Rothstein’s BE Power Rankings

Mark Redman wrote: Butler is always underrated
They are generally picked low preseason and never finish there
I'd be surprised to see them in the bottom three next year.

You may well be right MR and I agree they are usually underrated preseason. Just think they are going to have a hard time scoring with Baldwin and McDermott both gone but certainly wouldn't surprise me if they finished higher than 9th.
 
For Johnnies to move up & make a little noise, winning on road to a reasonable degree is essential. Winning once away in BE last season has to change. I do feel that will improve, but a key imo.
 
Johnnies are very solid up and down the roster this year and will run people ragged if the newbies buy in to the CMA program early. But to get in the top 5/6 they'll have to win more 50-50 games, including a few on the road. To do that a closer is going to have to emerge from the pack - a guy who takes them on his back in the last 5 minutes of close games. Maybe it will alternate between 2 or 3 guys, but that resource needs to be there for them to make the next step up in the BE. My candidates: Penny, the Duke, and Cole.
 
[quote="REB" post=390687]My candidates: Penny, the Duke, and Cole.[/quote]

Couldnt agree more. I think these are our 3 best players. And by seasons end, I believe Posh becomes one of these guys as well.
 
[quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390655][quote="fordham96" post=390637][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390619]Uconn at number 3 is a little suspect. I know they have some nice talent and that guard Bouknight is very good but I don't buy it. I don't think the transition will be that easy.[/quote]

They finished the season on a serious roll, winning 6 out of last 7 (Only loss was an OT loss at Temple). They return all of their main guys and have a terrific class coming in. I think they are poised to be really good next year.[/quote]

Uconn beat South Fl, Central Florida, Tulane, and East Carolina and Memphis in that stretch. Only Memphis was over 500 in conference, and barely over. Also Temple beat them and they were only 6-12 in the American.

Like I said, they will struggle with the grind that is the Big East. The depth in the American is nowhere near the Big East. That being said, I respect Hurley and their talent level so I wouldn't be shocked if they end up in the top half. Just wouldn't put them there yet.[/quote]

You're acting like UCONN has been a mid-major for 2 decades and are taking a step up. Put aside the fact they have spent a good portion of the last 25-30 years in the BE and dominating it, they won a National title in the AAC. Who does Gonzaga beat in their conference every year outside of St. Mary's? Does that mean Gonzaga would be a middle of the pack BE team if they converted? Their recruiting alone is better then almost every BE team. And let's not overrate the BE, outside of NOVA no one has done anything in the NCAA Tourney.. And I think the BE is good. But jeez stop acting like UCONN has been in the MAAC the last 7 years. Look at the type of kids they are getting, they are getting high level 4 star kids.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=390766][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390655][quote="fordham96" post=390637][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390619]Uconn at number 3 is a little suspect. I know they have some nice talent and that guard Bouknight is very good but I don't buy it. I don't think the transition will be that easy.[/quote]

They finished the season on a serious roll, winning 6 out of last 7 (Only loss was an OT loss at Temple). They return all of their main guys and have a terrific class coming in. I think they are poised to be really good next year.[/quote]

Uconn beat South Fl, Central Florida, Tulane, and East Carolina and Memphis in that stretch. Only Memphis was over 500 in conference, and barely over. Also Temple beat them and they were only 6-12 in the American.

Like I said, they will struggle with the grind that is the Big East. The depth in the American is nowhere near the Big East. That being said, I respect Hurley and their talent level so I wouldn't be shocked if they end up in the top half. Just wouldn't put them there yet.[/quote]

You're acting like UCONN has been a mid-major for 2 decades and are taking a step up. Put aside the fact they have spent a good portion of the last 25-30 years in the BE and dominating it, they won a National title in the AAC. Who does Gonzaga beat in their conference every year outside of St. Mary's? Does that mean Gonzaga would be a middle of the pack BE team if they converted? Their recruiting alone is better then almost every BE team. And let's not overrate the BE, outside of NOVA no one has done anything in the NCAA Tourney.. And I think the BE is good. But jeez stop acting like UCONN has been in the MAAC the last 7 years. Look at the type of kids they are getting, they are getting high level 4 star kids.[/quote]

1. Jim Calhoun built Uconn. He's not there. Uconn's past isn't relevant at this point. They have none of his DNA left.
2. The Gonzaga comparison make no sense. They dominate their league. They dominate nationally. They are a top 5 program year in year out. They would be right at the top with Nova in our league. Uconn doesn't have that pedigree anymore. Again, they haven't had anywhere near the success they expected in their new league. Apples and oranges.
3. Not Worth debating Big East vs American. Forget March, I'm talking about on a nightly basis, American can't hold a candle to the Big East. Once you get past the top 2 or 3 teams in each league, the Big East just takes over.
 
[quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390775][quote="fordham96" post=390766][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390655][quote="fordham96" post=390637][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390619]Uconn at number 3 is a little suspect. I know they have some nice talent and that guard Bouknight is very good but I don't buy it. I don't think the transition will be that easy.[/quote]

They finished the season on a serious roll, winning 6 out of last 7 (Only loss was an OT loss at Temple). They return all of their main guys and have a terrific class coming in. I think they are poised to be really good next year.[/quote]

Uconn beat South Fl, Central Florida, Tulane, and East Carolina and Memphis in that stretch. Only Memphis was over 500 in conference, and barely over. Also Temple beat them and they were only 6-12 in the American.

Like I said, they will struggle with the grind that is the Big East. The depth in the American is nowhere near the Big East. That being said, I respect Hurley and their talent level so I wouldn't be shocked if they end up in the top half. Just wouldn't put them there yet.[/quote]

You're acting like UCONN has been a mid-major for 2 decades and are taking a step up. Put aside the fact they have spent a good portion of the last 25-30 years in the BE and dominating it, they won a National title in the AAC. Who does Gonzaga beat in their conference every year outside of St. Mary's? Does that mean Gonzaga would be a middle of the pack BE team if they converted? Their recruiting alone is better then almost every BE team. And let's not overrate the BE, outside of NOVA no one has done anything in the NCAA Tourney.. And I think the BE is good. But jeez stop acting like UCONN has been in the MAAC the last 7 years. Look at the type of kids they are getting, they are getting high level 4 star kids.[/quote]

1. Jim Calhoun built Uconn. He's not there. Uconn's past isn't relevant at this point. They have none of his DNA left.
2. The Gonzaga comparison make no sense. They dominate their league. They dominate nationally. They are a top 5 program year in year out. They would be right at the top with Nova in our league. Uconn doesn't have that pedigree anymore. Again, they haven't had anywhere near the success they expected in their new league. Apples and oranges.
3. Not Worth debating Big East vs American. Forget March, I'm talking about on a nightly basis, American can't hold a candle to the Big East. Once you get past the top 2 or 3 teams in each league, the Big East just takes over.[/quote]

The comparison wasn't equating them it was based on going thru the 6-7 gams an acting like they didn't beat anyone. And the Jim Calhoun comparison has to do with what? They won a NC under Kevin Ollie who averaged 20 wins a year for 7 yrs and was fired? How many BE teams would do that? And I think you agree that Danny Hurley was considered one of the best up and coming young coaches in the country, UCONN was able to nab him because it is a very good job. Ask yourself this? Where would you rank the UCONN job right now in the BE? It would cleary be in the tip 3 with Nova and Georgetown. Easily.

The overall point was not to say UCONN is back to national prominence yet. But they are clearly trending in the right direction. Two follow ups:

1)The AAC is not the ACC or even the BE but it is not the MAAC. Schools like Wichita St, Cincy, Houston, Memphis etc can compete with top level BE schools. So this idea that the transition is going ot be tough I don't buy it. Just look at the recruiting, what recruits is UCONN getting that are not BE level or above?

2)Beating the lesser teams is the first step in being good. You don't go 5-13 in th conferece because you lose to only Creighton and Nova. You lose to bad teams a lot as well. Conversely you don't go 14-4 or 13-5 etc by just beating the Creightons and Nova's. Embedded in those numbers are a lot of wins over some mediocre to bad teams.

Duke's last 6 games last year. Again I am not saying UCONN is as good as Duke. What I am saying is you have to be careful about just looking at good wins. Most of the good teams have a TON of wins over bad teams. Last 6 games, NC St twice, Wake Forest, Virginia, Virgina Tech and North Carolina. They went 3-3 and the only team in that stretch that was an NCAA team definite was UVA and they lost to them. They also lost to a very bad Wake team.
 
Let's insert SJU in the same situation as UCONN. Let's say SJU finished with 6 wins in the last 7. Finished with 19 wins overall. Was basically a lock for the NIT and had just about everyone coming back from that team and had a really good recruiting class coming in. right at the top of the conference in terms of class rankings, Now the 6 wins weren't over Kansas and Kentucky. Understood. But something seemed to click at the end and the team started to play really well. throw in the 3rd year of a rebuilding job being done by a really good rebuilding coach. You telling me we wouldn't have a lot to be excited about?

To me UCONN has the look of what Georgetown had going into THIS YEAR. 3rd year rebuilding, some good young talent and coming off an NIT year. Chance to be real good. But it is all on paper. And of course we know what happened to Georgetown. The roster collapsed and he literally had no team last half of the year. So no guarantees.
 
Re: Yukon, they were not exactly dominating the AAC so you can knock the Gonzaga comparison right out the window where it belongs. Hurley has proven he can win with hungry players who will accept a lunatic coach but dealing with prima dona high level recruits is a whole different game. We're already seeing this at Yukon under Hurley. It will only get worse for him as pressure builds. I'm thinking PJ Carlissimo Karma for Hurley who was a very difficult player to deal with himself. As I said earlier, it will end badly.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=390776][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390775][quote="fordham96" post=390766][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390655][quote="fordham96" post=390637][quote="SJUhoopNUT" post=390619]Uconn at number 3 is a little suspect. I know they have some nice talent and that guard Bouknight is very good but I don't buy it. I don't think the transition will be that easy.[/quote]

They finished the season on a serious roll, winning 6 out of last 7 (Only loss was an OT loss at Temple). They return all of their main guys and have a terrific class coming in. I think they are poised to be really good next year.[/quote]

Uconn beat South Fl, Central Florida, Tulane, and East Carolina and Memphis in that stretch. Only Memphis was over 500 in conference, and barely over. Also Temple beat them and they were only 6-12 in the American.

Like I said, they will struggle with the grind that is the Big East. The depth in the American is nowhere near the Big East. That being said, I respect Hurley and their talent level so I wouldn't be shocked if they end up in the top half. Just wouldn't put them there yet.[/quote]

You're acting like UCONN has been a mid-major for 2 decades and are taking a step up. Put aside the fact they have spent a good portion of the last 25-30 years in the BE and dominating it, they won a National title in the AAC. Who does Gonzaga beat in their conference every year outside of St. Mary's? Does that mean Gonzaga would be a middle of the pack BE team if they converted? Their recruiting alone is better then almost every BE team. And let's not overrate the BE, outside of NOVA no one has done anything in the NCAA Tourney.. And I think the BE is good. But jeez stop acting like UCONN has been in the MAAC the last 7 years. Look at the type of kids they are getting, they are getting high level 4 star kids.[/quote]

1. Jim Calhoun built Uconn. He's not there. Uconn's past isn't relevant at this point. They have none of his DNA left.
2. The Gonzaga comparison make no sense. They dominate their league. They dominate nationally. They are a top 5 program year in year out. They would be right at the top with Nova in our league. Uconn doesn't have that pedigree anymore. Again, they haven't had anywhere near the success they expected in their new league. Apples and oranges.
3. Not Worth debating Big East vs American. Forget March, I'm talking about on a nightly basis, American can't hold a candle to the Big East. Once you get past the top 2 or 3 teams in each league, the Big East just takes over.[/quote]

2)Beating the lesser teams is the first step in being good. You don't go 5-13 in th conferece because you lose to only Creighton and Nova. You lose to bad teams a lot as well. Conversely you don't go 14-4 or 13-5 etc by just beating the Creightons and Nova's. Embedded in those numbers are a lot of wins over some mediocre to bad teams.

Duke's last 6 games last year. Again I am not saying UCONN is as good as Duke. What I am saying is you have to be careful about just looking at good wins. Most of the good teams have a TON of wins over bad teams. Last 6 games, NC St twice, Wake Forest, Virginia, Virgina Tech and North Carolina. They went 3-3 and the only team in that stretch that was an NCAA team definite was UVA and they lost to them. They also lost to a very bad Wake team.[/quote]

Yea and... there’s pretty much no bad teams in the big East. That’s the point everyone’s trying to make.

UConn isn’t gonna have some easy nights where they get Tulane at home. Or ECU, USF, etc.

DePaul is probably the worst team, and even they were #94 in Kenpom at the end of this season, still top 100.

The American has Temple #115, USF #117, UCF #125, Tulane #185, and of course ECF down there at #217.

For reference, a couple programs a couple notches higher than ECU in kenpom? Prairie View A&M from the mighty SWAC conference come in at #213. Northern Arizona from the Big Sky come in at #215.

Yes, UConn recruits well, yes they won 6 of their last 7... but show me which big East program isn’t favored in 6 of their last 7 with UConn’s slate of opponents?

It’s a step up, and it’s definitely going to be an adjustment. There’s no nights off in the big East.

Also, not for nothing, but in this win streak you are boasting about, they had a guy Christian Vital go off and scored 23,21,24,27,26 and 28 points in the wins.

He was a senior. Akok Akok another rotation guy out for the year already as you know.

But hey maybe they adjust well and finish top half. The guy you were initially arguing with didn’t even rule out the possibility of that but you still had to put your cape on for *checks notes* a team that bailed on our conference and is coming back with their tail between their legs. To each his own I guess
 
Uconn has a nice roster of young players and a good transfer or two like RJ Cole. They still have to put it together though. They lose Vital and Alterique and that’s quite a bit. Not sure who will settle into the pg role. Gaffney was improving and RJ Cole is more of a shooter/scorer. It will be an adjustment for Cole who, while an excellent scorer who had a nice game against Georgetown and one or two others, will have to deal with much better overall competition day in and day out than at Howard.

Bouknight is a star for sure and Richie Springs and Andre Jackson are excellent recruits. I still want to see Hurley and what he can do with them. Uconn doesn’t have a dominating frontcourt. Sanogo is nice as well. Akok likely out. They are certainly talented so I don’t think we can overlook that. They have more talent than we do on paper. I think Mike Anderson is a better coach though and our style is a bear to deal with. Can’t overlook them though.
 
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