Rotation

For those interested, the last time Steve Lavin had a team this deep was the 2000 UCLA Bruins. 10 players got at least 12 minutes a game, and an 11th, Sean Farnham, while only getting 7 minutes a game, was the starter in 11 games.

35 min: Earl Watson
33 min: Jason Kapono
28 min: Jerome Moiso
22 min: JaRon Rush
22 min: Dan Gadzuric
19 min: Ray Young
17 min: Moose Bailey
15 min: Matt Barnes
15 min: Rico Hines
11 min: Billy Knight
7 mins: Sean Farnham

The team lost in the Sweet 16 when Earl Watson went down with a fractured Eye Socket at the end of the round of 32 game - a 105-70 crushing of REALLY good Maryland squad (Juan Dixon, Steve Blake, Lonny Baxter, Drew Nicholas and Taj Holden)
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CR, can you find a boxscore (or remember one) from the games that season?

I'd be curious because they did have a lot of guys who ended up averaging 12+mins. But I'm looking at the end of the year stats and see that Rush only played in 9 games, Farnham missed 10, Rico missed 4 games, Barnes missed 5 , and Knight missed 5 games.

So, on a given night, how deep did he really go down the bench? They ended up all averaging good minutes, but that's because on a given night 2 or 3 guys were probably always out no? So was coach really playing 12 guys? 
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Thought it very apropos to this years team - Branch not eligible till 2nd semester, couple of players starting the season injured. Things happen during the course of a season....for that Bruin team it was an academic suspension to start the season for Matt Barnes, and an NCAA suspension for JaRon Rush during the middle of the season.

Here's the box from that UCLA/Maryland game in the dance: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/men/boxscores/2000/03/18/maj_uaa/

And their biggest win - a huge comeback victory over Stanford: http://www.uclabruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/030400aaa.html

But I think we're talking semantics here. You're looking game by game, I'm looking over the course of a season. When you have Steve Lavin as your coach, those lineups are fluid. Some games are going to go 12 deep, others maybe only 6 or 7. A guy getting no minutes to start the season could be your leading guy in MPG by seasons end. A Guy can go from starter, to bench, back to starter 2 or 3 times a season. Matchups, situations, and phsychology all figure in. Sean Farnham got his 11 starts (which to me make him an important part of the rotation, even with only 8 minutes a game) because Dan Gadzuric was a HYPER kid - he came out with so much adrenaline to start a game that he getting in foul trouble in the first 5 minutes of games - and therefore lost till the 2nd half. Three times in the first 5 games, he fouled on the OPENING TIP! The solution was to sit him for those first 5-7 minutes, start Farnham in his place, and let Dan watch the game, get into the flow, see how the opponents were playing and how the refs were calling the game before he came in. The result was he became a MUCH more effective first half player. Of course Lavin haters to this day still deride Steve for playing his "rabbits foot" instead of an NBA quality center. :)
 
For those interested, the last time Steve Lavin had a team this deep was the 2000 UCLA Bruins. 10 players got at least 12 minutes a game, and an 11th, Sean Farnham, while only getting 7 minutes a game, was the starter in 11 games.

35 min: Earl Watson
33 min: Jason Kapono
28 min: Jerome Moiso
22 min: JaRon Rush
22 min: Dan Gadzuric
19 min: Ray Young
17 min: Moose Bailey
15 min: Matt Barnes
15 min: Rico Hines
11 min: Billy Knight
7 mins: Sean Farnham

The team lost in the Sweet 16 when Earl Watson went down with a fractured Eye Socket at the end of the round of 32 game - a 105-70 crushing of REALLY good Maryland squad (Juan Dixon, Steve Blake, Lonny Baxter, Drew Nicholas and Taj Holden)
Click to expand...
 

CR, can you find a boxscore (or remember one) from the games that season?

I'd be curious because they did have a lot of guys who ended up averaging 12+mins. But I'm looking at the end of the year stats and see that Rush only played in 9 games, Farnham missed 10, Rico missed 4 games, Barnes missed 5 , and Knight missed 5 games.

So, on a given night, how deep did he really go down the bench? They ended up all averaging good minutes, but that's because on a given night 2 or 3 guys were probably always out no? So was coach really playing 12 guys? 
Click to expand...

Thought it very apropos to this years team - Branch not eligible till 2nd semester, couple of players starting the season injured. Things happen during the course of a season....for that Bruin team it was an academic suspension to start the season for Matt Barnes, and an NCAA suspension for JaRon Rush during the middle of the season.

Here's the box from that UCLA/Maryland game in the dance: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/men/boxscores/2000/03/18/maj_uaa/

And their biggest win - a huge comeback victory over Stanford: http://www.uclabruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/030400aaa.html

But I think we're talking semantics here. You're looking game by game, I'm looking over the course of a season. When you have Steve Lavin as your coach, those lineups are fluid. Some games are going to go 12 deep, others maybe only 6 or 7. A guy getting no minutes to start the season could be your leading guy in MPG by seasons end. A Guy can go from starter, to bench, back to starter 2 or 3 times a season. Matchups, situations, and phsychology all figure in. Sean Farnham got his 11 starts (which to me make him an important part of the rotation, even with only 8 minutes a game) because Dan Gadzuric was a HYPER kid - he came out with so much adrenaline to start a game that he getting in foul trouble in the first 5 minutes of games - and therefore lost till the 2nd half. Three times in the first 5 games, he fouled on the OPENING TIP! The solution was to sit him for those first 5-7 minutes, start Farnham in his place, and let Dan watch the game, get into the flow, see how the opponents were playing and how the refs were calling the game before he came in. The result was he became a MUCH more effective first half player. Of course Lavin haters to this day still deride Steve for playing his "rabbits foot" instead of an NBA quality center. :)
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Thanks for the response! Don't take me the wrong way, I wasn't questioning your knowledge of UCLA, I literally couldn't find a box score to get an example from that season. And I like your comparison, in terms of depth this is probably his most similar team. We certainly don't have the height that team did .. but for depth, it's a good comparison.

And although I asked for an individual game's box score, I'm not really looking at it from a game to game perspective. What interests me is over the course of the season, was there a pattern? How deep do coach really go? Certainly from game to game there are going to be different matchups that precipitate some guys playing more.
I just had a hard time believing coach really played 12 guys on a regular basis. But from what you've shown, that does appear to be the case. Interesting.
For my taste, that's too many cooks. Hard to develop chemistry, or be able to anticipate who will be on the wing or when you can gamble defensively (bc you have an Obekpa behind you) - if coach is changing substituting like it's intramurals.


But maybe that's why I'm not a coach and he is ;)
 
 So following Media Day today I saw a blurb on ESPN.com, and the reporter quotes coach Lavin as saying he plans to use a 9 or 10 man rotation.

We start the season with 11 scholarship players, and add Branch in December.

For argument sake, let's say coach goes with a 9 man rotation. Who are the 2 guys who spend most of their time learning from the sidelines this year?

We spend a lot of time discussing which newcomer might make the biggest impact, on the flip side of the coin there's also the question of who still needs time to develop? 



I really don't have a feel for it; but my guess would be Felix and possibly God's Gift, actually. I've heard coach talk very little about either in any of his comments this preseason, and both are at positions that could be come crowded.
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Lavin said he'd like to look at 10 guys but realistically get it down to an 8 man rotation. And correct me if I'm wrong but they say it's 13 scholarship players.

Make no mistake about it - Christian Jones will be apart of the rotation. I haven't seen an interview where Lavin hasn't raved about what CJ is bringing at practices.

My best guess will be Garrett and Balamou not seeing the floor as much during OOC.
During Big East play, I think it'll be Greene.

The reason I say Garrett is because unless his jumper has improved, there's just not many wing minutes out there at SF. Pointer is a superior defensive player and will be out there.

The reason I say Greene during BE play is that I see Branch and Harrison on the floor at the same time a lot. And although Greene is a better defensive player, I think Marco's consistency from 3 will get him more PT than Phil.
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Don't know what team you watched last season but both Greene and Garrett improved tremendously and will continue to receive serious minutes.
 
 So following Media Day today I saw a blurb on ESPN.com, and the reporter quotes coach Lavin as saying he plans to use a 9 or 10 man rotation.

We start the season with 11 scholarship players, and add Branch in December.

For argument sake, let's say coach goes with a 9 man rotation. Who are the 2 guys who spend most of their time learning from the sidelines this year?

We spend a lot of time discussing which newcomer might make the biggest impact, on the flip side of the coin there's also the question of who still needs time to develop? 



I really don't have a feel for it; but my guess would be Felix and possibly God's Gift, actually. I've heard coach talk very little about either in any of his comments this preseason, and both are at positions that could be come crowded.
Click to expand...
 

Lavin said he'd like to look at 10 guys but realistically get it down to an 8 man rotation. And correct me if I'm wrong but they say it's 13 scholarship players.

Make no mistake about it - Christian Jones will be apart of the rotation. I haven't seen an interview where Lavin hasn't raved about what CJ is bringing at practices.

My best guess will be Garrett and Balamou not seeing the floor as much during OOC.
During Big East play, I think it'll be Greene.

The reason I say Garrett is because unless his jumper has improved, there's just not many wing minutes out there at SF. Pointer is a superior defensive player and will be out there.

The reason I say Greene during BE play is that I see Branch and Harrison on the floor at the same time a lot. And although Greene is a better defensive player, I think Marco's consistency from 3 will get him more PT than Phil.
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Don't know what team you watched last season but both Greene and Garrett improved tremendously and will continue to receive serious minutes.
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Because it's not about last year anymore. And it's just my opinion based on what I've heard so far.

Jakarr said he's being transitioned by Lavin to play SF, not PF.
You know Dom will get minutes because he's arguably the best perimeter defender in the Big East.

You tell me- where does that leave Garrett (barring injuries)? I'd say with very limited minutes based on if guys are in foul trouble. He's not going to play SG because he can't shoot. And PF will be manned by CJ/Sanchez/Gift.

Greene. I think Branch and Harrison will get the majority of minutes together at PG and SG at the same time on the floor. He can backup either position but for how many minutes? And do you go with him over Marco, who is a more consistent shooter and zone buster?

Just my opinion folks. There's only so many minutes to be given. 
 
 No way Marco is in the rotation, or we are in serious trouble.
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SJU was one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the nation last year.

Who's hitting threes this year besides D'Angelo?
 
Thanks for the response! Don't take me the wrong way, I wasn't questioning your knowledge of UCLA, I literally couldn't find a box score to get an example from that season. And I like your comparison, in terms of depth this is probably his most similar team. We certainly don't have the height that team did .. but for depth, it's a good comparison.

And although I asked for an individual game's box score, I'm not really looking at it from a game to game perspective. What interests me is over the course of the season, was there a pattern? How deep do coach really go? Certainly from game to game there are going to be different matchups that precipitate some guys playing more.
I just had a hard time believing coach really played 12 guys on a regular basis. But from what you've shown, that does appear to be the case. Interesting.
For my taste, that's too many cooks. Hard to develop chemistry, or be able to anticipate who will be on the wing or when you can gamble defensively (bc you have an Obekpa behind you) - if coach is changing substituting like it's intramurals.


But maybe that's why I'm not a coach and he is ;)
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Again, this is Steve Lavin we're talking about. For good AND bad, he's a different kind of animal. "fluid" in his thinking on personell was the best description I could come up with. During 2000, he experimented several games with litteral "platoon" basketball (or maybe a hockey analagy is better, changing the entire line) - 5 in for 5. Given this years depth, that's not a complete impossibility again. :)
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 OK, I see Lavin playing an 8 man rotation.

Branch
Greene.
Harrison
Garrett
Pointer
Sampson
Sanchez
Obekpa

Who do you guys remove for Marco?
 
the 8 you listed are definitely going to play, but we will almost certainly play more than 8 deep with marco and jones seeing minutes. based upon what we saw in 10/11 and what cr has been detailing about his ucla years, lavin likes to have 10 or 11 he can go to, and he'll fit those 10 or 11 into a 9 or 10 man rotation on a constantly changing basis.

on that point, did anyone see the team photo that was recently released? jones is taller than i thought based upon his listings (he has a solid inch or two on amir in that picture) and jakaar, like moe last year, might be the tallest guy on the team despite being a 3/4. it's tough to tell in that particular picture who's taller between he and obekpa. nevertheless, the two of them and sanchez look like they have legitimate height. i know you measure the arms/reach, but it's still great to have guys whose height looks accurate as opposed to oversold. 
 
 OK, I see Lavin playing an 8 man rotation.

Branch
Greene.
Harrison
Garrett
Pointer
Sampson
Sanchez
Obekpa

Who do you guys remove for Marco?
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Branch will not be eligible 'til December. Bourgault will get some burn.
 
 OK, I see Lavin playing an 8 man rotation.

Branch
Greene.
Harrison
Garrett
Pointer
Sampson
Sanchez
Obekpa

Who do you guys remove for Marco?
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Branch will not be eligible 'til December. Bourgault will get some burn.
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Let's make believe it's December already and I'll go with a 9 man rotation. All of the above names plus Christian Jones. You stilll have Marco playing?


















Let's make believe it'sDecember 
 
I'd slide Obekpa down and put Bourgault ahead. I don't think Jones will be a part of the main rotation. I think both Jones and Obekpa will be situational guys for certain matchups.

I think the main rotation will be Harrison Greene Garrett Branch Pointer Sanchez Bourgault and Sampson.

Lavin likes to keep guys motivated by keeping the end of the rotation flexible, so there will be weeks certain guys work their way in or out.
 
 OK, I see Lavin playing an 8 man rotation.

Branch
Greene.
Harrison
Garrett
Pointer
Sampson
Sanchez
Obekpa

Who do you guys remove for Marco?
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The way Steve is talking up CJones, who do YOU sit for HIM?
 
 I think Bourgault will certainly be part of it, he's a deadly shooter and savy player from what I've heard. He's got the stroke to command minutes, especially when we need offense. Could consider him a role player or whatever, but he'll be in the rotation. Obekpa is much better than a situational player. Just like Louisville doesn't use Dieng as a situational player, neither will we. Dieng of course is an uppderclassmen, but Obekpa i think brings more to the table than just shot blocking. I think we'll go 10 deep and use 2 teams of players almost interchangeably.

We'll play more than 8 I am certain. Too much talent and depth not to. We'd be foolish not to use our strengths which will be depth, athleticism and interchangeability. We'll play 10 deep and by December will have a bench that can beat quite a few teams.
 
 I think Bourgault will certainly be part of it, he's a deadly shooter and savy player from what I've heard. He's got the stroke to command minutes, especially when we need offense. Could consider him a role player or whatever, but he'll be in the rotation. Obekpa is much better than a situational player. Just like Louisville doesn't use Dieng as a situational player, neither will we. Dieng of course is an uppderclassmen, but Obekpa i think brings more to the table than just shot blocking. I think we'll go 10 deep and use 2 teams of players almost interchangeably.

We'll play more than 8 I am certain. Too much talent and depth not to. We'd be foolish not to use our strengths which will be depth, athleticism and interchangeability. We'll play 10 deep and by December will have a bench that can beat quite a few teams.
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Good post. Agreed.
 
Here's a way you could go 11 deep once Branch returns: 

C: Obekpa 20, Gift 10, Sanchez 10
PF: Sanchez 15, Sampson 15, Jones 10
SF: Dom 18, Amir 17, Sampson 5
SG: Harrison 20, Bourgault 15, Greene 5
PG Branch 20, Harrison 12, Greene 8

Totals:
Obekpa 20
Gift 10
Sanchez 25
Sampson 20
Jones 10
Dom 18
Amir 17
Harrison 32
Bourgault 15
Greene 13
Branch 20
 
Here's a way you could go 11 deep once Branch returns: 

C: Obekpa 20, Gift 10, Sanchez 10
PF: Sanchez 15, Sampson 15, Jones 10
SF: Dom 18, Amir 17, Sampson 5
SG: Harrison 20, Bourgault 15, Greene 5
PG Branch 20, Harrison 12, Greene 8

Totals:
Obekpa 20
Gift 10
Sanchez 25
Sampson 20
Jones 10
Dom 18
Amir 17
Harrison 32
Bourgault 15
Greene 13
Branch 20
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I don't see any scenario where Greene and Garrett don't average over a combined 40 mpg. I expect them to be two of our top three or four offensive weapons. Lavin is not going to force a deep rotation. Freshmen bigs take time. Obepka and Jones will be no different.
 
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