jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
From Rolling Stone Magazine:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-the-college-loan-scandal-20130815?print=true
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-the-college-loan-scandal-20130815?print=true
Ripping Off Young America
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
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beast of the east
Active member
I've been railing about this for a long time. Not only is it illicit on the part of colleges, it has also eliminated the sting of tuition increases at a rate much greater than CPI.
Pleasedontbanmeagain
Member
Definitely more than that...many students in the area from more of an upper middle class background attend private schools for undergrad and also grad school. It can EASILY get over $100k. And this is very common.
tom in salem
Well-known member
I'm retired now but when I was working, every company I dealt with paid for their employee's Masters.
That doesnt happen nowadays but from what I recall Gman's company has a pretty good deal for people who go for their masters.
BTW That 28k figure does sound low but worse than that are what some of my friends who had kids right after they got married are starting to go through as their kids are either in college now or are entering college in a year or 2 and they didnt save even remotely enough for what is about to happen
Pleasedontbanmeagain
Member
Many people choose union jobs in the public sector and they would laugh at the concept you just mentioned.
McGarry, the problem is much worse than is led on. Some of my smartest friends graduated with business degrees on dean's list all through college and they had a hard time finding jobs. When they did they got offered anywhere from about 28k-35k with minimal benefits. One of those is in Manhattan. There was a time when I tested the business market and used the psychology angle when in contact with marketing companies. I got some interviews in the city, only to find out they were 100% commission based with zero benefits. Essentially, the only jobs that I saw out there for entry level recent grads were to sell girl scout cookies door to door as a grown man. Just replace girl scout cookies with trying to sell energy service (the breakup of the ConEd monopoly opened the door for tons of small companies to compete) and the like.
I hear of stories from people in my family who used to work at Grumman back in the heyday of the 80's and they were paid $400/month by Grumman just to relocate. They also had all of their gas expenses paid for and were given money for vacations ontop of the already good salary. When people my age look out there and all we see are pyramid schemes where you get $0 base salary and 100% commission with zero benefits, the past generations seem like Disney World.
beast of the east
Active member
Average college debt for 2013 grads is $35,200.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/17/pf/college/student-debt/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/17/pf/college/student-debt/index.html
Pleasedontbanmeagain
Member
Don't know many schools that are $10k/year. Even SUNY's are more like 15 and you come to 60k easily. That's considered dirt cheap too. I will never forget my uncle telling me how he paid as he went at SJU in the 70's. He said tuition was like 2 or 3 grand and he just paid for it with a trivial summer job. Those days are long, long over.
beast of the east
Active member
Many state schools are very inexpensive for in state residents. Tons of kids in community colleges also. I am not making up the numbers. Plus a small number of students have parents footing the whole bill.
tom in salem
Well-known member
Joe makes it sound like no parents assist their kids with college.
I know many people who sent their children to college and picked up the entire bill.
Things even out.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Does a Catholic university have an obligation to make sure that each and every one of their students (and their parents) FULLY understand the implications, consequences and legal obligations of taking on "outsized" student loan debt, particularly in this "new normal" economic enviornment ?
About 40% of the St. John's undergrad population come from families with a Household AGI of $50K or below. Should this financially challenged group of young men and women be EXPLICITLY discouraged from attending St. John's if they MUST take out $35K in student loan debt.
I picked $35K out of "the air". Needless to say, you can choose your own amount of student loan debt.
In your opinion, how much student loan debt is "enough"?
What amount of student loan debt would you discourage your son, daughter, brother, sister, cousin, etc. from taking on ?
About 40% of the St. John's undergrad population come from families with a Household AGI of $50K or below. Should this financially challenged group of young men and women be EXPLICITLY discouraged from attending St. John's if they MUST take out $35K in student loan debt.
I picked $35K out of "the air". Needless to say, you can choose your own amount of student loan debt.
In your opinion, how much student loan debt is "enough"?
What amount of student loan debt would you discourage your son, daughter, brother, sister, cousin, etc. from taking on ?
It goes without saying that everyone's situation is different. But, the fact remains that on average a person earns $1.5m more over the course of their lifetime if they have a bachelors than if they've only graduated high school.
Where you get that degree, and how much debt you should take on, that's up for debate. But even taking out $35k or more, on average, it easily pays off.
Pleasedontbanmeagain
Member
I think it's worth it to go to a reputable private school if they have better connections than some crappy SUNY (Buffalo/Brockport/Cortland/Cobleskill/Fredonia) and better internship opportunities. For example, Marist has very close ties with ESPN, NBC Universal, and IBM (some joke our relationship with the company is so close that it stands for I Bought Marist). Students routinely get internships at these places and some even get offered jobs. You just won't see that at the schools I mentioned before. IMO the only truly good SUNY's are Stony Brook, Geneseo, and Binghamton. The other schools give you that 13th grade feeling...it doesn't seem like students are as serious about going places and doing well academically. No offense to anyone who went there by the way but we all know the top 3 SUNY's are far apart from the rest. All the bums in my high school who skipped class and were into drugs went to those types of schools, while at Marist I was one of the only students who didn't transfer in any AP credits from HS. It's a totally different population. I remember looking at CUNY Hunter and their honor's program required something like an 85 average and the orientation was full of rude, immature idiots acting like goons...so much so that the speaker even had to tell them multiple times to be respectful. Needless to say I walked out and felt like I was in high school again.
I say, as long as you have a plan to get into a career that makes legitimate money (i.e. starting around $60k or so) and can get some assistance from family, then go to the best school you can get into whether that be Columbia or wherever. I have a family member who went to Columbia for education and they were worried it would be too much money, but I urged them to go, because the name "Columbia" on your resume and degree is priceless. After they graduated Columbia, they got a job offer making $70k to teach right away while the Dowling and St. Joe's grads were being rejected. The name on your degree does definitely mean something. The prestige factor is definitely there.
Sorry for the long response, but I think paying more for private school is worth it due to one factor alone: small classes. I think it can affect your experience and GPA so much that it's worth it. I'm used to having classes of 10-12...got to know people very well, talk to my professors before/after class, have them write great recommendation letters when I applied to SJU, and I actually had professors I could understand and participate in discussions with unlike being at Stony Brook with 200 students in a room and a professor from China or India you could barely understand. It may seem trivial but think about it...that means a lot.
beast of the east
Active member
JSJ,
For many of us who attended SJU a generation ago, there WASN'T a second choice to attend a different private university. St. John's tuition was so significantly below that of other local schools there really wasn't an affordable second option. The school was priced to meet its mission as a Catholic Vincentian school, and I'm pretty sure that at the end of the business day there wasn't a heck of a lot left over to beautify the campus. It was once explained to me that Marillac Hall was built in yellow brick, St. Albert's Hall in gray brick, the library different, and so on, because whichever brick was cheapest at the time, was what they use for the exterior façade. Meanwhile, on toney Chestnut Hill, every building at Boston College is constructed of matching stones with slate roof in tudor style. Tuition is through the roof also.
Roll forward 25 years, an the student population is less affluent than ever, and the school is reeling in Pell eligible students (and their government grants) like mackerel during the height of the season. School tuition is set at a suggested retail price comparable to expensive university, but like Modell's, the school boasts that 95% of students receive a discount off that amount in the form of grants and scholarships. At the end of the process of Pell grants, St. John's scholarships and grants, and whatever parents can kick in, what if the student still comes up short? Well, readily available student loans fill the gap nicely.
A $50,000 loan at 4% with a 20 year repayment (I found a website that suggests 12 to 30 year repayment schedules) results in a $303 monthly payment. At 6% the payment swells to $358. Does a student really know the implication of this? A kid who comes out of school with a $30,000 a year job will gross $2500 per month and net $1500. Take $300 off that amount, and there isn't even enough to consider living on your own. At $48,000 per year the sting becomes a little less as net pay rises to about $2400 per month but that $303-358 still takes a chunk out of amounts that could be used to save for a house, 401K, or even their own children's educations.
Does St. John's or any other school sit down with students to explain the ramification of even $50,000 in debt on future income which will take a $6000 bite out of gross annual income for 20 years. Of course not! This would lap at the meat of their profitability. Should they??? You tell me.
Pleasedontbanmeagain
Member
Not to mention the pack of columbia guys wearing the same colored columbia shirts together get all the girls at the boardy barn
It's always funny to see women go from their bad boy stage to wanting to settle down with an established guy with an education and a good job. I love watching the nerds in HS who could never get any become the new "bad boys" with their Yale degrees giving them a near celebrity status once girls grow up and realize Mr. James Dean won't pay the bills or stick around. Go Poindexter, go!