. I've long since accepted that when we play Syracuse, UConn or Georgetown on the weekend that 75% of the individual game tickets sold would be by fans of the opposing team. This will be the case until we are able to string together consecutive 25+ win seasons with a good showing in the NCAA tournament. However, Oramge fans were not only in sections typically occupied by season ticket holders, but also premium sections where a large Red-White Club donation would be required. These are people who have made a significant financial committment to this team.

Look, we all knew this was going to be a "growing pains" season after the three recruits were declared ineligible. And, Syracuse is perhaps the worst matchup of the year in terms of height, depth, althleticism and playing style. If the possibility of a beatdown makes you decide to not witness it. Fine. That's your perogative. However, selling your tickets to (overwhelmingly likely) Orange fans hurts your team and your program that you profess to love so much by buying season tickets and making a sizable donation to Red-White. If I told you that this team started strong, played nearly even through 1/2 of the first half and had it at single digits late in the half before allowing Syracuse to make their run in a game played in the Carrier Dome...most of you would have found some positive in that scenario. Well, by selling your tickets so that a sold out MSG is 75%+ Orange, you created that same scenario in New York City. This is not about one game, or the $$$ for a few tickets. It's about 5 talented freshman who bust their a$$ every second they are on the court not having to witness SU have a party in what is suppossed to be our home building. Its about not having recruits witness a road enviornment for a home game. The Garden is suppossed to be a big recruiting tool for STJ to use. Well, guess what, that strategy doesn't work when it winds up being Carrier Dome south. So, everyone who is a season ticket holder that sold their tickets to an unknown source for Saturday's game needs to look in the mirror and decide whether a little money is worth damaging the perception of the program you love. (I am sure there are rare exceptions where tickets needed to be sold...but that isn't the case for everyone.

This isn't Norm Roberts team. This isn't an era where we have no right to be proud of the product on the court or optomistic about the future. This team is talented. Incomplete, but talented. The future is bright. Please support your team. They deserve it.
 
 
My guess is that for the very best seats in the house that are owned by big donors were given to clients who are SU fans. Many of those donors are wall steet execs, and their SJU season tix aren't purchased by all because they are diehards but because they are writeoffs to be given to clients. That would explain in part all the empty CA seats in the seatback section for some pretty good games. 
 
 I think one thing that is demoralizing for most of us after Saturday's game vs. Syracuse, is that, atleast for now, Syracuse can lay claim to the fact that not only are they New York's team, but if their sellout (it was very clearly not our sellout) was any indication of their ability to fill the Garden, they could also say they are New York City's team as well.

When St. John's surprised us last year with a season worthy of an NCAA bid, a brief ranking in the top 10, and a top recruiting class, they saw fit to raise prices 20%. Even though there has been a buzz aruond the team from the most loyal fans, the larger pool that we think are dormant fans have stayed away.

St. John's administration killed the golden goose of fandom, both with bad coaching appointments and horrible decisions regarding seating. Although they have been chronicled, they are worth repeating, in no particular order:

1) First in our heyday, we were selling out Alumni Hall with season tix, making it impossible for new alumni and students to latch onto the team, simply because Alumni Hall was always sold out or nearly sold out. I suspect we lost a generation of potential new fans this way. In my time I saw little boys sitting on their mom or dad's lap at games ultimately become SJU students and regulars in their family seats. All in all the season ticket base was very stable, but got older and quieter

2) The first bad move was the creation of a student section at Alumni Hall. This was done because we didn't have one, but in doing so, they moved the entire bleacher section facing the benches to the upper level. That move resulted in hundreds of cancellations, and since the teams stunk, the "student section" was pretty empty and appeared not to even have students in them.

3) The reseating based on the points system. On the side of the court behind the benches, many season ticket holders were relocated to make way for large dollar alumni contributors, most of whom who did not have tickets before. I was originally in a group of almost 50 season ticket holders, and this move caused 80% of those who remained to cancel. None of those that I speak to would come back under any circumstance.

4) Ticket price increases. To get a very good seat at MSG now costs $75 a ticket, which exceeds the price of a very good seat at many professional sports venues around the country. I was in Kansas City last year and a seat right behind home plate was around $40. To bring a family of four to a St. John's game and sit in very good seats now costs $300 before you pay for the LIRR ($14.50 off peak RT), and concessions (hot dog, fries, and coke around $15). total cost of the day = over $400. Simply speaking they have priced many fans out of the season ticket market, even with reduced prices upstairs. Honeslty, who wants to sit in the 400s for a basketball game unless the team is a great team.

In short, we have a former fan base that likely will not come back under any circumstance - many disgruntled ex-season ticket holders who were reseated, and others for whom a ticket got too expensive. Despite what many here think, at current prices, it will be years before SJU sells 6,000 season tickets unless it finds a new, wealthier fan base. Until then the pathetic showing at Garden games will continue until we are ranked. At that point (when we are ranked) we will still cede 40-60% of MSG to opposing teams, since those games will be up for grabs to non-season ticket holders.
 
 Your points are well made. The people in decision-making positions at STJ have made so many errors over the years. It took exceptional incompetence to screw up having the NYC franchise in the Big East. However, the emergence of some very generous alums and the arrival of the new coaching staff seemed to finally right the ship. Add to this, the inspired run by last year's team and you have to wonder why there isn't more support.
I believe one point not mentioned in other threads is that the people who visit this sight are not representative of the alums or current students at STJ. Whether it's from being on a team, in a frat, playing intramurals, or being involved in the newspaper, yearbook, etc., we connected with the school on some level. The majority of the students commuted in, went to class and went home. At the end of four years, they left, got a job and had little to do with the school, again. Maybe they attended STJ only because they did not gain acceptance to their preferred choices, or they were unimpressed by their experience while students. I don't think this is the case with many of the other Catholic/Private colleges, and that may be why we are outdrawn at our home games.
 
There is a simple answer to your question.


WIN.

win and our fan base comes back. To the season ticket holders that say they would never come back under any circumstances I say it's easy to say when your team has stunk as long as we have. The true test of that statement is when your team is ranked in the top 25 and returns to national power on a regular basis. Then we'll see who stays away because they feel they were jilted.

Comparing ticket prices in Kansas City to NYC is unfair two vastly different markets with vastly different cost of living.

bottom line is put a great product on the court that the fans can be proud of and do it for more then one season and i think the fans will come back. I think we are well on the road to that place right now.
 
There is a simple answer to your question.


WIN.

win and our fan base comes back. To the season ticket holders that say they would never come back under any circumstances I say it's easy to say when your team has stunk as long as we have. The true test of that statement is when your team is ranked in the top 25 and returns to national power on a regular basis. Then we'll see who stays away because they feel they were jilted.

Comparing ticket prices in Kansas City to NYC is unfair two vastly different markets with vastly different cost of living.

bottom line is put a great product on the court that the fans can be proud of and do it for more then one season and i think the fans will come back. I think we are well on the road to that place right now.
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'Nuff said.
 
 The re-seating and points-system was a colossal disaster which is certainly hard to recover. It's one thing to have a points system when the team is booming and there's competition for seating. Instead, they introduced the "points" system when we were terrible. They re-seated fans that have been loyal for decades instead rewarding recent donors etc. some people retire and come on some harder times. Loyalty can't be rated by points. A system like that should be implemented when we have 6000+ season ticket packages and the administration has to stratify based on massive demand. It certainly hurt the fan base.

Winning consistently and having a charismatic coach like Lavin should help a lot. It will require a good 5-10 years of real good teams to create a buzz and a new generation of fans that "must" have SJU tickets. Nothing instant. Pitt game was nearly sold out last year and it was mostly SJU fans. It goes to show that the potential is there for sure...
 
 I have the 275 season tix so i pay $16 a game for a mid level seat at CA and a 200's seat at MSG.... SJU is offering a great package in my opinion....
 
 
2) The first bad move was the creation of a student section at Alumni Hall. This was done because we didn't have one, but in doing so, they moved the entire bleacher section facing the benches to the upper level. That move resulted in hundreds of cancellations, and since the teams stunk, the "student section" was pretty empty and appeared not to even have students in them.
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The new student sections are the best part of CA.
 
How many threads are you going to start whining that the fans don't come to game and variously blaming the administration, season ticket holders, the point system, the LIRR, whatever?

It isn't that hard to figure out. You're in New York, there is tremendous competition for the sports dollar, we have never had a dedicated student or graduate fan base due to being a commuter school attended by locals, and we've basically stunk for a decade.

Mullin left the building a quarter century ago.

If the program wins 20+ three years in a row and makes a couple of deep NCAA runs, people will come. Until we do, they won't. Period.
 
 
2) The first bad move was the creation of a student section at Alumni Hall. This was done because we didn't have one, but in doing so, they moved the entire bleacher section facing the benches to the upper level. That move resulted in hundreds of cancellations, and since the teams stunk, the "student section" was pretty empty and appeared not to even have students in them.
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The new student sections are the best part of CA.
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I'm not talking about the new student section in the refurbished CA. There has been a growing loyal group of students.

IF you recall, administration, lacking a student section, re-seated all seaxson ticket holder in Alumni Hall to upstairs to create a large student section in the bleachers. The move was a disaster, because there wasn't any interest shown by students, AND it caused hundreds of cancellations form longtime season ticket holders..
 
How many threads are you going to start whining that the fans don't come to game and variously blaming the administration, season ticket holders, the point system, the LIRR, whatever?

It isn't that hard to figure out. You're in New York, there is tremendous competition for the sports dollar, we have never had a dedicated student or graduate fan base due to being a commuter school attended by locals, and we've basically stunk for a decade.

Mullin left the building a quarter century ago.

If the program wins 20+ three years in a row and makes a couple of deep NCAA runs, people will come. Until we do, they won't. Period.
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So to you, fans will stay away if we make the tournament in consecutive years and make a deep run into the NCAA tournament, but then be convinced after 3 years of great basketball and magically return?

Is this your brilliant thinking, or is it anecdotal deduction, given that we made the tournament last year, rose to top ten in the rankings, nailed one of the best recruiting classes in the country, and people have still stayed home and the number of season tix haven't increased substantially?

Are you out of your mind to think we never had a strong graduate ticket base? Most of our long term season ticket holders went to St. John's. Of course there was a time when we were NYC's college basketball team, adopted by many New Yorkers as "their team". As a commuter school, at times the only thing tying people to St. John's was Redmen basketball. For many of us who still show up, it's STILL the main attraction of the school.

Are you a season ticket holder? Were you there on Saturday? Saturday was an embarrassing joke, as are the so called fans of the program who stayed home on Saturday while Syracuse took over MSG.
 
How many threads are you going to start whining that the fans don't come to game and variously blaming the administration, season ticket holders, the point system, the LIRR, whatever?

It isn't that hard to figure out. You're in New York, there is tremendous competition for the sports dollar, we have never had a dedicated student or graduate fan base due to being a commuter school attended by locals, and we've basically stunk for a decade.

Mullin left the building a quarter century ago.

If the program wins 20+ three years in a row and makes a couple of deep NCAA runs, people will come. Until we do, they won't. Period.
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If I may bring you back to the point of this thread, I saw many SU fans entering MSG with similar tickets to mine in their hands. This means that our season ticket fan base took the greedy way out of the Garden and sold their tickets for ridiculous amounts of money ( I hope ). This makes them members of the oldest profession in the world or the worst kind of fans ever. That was the point of this thread and that's why I started it.
 
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2aaVWhqcc[/video]

We owned the Garden once. We'll own the Garden again! 
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We own the Garden, now and forever, Amen (invision a "Tebow" here)!!!
 
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