Really exciting report, and I echo others who have said that I am thankful for the professional and methodical approach Coach is bringing to the team after all these years of haphazard direction.
Rothstein at SJU Practice
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JohnnyFever
Active member
Glad to hear so many positives...obviously practice is what Iverson famously said..."it's practice". When the games start we will know where we are. I think this is the year CMA has to at least be on the bubble with 18+ wins or so and a solid Big East record (.500 or above) to really get some credit nationally. He showed in year 1 he can take what many figured were bench players and turn them into Big East starter level guys while building their skills. Now he needs to show he can build on that. He can then show top 100 recruits a clear upward trend for the program and tell them that they are the missing piece to become a tourney team. Much easier to sell that with clear evidence. I think reasonable expectation is bubble team this year (18+ W's) with .500+ conf and next year 20+ wins with .500+ record with a tourney berth. My only significant concern going into season is 3 pt shooting.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="redmanwest" post=400020]Really exciting report, and I echo others who have said that I am thankful for the professional and methodical approach Coach is bringing to the team after all these years of haphazard direction.[/quote]
I agree...part of me gets a bit weary since we heard all these praises with Mullin too...remember hearing how he's knocking down every gym door for recruits? We were told he was a tireless worker, a gym rat that would transfer to the kids. We all believe it of course...until we saw the hard evidence otherwise. It's possible CMA doesn't work out obviously...but there's something different about him it seems. He's not an NBA HOFer who constantly leaves the NYC area. He's also not a slick car salesman. He's just a salt of the earth type guy who seems to work tirelessly (with actual evidence) and it's not enough for him to develop players...he wants to develop them as young men character wise too. Character is such a huge thing that most great teams have. Villanova is always the first to come up. The way their kids carry themselves, the way they act off the court, the professionalism and work ethic, the selflessness, and the effort. Guys like Divicenzo and Gillespie were never big time recruits. But their character paired with great coaching turned them into top college hoops players nationally. Look at Paschall...used to be a Fordham player not really known...then goes to Nova and becomes a top player nationally. Lavin teams had great talent, but very poor character overall. We saw how that turned out. Recruiting matters still, but intangibles loom large.
I agree...part of me gets a bit weary since we heard all these praises with Mullin too...remember hearing how he's knocking down every gym door for recruits? We were told he was a tireless worker, a gym rat that would transfer to the kids. We all believe it of course...until we saw the hard evidence otherwise. It's possible CMA doesn't work out obviously...but there's something different about him it seems. He's not an NBA HOFer who constantly leaves the NYC area. He's also not a slick car salesman. He's just a salt of the earth type guy who seems to work tirelessly (with actual evidence) and it's not enough for him to develop players...he wants to develop them as young men character wise too. Character is such a huge thing that most great teams have. Villanova is always the first to come up. The way their kids carry themselves, the way they act off the court, the professionalism and work ethic, the selflessness, and the effort. Guys like Divicenzo and Gillespie were never big time recruits. But their character paired with great coaching turned them into top college hoops players nationally. Look at Paschall...used to be a Fordham player not really known...then goes to Nova and becomes a top player nationally. Lavin teams had great talent, but very poor character overall. We saw how that turned out. Recruiting matters still, but intangibles loom large.
beast of the east
Active member
It seems almost ridiculous to revisit, but worthwhile to do it.
Jarvis simply stopped recruiting hard, and became disgusted with having to deal with AAU coaches and handlers, many who had their hand out, and all who had a bloated sense of their self worth that college coaches have to contend with.
Roberts was flailing away in "save my job" mode for 3 seasons at least, much like Isaiah Thomas was when he coached the Knicks. In Thomas' case, the result was a salary bloated roster that had to be cleaned up by Donnie Walsh, who did an amazing job doing so. Roberts left Lavin with an entire roster of seniors, which almost guaranteed a collapse in year two of the Lavin regime. He was all in for his final year in terms of saving his job, and the result was a severely imbalanced roster in terms of graduating class.
Lavin simply went for the best players he could recruit, regardless of position, depth, size, or graduating class. Yes, he was able to recruit some pretty impressive talent, but mostly from the larger pool of guards. His last team basically had Chris Obepka and 5 guards in the playing rotation. Talented group, but a recipe for disaster, and after Harrison's injury and Obekpa's suspension, it all went up in smoke, so to speak.
Mullin - Again, the roster simply did not have enough big men to compete at the highest levels. Yes, mostly through transfers, was able to put a pretty talented team on the floor that was even spoken about as a dark horse for the Final Four. They never really recovered fully from Lovett, and that all goes back to bad team construct. Little depth, not enough size, and poor roster management in terms of graduating class, which left CMA with a barren cupboard.
CMA - so far, it appears that CMA is the first guy in the mentioned group who actually knows how to build a sturdy house. We have size, we have depth, and we have a few guards that can play. Of course, what we are missing at this point, is upper echelon talent, but that is something where success builds more success.
On this subject, so far, no question, CMA has built the most balanced and deepest roster, even if overall talent is not as high as some of the other teams mentioned.
Jarvis simply stopped recruiting hard, and became disgusted with having to deal with AAU coaches and handlers, many who had their hand out, and all who had a bloated sense of their self worth that college coaches have to contend with.
Roberts was flailing away in "save my job" mode for 3 seasons at least, much like Isaiah Thomas was when he coached the Knicks. In Thomas' case, the result was a salary bloated roster that had to be cleaned up by Donnie Walsh, who did an amazing job doing so. Roberts left Lavin with an entire roster of seniors, which almost guaranteed a collapse in year two of the Lavin regime. He was all in for his final year in terms of saving his job, and the result was a severely imbalanced roster in terms of graduating class.
Lavin simply went for the best players he could recruit, regardless of position, depth, size, or graduating class. Yes, he was able to recruit some pretty impressive talent, but mostly from the larger pool of guards. His last team basically had Chris Obepka and 5 guards in the playing rotation. Talented group, but a recipe for disaster, and after Harrison's injury and Obekpa's suspension, it all went up in smoke, so to speak.
Mullin - Again, the roster simply did not have enough big men to compete at the highest levels. Yes, mostly through transfers, was able to put a pretty talented team on the floor that was even spoken about as a dark horse for the Final Four. They never really recovered fully from Lovett, and that all goes back to bad team construct. Little depth, not enough size, and poor roster management in terms of graduating class, which left CMA with a barren cupboard.
CMA - so far, it appears that CMA is the first guy in the mentioned group who actually knows how to build a sturdy house. We have size, we have depth, and we have a few guards that can play. Of course, what we are missing at this point, is upper echelon talent, but that is something where success builds more success.
On this subject, so far, no question, CMA has built the most balanced and deepest roster, even if overall talent is not as high as some of the other teams mentioned.
JohnnyFever
Active member
Agree Beast, only thing I'd disagree with is us having plenty of size. I think we will still be undersized against many teams as usual. McGriff and Posh are under 6 ft, and the only big with true big height is Moore and he is very skinny. He also seems to think of himself as more of a wing based on comments he made recently. He likes to shoot it. Roberts and Toro are well under the 6'10-6'11 cutoff IMO for real big height.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400030]Agree Beast, only thing I'd disagree with is us having plenty of size. I think we will still be undersized against many teams as usual. McGriff and Posh are under 6 ft, and the only big with true big height is Moore and he is very skinny. He also seems to think of himself as more of a wing based on comments he made recently. He likes to shoot it. Roberts and Toro are well under the 6'10-6'11 cutoff IMO for real big height.[/quote]
No question that having bigs who can play are the most difficult to find but I do believe CMA has done a pretty good job so far in recruiting all positions. We are no where near done and somewhat confident that in two years we will be in a different place talent wise.
No question that having bigs who can play are the most difficult to find but I do believe CMA has done a pretty good job so far in recruiting all positions. We are no where near done and somewhat confident that in two years we will be in a different place talent wise.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400030]Agree Beast, only thing I'd disagree with is us having plenty of size. I think we will still be undersized against many teams as usual. McGriff and Posh are under 6 ft, and the only big with true big height is Moore and he is very skinny. He also seems to think of himself as more of a wing based on comments he made recently. He likes to shoot it. Roberts and Toro are well under the 6'10-6'11 cutoff IMO for real big height.[/quote]
Current team seems built for quickness and generating some offense off defensive pressure. Of course a non plodding good sized post man would be desired over next few recruiting cycles, but looks like we will wait for that. Superb fitness, reasonably long rotation to maximize pressure resulting in winning turnover contest and sharing ball offensively seems blueprint fo this tough, competitive season.
Wild card to me is whether Cole rep as a scorer translates to Big East play. Hope so, infusion of scoring an obvious plus.
Current team seems built for quickness and generating some offense off defensive pressure. Of course a non plodding good sized post man would be desired over next few recruiting cycles, but looks like we will wait for that. Superb fitness, reasonably long rotation to maximize pressure resulting in winning turnover contest and sharing ball offensively seems blueprint fo this tough, competitive season.
Wild card to me is whether Cole rep as a scorer translates to Big East play. Hope so, infusion of scoring an obvious plus.
JohnnyFever
Active member
Hopefully we get Curry then we can have some solid size to at least go toe to toe with most teams unless they're giants like that Purdue team but that's rare. By the way, to clarify, a SJ fan made some nice comments about Moore's ability to shoot and suggested he could play some wing. Moore replied, "Thank you!" as if relieved that he noticed and wants others to realize. Doesn't seem like throwback big. More like a Tariq I guess?
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400024][quote="redmanwest" post=400020]Really exciting report, and I echo others who have said that I am thankful for the professional and methodical approach Coach is bringing to the team after all these years of haphazard direction.[/quote]
I agree...part of me gets a bit weary since we heard all these praises with Mullin too...remember hearing how he's knocking down every gym door for recruits? We were told he was a tireless worker, a gym rat that would transfer to the kids. We all believe it of course...until we saw the hard evidence otherwise. It's possible CMA doesn't work out obviously...but there's something different about him it seems. He's not an NBA HOFer who constantly leaves the NYC area. He's also not a slick car salesman. He's just a salt of the earth type guy who seems to work tirelessly (with actual evidence) and it's not enough for him to develop players...he wants to develop them as young men character wise too. Character is such a huge thing that most great teams have. Villanova is always the first to come up. The way their kids carry themselves, the way they act off the court, the professionalism and work ethic, the selflessness, and the effort. Guys like Divicenzo and Gillespie were never big time recruits. But their character paired with great coaching turned them into top college hoops players nationally. Look at Paschall...used to be a Fordham player not really known...then goes to Nova and becomes a top player nationally. Lavin teams had great talent, but very poor character overall. We saw how that turned out. Recruiting matters still, but intangibles loom large.[/quote]
The difference between Mullin and CMA was there for anyone to see. They just needed to look at them objectively.
CMA has a 20 year PROVEN track record as a winning, clue collar, nose to the grind stone head coach.
Mullin had ZERO coaching and recruiting experience at any level.
You bet that there's something different about CMA. He's not afraid to work for his success in this job.
I agree...part of me gets a bit weary since we heard all these praises with Mullin too...remember hearing how he's knocking down every gym door for recruits? We were told he was a tireless worker, a gym rat that would transfer to the kids. We all believe it of course...until we saw the hard evidence otherwise. It's possible CMA doesn't work out obviously...but there's something different about him it seems. He's not an NBA HOFer who constantly leaves the NYC area. He's also not a slick car salesman. He's just a salt of the earth type guy who seems to work tirelessly (with actual evidence) and it's not enough for him to develop players...he wants to develop them as young men character wise too. Character is such a huge thing that most great teams have. Villanova is always the first to come up. The way their kids carry themselves, the way they act off the court, the professionalism and work ethic, the selflessness, and the effort. Guys like Divicenzo and Gillespie were never big time recruits. But their character paired with great coaching turned them into top college hoops players nationally. Look at Paschall...used to be a Fordham player not really known...then goes to Nova and becomes a top player nationally. Lavin teams had great talent, but very poor character overall. We saw how that turned out. Recruiting matters still, but intangibles loom large.[/quote]
The difference between Mullin and CMA was there for anyone to see. They just needed to look at them objectively.
CMA has a 20 year PROVEN track record as a winning, clue collar, nose to the grind stone head coach.
Mullin had ZERO coaching and recruiting experience at any level.
You bet that there's something different about CMA. He's not afraid to work for his success in this job.
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=400002][quote="Boo Harvey" post=399987][quote="Paultzman" post=399986]“ St. John's is significantly deeper in Year 2 under Mike Anderson. Would expect 10 guys to play regularly in an effort to sustain pressure. Need to find ways to manufacture easy baskets.”[/quote]
Not a lot of consistent outside shooting with that starting five. Surprised Cole was not included. I always felt he would need to be very good this year for us to be solid. Perhaps I’m wrong.[/quote]
The lack of buzz on Cole may mean a slow start as he transitions to high major play. The kid obviously has a ton of talent and can shoot the rock, but it might be too much to expect him to immediately match LJs production.[/quote]
Sounds like Cole's PT will be determined by how improved Caraher / Williams shooting is as well as how quickly Cole adjusts from JC play.
Not a lot of consistent outside shooting with that starting five. Surprised Cole was not included. I always felt he would need to be very good this year for us to be solid. Perhaps I’m wrong.[/quote]
The lack of buzz on Cole may mean a slow start as he transitions to high major play. The kid obviously has a ton of talent and can shoot the rock, but it might be too much to expect him to immediately match LJs production.[/quote]
Sounds like Cole's PT will be determined by how improved Caraher / Williams shooting is as well as how quickly Cole adjusts from JC play.
[quote="MainMan" post=400042]I know this is crazy, but hear me out!
Maybe, just maybe we should take Rothstein with a grain of salt.
Exhibit A from 2 years ago:
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
Not crazy, Rothstein is master of hyperbole
Maybe, just maybe we should take Rothstein with a grain of salt.
Exhibit A from 2 years ago:
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
Not crazy, Rothstein is master of hyperbole
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400033]Hopefully we get Curry then we can have some solid size to at least go toe to toe with most teams unless they're giants like that Purdue team but that's rare. By the way, to clarify, a SJ fan made some nice comments about Moore's ability to shoot and suggested he could play some wing. Moore replied, "Thank you!" as if relieved that he noticed and wants others to realize. Doesn't seem like throwback big. More like a Tariq I guess?[/quote]
Moore is a throw back big, if you're throwing it back to Mel Counts. :lol:
Moore is a throw back big, if you're throwing it back to Mel Counts. :lol:
[quote="Paultzman" post=400043][quote="MainMan" post=400042]I know this is crazy, but hear me out!
Maybe, just maybe we should take Rothstein with a grain of salt.
Exhibit A from 2 years ago:
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
Not crazy, Rothstein is master of hyperbole[/quote]
Is it fair to say that he's going to take the input from staff on how these players are doing and that he's not making his own talent evaluations in most cases?
I mean we've all seen guys that were rock stars in practice and something much less in real games, but if these write ups he does as he tours different teams practices are driven by input from the staff and not his own evaluations, then I'm far more confident in this staffs player evaluations than I'd be in that of their predecessor's.
Maybe, just maybe we should take Rothstein with a grain of salt.
Exhibit A from 2 years ago:
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
Not crazy, Rothstein is master of hyperbole[/quote]
Is it fair to say that he's going to take the input from staff on how these players are doing and that he's not making his own talent evaluations in most cases?
I mean we've all seen guys that were rock stars in practice and something much less in real games, but if these write ups he does as he tours different teams practices are driven by input from the staff and not his own evaluations, then I'm far more confident in this staffs player evaluations than I'd be in that of their predecessor's.
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="MainMan" post=400042]Rothstein two years ago, so you know, grain of salt everyone......
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
He clearly meant 8 mistakes per 8 mpg.
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
He clearly meant 8 mistakes per 8 mpg.
I don’t think we should worry about a starting five. Based on last year, I would expect 10 or 11 players are going to see significant minutes. We will have players who will start games but I expect to see multiple combinations throughout the game. Seems to me he likes players to EARN there minutes. Earlington, who improved enormously, seemed to play more in big minutes as they went along. Coming into last season he was considered a “project” by most if not all of us. He’s now a key player on this team.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="sjc88" post=400061]I don’t think we should worry about a starting five. Based on last year, I would expect 10 or 11 players are going to see significant minutes. We will have players who will start games but I expect to see multiple combinations throughout the game. Seems to me he likes players to EARN there minutes. Earlington, who improved enormously, seemed to play more in big minutes as they went along. Coming into last season he was considered a “project” by most if not all of us. He’s now a key player on this team.[/quote]
I'm not going to identify who, and this isn't directed at Earlington, but I would expect that some guys who played well enough on a 5-13 conference team may not see much playing time if our roster has strengthened considerably. Last season on a talent this roster several guys played really well considering low expectations of them. We will just have to see how this all plays out.
I'm not going to identify who, and this isn't directed at Earlington, but I would expect that some guys who played well enough on a 5-13 conference team may not see much playing time if our roster has strengthened considerably. Last season on a talent this roster several guys played really well considering low expectations of them. We will just have to see how this all plays out.
[quote="L J S A" post=400057][quote="MainMan" post=400042]Rothstein two years ago, so you know, grain of salt everyone......
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
He clearly meant 8 mistakes per 8 mpg.[/quote]
TBH from what I saw of Keita at South Carolina, that was a very fair assessment. Obviously it didn't happen, but I'm not sure how much of that is on the player and how much was on the staff.
"South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB"[/quote]
He clearly meant 8 mistakes per 8 mpg.[/quote]
TBH from what I saw of Keita at South Carolina, that was a very fair assessment. Obviously it didn't happen, but I'm not sure how much of that is on the player and how much was on the staff.
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