RIP Tom Seaver

[quote="MarkRedman" post=397503]Hard to admit but I cried the day the Mets let Tom Terrific go
Some guys should never have worn another team's jersey
That how I felt about Seaver - he was Mr. Met
RIP, Tom and thanks for so many wonderful memories!![/quote]

I remember Seaver's press conference announcing his departure from the Mets. He was crying too. He loved being a Met but, like many, hated M. Donald Grant, the GM. He is the reason contract negotiations fell through and Seaver went to the Reds.

What a great era for pitchers then, and what a marvelous time to be a baseball fan. Koufax had just retired when Seaver joined the Mets. Marichal, Gibson and Ryan were all still great. Fans of that era went to the park just to see a great pitching duel. The game is so different today, and not in a good way. The stat reported by ESPN that was amazing is that Seaver was 1 of only 2 pitchers to win 300 games, strike out over 3,000, and end with an ERA under 3. The other? Walter Johnson.

I remember leaving junior high early with a bunch of friends to catch a Mets game against the Padres, only because Seaver was pitching. We got there in time to watch him strike out the last 10 Padres. I don't even recall a foul ball. Almost all swings and misses. I never saw domination like that again. RIP Tom. For many of us, you were a big part of our youth and our memories.
 
The ultimate indignity was not the trade.

It was bringing him back with huge fanfare in 83 only to have Cashen leaving him unprotected after the season.

He went on to compile a 3.67 ERA and 17 complete games in 81 appearances for the freakin White Sox.

Imagine if we kept Seaver?

Would he have been enough to overtake the Cubs in 84 or the Cards in 85?
 
I agree. Seaver - Legend - Idol. Class all the way

But Roberto hero. His life is part of the reading series I use in my classroom
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=397522][quote="redmanwest" post=397519]My boyhood idol. The day he was traded from the Mets is the day I became a Yankee fan (and have been ever since). RIP Tom Terrific.



[quote="MarkRedman" post=397503]Hard to admit but I cried the day the Mets let Tom Terrific go
Some guys should never have worn another team's jersey
That how I felt about Seaver - he was Mr. Met
RIP, Tom and thanks for so many wonderful memories!![/quote][/quote]

If you guys recall it wasn't only M. Donald Grant who drove Seaver out of town. Grant was not a baseball guy. He was a long standing friend of Joan Payson, and both were on the board of directors of the NY Giants. After Payson died, her daughter was less involved and gave Grant much more control for team operations. When the Mets were in the doldrums in 1973, Grant took the unusual move as an executive and not a manager or even GM of speaking directly to the team. His harsh criticism designed as an inspiration speech annoyed Mets players, which led to Tug McGraw, sarcatically shouting out in the meeting, "Ya Gotta Believe, Mr. Grant. Ya Gotta Believe." It became the rallying cry for the unlikely pennant run that followed, and became a slogan for the Mets thereafter.

Long time New York Daily news sportswriter Dick Young took a particular dislike to both Seaver and more importantly, to Nancy Seaver. In his daily column Young relentlessly attacked both Seaver and his wife. Young, a friend of Grant's was basically doing Grant a service by publicly discrediting the Seavers as Tom was involved in contract extension talks. Seaver, angered by the personal attacks on himself by Young, but was livid over the attacks on his wife, who he felt should be off limits. Young was basically the catalyst for Seaver asking to be traded, which the skinflint Grant was more than willing to accomodate.

Dick Young was a dirtbag, who thought an awful lot of himself, certainly greater than he should have. In those days, beat reporters would become close to team managers and execs, often drinking in the same hotel bars, and in effect became agents of the teams. Young was doing Grant's bidings. Grant felt that Seaver was paid more than enough already, and so Young wrote about Nancy Seaver's extravagant lifestyle living in Greenwich CT.

Grant thought he got a treasure trove of Reds players for Seaver: SP Pat Zachary, who was good at best. Steve Henderson, a decent hitter with little power, Doug Flynn, a good field modest hitting second baseman, and Dan Norman, who never quite made it. This is all from memory, so there could have been one or two others.

In general, it took arguably the greatest RHP of his generation, and traded him for a handful of mediocre players. Perhaps he thought Seaver, at 33, was on the down side of his career, but in general put the Mets into a tailspin that took a complete rebuild to correct, leading to the 84-88 great teams.

Really aggravating to rethink of that decision. .


[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/sports/baseball/mets-1963-68-seasons.html[/URL][/quote]


Great memory, you nailed the trade and a lot of the things I heard about Dick Young.
Steinbrenner had his guys too.
 
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As a Yankee fan I was saddened when the Mick was dying and he gave a farewell accepting blame for all the drinking he did that shattered his liver...
As a Yankee fan I am equally saddened by the loss of a great Mets legend -
RIP Tom Terrific
 
[quote="Sherman, Sheridan & Grant" post=397534]As a Yankee fan I was saddened when the Mick was dying and he gave a farewell accepting blame for all the drinking he did that shattered his liver...
As a Yankee fan I am equally saddened by the loss of a great Mets legend -
RIP Tom Terrific[/quote]

Although Seaver never played for Stengel, Stengel reported on the 1969 World Series for one of the local papers. can imagine Casey Stengel at the gates of heaven, loudly proclaiming Seaver's arrival as one the "Youth of America" as he called his sometimes not so promising rookies.

I was at Shea Stadium for the 73 playoff game with the Reds, when mayhem broke out after 205 lb Pete Rose barreled into Buddy Harrelson at second base ot prevent a double play. When Rose returned to leftfield in the bottom half of the inning, he was pelted with anything that large numbers of fans could throw at him. I was in the left field mezzanine, and an ice cream vendor was so incensed that he ran to the rail of the seats almost overhanging left field and dumped his entire cooler of ice cream over his head trying to hit Rose.

Umpires stopped play, and the fans persisted until a triumvirate of Seaver, Staub, and WIllie Mays went out to left field with a microphone trying to instill some calm or the umps threatened to forfeit the game.

Truth be told, every single Met played better behind Seaver. They knew if they gave him a run, he could make it stand up, if they gave him two, it was like a four run lead for anyone else, and if they gave him 4 runs, well you may as well end the game right then and there.

Seaver for his part as well as anyone I've ever seen, made whatever his offense gave him stand up. With the possible exception of Jacob deGrom, I don't think I've seen any other pitcher ever regularly throw games where every single pitch was thrown with precision and focus. Just as deGrom does know, Seaver had to do that to win. The only difference is then Seaver's teammates would give him enough to win.
 
[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=397523][quote="Beast of the East" post=397509]Mets should wear a patch of dirt on their left knee for the rest of the season. We all know why.[/quote][/quote]
Beast has pull!
 
[quote="Phil G" post=397531]I agree. Seaver - Legend - Idol. Class all the way

But Roberto hero. His life is part of the reading series I use in my classroom[/quote]

Clemente was a really intense, sometimes difficult man. Although he was near the top of the league nearly every season in batting average, he was rebuffed when he asked for a salary of $100,000 which was the benchmark of the very best players in the game.

Pittsburgh management turned him down, telling him that only home run hitters made that kind of money. Angered, the next season Clemente swung for the fences and hit 29 homeruns, I believe. He got his 100K even though his batting average plummeted to .317

If you hit a single to right field vs. the Pirates, you had better not jog to first. Clemente had a cannon of an arm and accurate to, and could gun you down if you were lazy. Zame as if you rounded first too widely.

I was at Shea as a kid when they were filming shots for the movie the Odd COuple, before a Mets game. In it, a Pittsburgh player was supposed to hit into a triple play. They chose Clemente, and he agreed, until the found out how much Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon were being paid to star in the movie, and asked for more money.

No one was aware of CLmente's charity though, and it wasn't until his plane disappeared bringing relief supplies to Nicaraugua that they became well known. I think he ended with exactly 3000 hits, the 3000th coming against the Mets I blieve.
 
311 Wins , over 3000 Strikeouts and 2.86 ERA .. Not many will ever get to that Level again in Baseball . When Seaver pitched you expected him to go 9 or , 10 whatever it took . Keith Hernandez said ,” I had the honor of hitting Unsuccessfully against Tom Seaver for many years .” Hank Aaron said , “ he was the Best Pitcher I ever faced .”
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=397550][quote="Phil G" post=397531]I agree. Seaver - Legend - Idol. Class all the way

But Roberto hero. His life is part of the reading series I use in my classroom[/quote]

Clemente was a really intense, sometimes difficult man. Although he was near the top of the league nearly every season in batting average, he was rebuffed when he asked for a salary of $100,000 which was the benchmark of the very best players in the game.

Pittsburgh management turned him down, telling him that only home run hitters made that kind of money. Angered, the next season Clemente swung for the fences and hit 29 homeruns, I believe. He got his 100K even though his batting average plummeted to .317

If you hit a single to right field vs. the Pirates, you had better not jog to first. Clemente had a cannon of an arm and accurate to, and could gun you down if you were lazy. Zame as if you rounded first too widely.

I was at Shea as a kid when they were filming shots for the movie the Odd COuple, before a Mets game. In it, a Pittsburgh player was supposed to hit into a triple play. They chose Clemente, and he agreed, until the found out how much Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon were being paid to star in the movie, and asked for more money.

No one was aware of CLmente's charity though, and it wasn't until his plane disappeared bringing relief supplies to Nicaraugua that they became well known. I think he ended with exactly 3000 hits, the 3000th coming against the Mets I blieve.[/quote]

A double off Jon Matlack
 
Beast, please don't change the name of the rotunda at Citifield. It is named after a real hero who I used to hound for autographs as he left the players gate at Ebbets Field.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=397590]Beast, please don't change the name of the rotunda at Citifield. It is named after a real hero who I used to hound for autographs as he left the players gate at Ebbets Field.[/quote]
Didn't realize Beast had that much power. :silly:
 
[quote="bamafan" post=397605][quote="fuchsia" post=397590]Beast, please don't change the name of the rotunda at Citifield. It is named after a real hero who I used to hound for autographs as he left the players gate at Ebbets Field.[/quote]
Didn't realize Beast had that much power. :silly:[/quote]

I heard the last person who doubted Beast's power was found floating in Jamaica Bay.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=397608][quote="bamafan" post=397605][quote="fuchsia" post=397590]Beast, please don't change the name of the rotunda at Citifield. It is named after a real hero who I used to hound for autographs as he left the players gate at Ebbets Field.[/quote]
Didn't realize Beast had that much power. :silly:[/quote]

I heard the last person who doubted Beast's power was found floating in Jamaica Bay.[/quote]
Well think I'm pretty safe at least until after the election. :sick:
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=397590]Beast, please don't change the name of the rotunda at Citifield. It is named after a real hero who I used to hound for autographs as he left the players gate at Ebbets Field.[/quote]

Love Jackie Robinson. Wouldn't mind if the moved a museum near where the Mets HOF is located. However, it is the home of the Mets, and most Mets fans feel it's Fred WIlpon's decision as a Dodger's fan to build a stadium like Ebbets Field and honor Jackie Robinson in the rotunda. JR breaking the color barrier transcended sports, but ...he wasn't a Met. And as Yogi Berra used to insist, computer enhanced photgraphy proved he was out at the plate in his attempt to steal home in the World Series.
 
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[quote="bamafan" post=397618][quote="L J S A" post=397608][quote="bamafan" post=397605][quote="fuchsia" post=397590]Beast, please don't change the name of the rotunda at Citifield. It is named after a real hero who I used to hound for autographs as he left the players gate at Ebbets Field.[/quote]
Didn't realize Beast had that much power. :silly:[/quote]

I heard the last person who doubted Beast's power was found floating in Jamaica Bay.[/quote]
Well think I'm pretty safe at least until after the election. :sick:[/quote]

It depends whether you are in a swing state or not.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=397648]Definitely safe.[/quote]

If you established residency in FL, we may have a problem here, friend. It's only business though.
 
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