RIP Hank Aaron

[beast of the east]

Top 5 ever
1. Ruth
2. Gehrig
3. DiMAggio
4. Cobb
5. Mays

 

[beast of the east]

Amazingly Aaron only won one MVP award , but for 19 straight years from 1955-1973  the lowest he finished in the MVP voting was 17th. With an average finish about 7.5. Incredible consistency.

Berra had similar MVP voting, and he won 2 or 3.  DiMaggio also similar MVP voting..

 

[Red Drum]

Let's keep it at basketball.

 

[NCJohnnie]

Jeff Smith wrote:

Let's keep it at basketball.

This is a thread that by it's title is obviously about baseball which is well within site rules. If you're not interested in it, feel free to skip it, but many posters are interested. 

 

[Andrew]

Sadly Aaron was finishing his career just as I started to watch baseball. I think it is fair to say that Aaron's sterngth was in his consistency and longevity. He was a tremendous talent and a wonderful human being. I dont like to rank players from different eras as it is really hard to compare. Clearly Aaron was one of the greats of his time. 

I started playing baseball as a six year old in the mid 70's. I played a little bit of the old version of stickball but more of the stickball in a school yard with a painted strike zone and often a tennis ball. Baseball is my favorite sport and the sport that I was by far the best at, particularly hitting a ball. It was such an incredible joy that I miss greatly now that I am older. Even though my son is now 17 and stopped playing baseball to be a more competitive runner, I would still go to a batting cage with him on occasion. I hope I can continue to do so a little longer. Its something you never forget how to do although it sure gets harder with age.

My son still kept score at most of the games we attended before the pandemic and I did so for many years at his games. I miss being able to go to CitiField more than anything else that the pandemic has taken away from us. Its not the same as going to Shea Stadium as a kid in terms of excitement but it is always a treasure to go to the stadium particularly on a nice day. I consider basball to be the chess of professional sports.

 

[NCJohnnie]

[URL]https://www.mlb.com/news/hank-aaron-willie-mays-friends-nearly-teammates[/URL]]The thing that stopped Aaron-Mays OF? $50 (mlb.com)[/url]

Good read about how close Mays & Aaron came to being Giant teammates at the beginning of Aaron's career. I do recall reading about this several years ago (probably in an Aaron bio) but had forgotten it. 

 

[monte]

[attachment=1863]2FC0582D-C3B6-45F5-BBE3-B4C2B2C0B472.jpeg[/attachment]

I've got 5 of these oversized 1970 baseball cards. Kind of eerie that 3 of the 5 greats died in the last 6 months. 

 

[mjmaherjr]

[attachment=1863]2FC0582D-C3B6-45F5-BBE3-B4C2B2C0B472.jpeg[/attachment]

I've got 5 of these oversized 1970 baseball cards. Kind of eerie that 3 of the 5 greats died in the last 6 months. 

I definitley want to see these next time we hang

 

[beast of the east]

[attachment=1863]2FC0582D-C3B6-45F5-BBE3-B4C2B2C0B472.jpeg[/attachment]

I've got 5 of these oversized 1970 baseball cards. Kind of eerie that 3 of the 5 greats died in the last 6 months. 

I definitley want to see these next time we hang

How big were the sticks of gum?

 

[SJUNC]

Amazingly Aaron only won one MVP award , but for 19 straight years from 1955-1973  the lowest he finished in the MVP voting was 17th. With an average finish about 7.5. Incredible consistency.

Berra had similar MVP voting, and he won 2 or 3.  DiMaggio also similar MVP voting..

Both were obviously great players and not knocking their careers at all, but Dimaggios body broke down and he was retired at 36 playing 13 seasons. Berra's career is incredible including a seven year stretch where he was never lower than fourth in MVP voting and won it three times and he had 15 straight years where he finished at least 29th in MVP voting. Not sure either career diminishes Aarons accomplishments or discredits my statement.
 

 

[beast of the east]

Amazingly Aaron only won one MVP award , but for 19 straight years from 1955-1973  the lowest he finished in the MVP voting was 17th. With an average finish about 7.5. Incredible consistency.

Berra had similar MVP voting, and he won 2 or 3.  DiMaggio also similar MVP voting..

Both were obviously great players and not knocking their careers at all, but Dimaggios body broke down and he was retired at 36 playing 13 seasons. Berra's career is incredible including a seven year stretch where he was never lower than fourth in MVP voting and won it three times and he had 15 straight years where he finished at least 29th in MVP voting. Not sure either career diminishes Aarons accomplishments or discredits my statement.

 

Don't misinterpret that. Aarron had a great career.   Longevity is hard to control.   Your body breaks down when it breaks down.   Just pointing out that other superstars also figured in MVP voting season after season.   DiMaggio payed on great teams, but it has been said that he felt it his personal responsibility to win a world series every season, and he often came up big in big situations.   There is a photo of him in the world series racing for home plate with the ball on the way.  The catcher moved up the line a few feet and the ball and DiMaggio was going to arrive at about the same moment, and an inevitable collsion to take place, which was common back then as a way to play the game.   The catcher crouched a little to brace for the impact, and DiMaggio, in an athletic maneuver seen sometimes today only in football went airborne over the catcher's shoulder and swiped home plate with an outstretched arm.   

Certainly there have been fantastic players that hardly played in the post season.   Banks was one who never did.  Aaron made the playoffs in 1969, but only one WS in 1957.  Mays played in 3, I believe 51, 54, and 73 (as a bit player with the Mets).   In baseball, near perfection only gets you so far.   Steve Carlton went 27-10 for the phillies one season, and the Phillies only won 27 other games.   Still, in my opinion the guys who went to the series year after year and who were the best players on their teams, deserve a measure of credit for pplaying winning baseball.   That's not to discount the enormous talent the Yankees had.

 

[SJUNC]

Unfortunately in those days you couldn't pick your team or teammates, so not to discredit those who won at all but real hard to control. Certainly Aaron's efforts were good enough to win more than one World Series if he had the teammates to help him get there.

 

[beast of the east]

Unfortunately in those days you couldn't pick your team or teammates, so not to discredit those who won at all but real hard to control. Certainly Aaron's efforts were good enough to win more than one World Series if he had the teammates to help him get there.


 

No question, but at the same time you cannot diminish the guys who won World championships, especially the guys whose superlative careers got them there.   We can specualte all day how well Banks, Aaron, Kiner, or any number of HOF players would have done on better teams - all with good reasons based on their accomplishments.  However, in all of sports, winning beats everything else, and as much as I am not a fan of the Yankees, they dominated baseball for most of the 20th century.    In an era of free agency, other franchises have tried to stack teams with talent, and most failed to win champsionships.  (The Atlanta Braves, who won something like 13 straight divisional titles are a good example).   The Yankees have won 27 world championships, the Cardinals 11.    The Lakers and Celtics have dominated basketball in the modern era, and you have to acknowledge that those teams won, because objectively that's all there is.

 

[beast of the east]

In this discussion of winners, for me at least, as dislikeable as Pete Rose was, he elevated just about every team he was on to greater heights.   When the Mets signed George Foster, the outspoken Rose said something very akin to, "The Mets are not getting what they are paying for.  It was never Foster.  It was Perez, or Bench, or Morgan, of myself.   Those were the guys who made us winners, never Foster."

As a poor man's second, DAvid Cone comes to mind, for pitching huge in big games for different teams.   David Wells had that knack.  And as a Mets fan, Keith Hernandez most definitely taught the Mets how to win, and I never knew just how good he was until he got here.

 

[SJUNC]

Unfortunately in those days you couldn't pick your team or teammates, so not to discredit those who won at all but real hard to control. Certainly Aaron's efforts were good enough to win more than one World Series if he had the teammates to help him get there.



 

No question, but at the same time you cannot diminish the guys who won World championships, especially the guys whose superlative careers got them there.   We can specualte all day how well Banks, Aaron, Kiner, or any number of HOF players would have done on better teams - all with good reasons based on their accomplishments.  However, in all of sports, winning beats everything else, and as much as I am not a fan of the Yankees, they dominated baseball for most of the 20th century.    In an era of free agency, other franchises have tried to stack teams with talent, and most failed to win champsionships.  (The Atlanta Braves, who won something like 13 straight divisional titles are a good example).   The Yankees have won 27 world championships, the Cardinals 11.    The Lakers and Celtics have dominated basketball in the modern era, and you have to acknowledge that those teams won, because objectively that's all there is.

I didn't diminish anyone. The whole conversation started with your response to my comment about Aaron which seemed to be diminishing his accomplishment.

I am well aware of what a winner is because as a Mets, Jets, Ranger, Knick and SJU fan, it's always someone else.
 

 

[beast of the east]

Unfortunately in those days you couldn't pick your team or teammates, so not to discredit those who won at all but real hard to control. Certainly Aaron's efforts were good enough to win more than one World Series if he had the teammates to help him get there.




 

No question, but at the same time you cannot diminish the guys who won World championships, especially the guys whose superlative careers got them there.   We can specualte all day how well Banks, Aaron, Kiner, or any number of HOF players would have done on better teams - all with good reasons based on their accomplishments.  However, in all of sports, winning beats everything else, and as much as I am not a fan of the Yankees, they dominated baseball for most of the 20th century.    In an era of free agency, other franchises have tried to stack teams with talent, and most failed to win champsionships.  (The Atlanta Braves, who won something like 13 straight divisional titles are a good example).   The Yankees have won 27 world championships, the Cardinals 11.    The Lakers and Celtics have dominated basketball in the modern era, and you have to acknowledge that those teams won, because objectively that's all there is.

I didn't diminish anyone. The whole conversation started with your response to my comment about Aaron which seemed to be diminishing his accomplishment.

I am well aware of what a winner is because as a Mets, Jets, Ranger, Knick and SJU fan, it's always someone else.

 

Which I refuted.   But as comparison, besides the 1957 the other playoff year was 1969.  To my recollection, it was Orlando Cepeda who was more of a leader on that team.  Cepeda had a key role in taking 2 other franchisesthree times to the WS as a key player (1962 Giants, 1967 and 1968 Cardinals).   There are certain players who historically have done that, and its difficult to argue with the guys who were key parts of multiple franchises winning.   As far as I'm concerned, it's not jsut luck, it's the ability to play big in big situations.    Banks and Kiner played on mostly horrible teams.   Aaron had Matthews for awhile, Rico Carty was a damned good hitter also, but have difficulty remembering his pitchers after the great Warren Spahn.

 

[SJUNC]

Unfortunately in those days you couldn't pick your team or teammates, so not to discredit those who won at all but real hard to control. Certainly Aaron's efforts were good enough to win more than one World Series if he had the teammates to help him get there.







 

No question, but at the same time you cannot diminish the guys who won World championships, especially the guys whose superlative careers got them there.   We can specualte all day how well Banks, Aaron, Kiner, or any number of HOF players would have done on better teams - all with good reasons based on their accomplishments.  However, in all of sports, winning beats everything else, and as much as I am not a fan of the Yankees, they dominated baseball for most of the 20th century.    In an era of free agency, other franchises have tried to stack teams with talent, and most failed to win champsionships.  (The Atlanta Braves, who won something like 13 straight divisional titles are a good example).   The Yankees have won 27 world championships, the Cardinals 11.    The Lakers and Celtics have dominated basketball in the modern era, and you have to acknowledge that those teams won, because objectively that's all there is.

I didn't diminish anyone. The whole conversation started with your response to my comment about Aaron which seemed to be diminishing his accomplishment.

I am well aware of what a winner is because as a Mets, Jets, Ranger, Knick and SJU fan, it's always someone else.




 

Which I refuted.   But as comparison, besides the 1957 the other playoff year was 1969.  To my recollection, it was Orlando Cepeda who was more of a leader on that team.  Cepeda had a key role in taking 2 other franchisesthree times to the WS as a key player (1962 Giants, 1967 and 1968 Cardinals).   There are certain players who historically have done that, and its difficult to argue with the guys who were key parts of multiple franchises winning.   As far as I'm concerned, it's not jsut luck, it's the ability to play big in big situations.    Banks and Kiner played on mostly horrible teams.   Aaron had Matthews for awhile, Rico Carty was a damned good hitter also, but have difficulty remembering his pitchers after the great Warren Spahn

I will take this post season performence. For some reason you want to discount Aaron's career, so I will just agree to disagree with you.

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/GqY9Q
 

 

[ctstorm]

Amazingly Aaron only won one MVP award , but for 19 straight years from 1955-1973  the lowest he finished in the MVP voting was 17th. With an average finish about 7.5. Incredible consistency.

Berra had similar MVP voting, and he won 2 or 3.  DiMaggio also similar MVP voting..

Both were obviously great players and not knocking their careers at all, but Dimaggios body broke down and he was retired at 36 playing 13 seasons. Berra's career is incredible including a seven year stretch where he was never lower than fourth in MVP voting and won it three times and he had 15 straight years where he finished at least 29th in MVP voting. Not sure either career diminishes Aarons accomplishments or discredits my statement.


 

Don't misinterpret that. Aarron had a great career.   Longevity is hard to control.   Your body breaks down when it breaks down.   Just pointing out that other superstars also figured in MVP voting season after season.   DiMaggio payed on great teams, but it has been said that he felt it his personal responsibility to win a world series every season, and he often came up big in big situations.   There is a photo of him in the world series racing for home plate with the ball on the way.  The catcher moved up the line a few feet and the ball and DiMaggio was going to arrive at about the same moment, and an inevitable collsion to take place, which was common back then as a way to play the game.   The catcher crouched a little to brace for the impact, and DiMaggio, in an athletic maneuver seen sometimes today only in football went airborne over the catcher's shoulder and swiped home plate with an outstretched arm.   

Certainly there have been fantastic players that hardly played in the post season.   Banks was one who never did.  Aaron made the playoffs in 1969, but only one WS in 1957.  Mays played in 3, I believe 51, 54, and 73 (as a bit player with the Mets).   In baseball, near perfection only gets you so far.   Steve Carlton went 27-10 for the phillies one season, and the Phillies only won 27 other games.   Still, in my opinion the guys who went to the series year after year and who were the best players on their teams, deserve a measure of credit for pplaying winning baseball.   That's not to discount the enormous talent the Yankees had.

1958 also, when the Yankees got their revenge for 1957. 

 

[fuchsia]

 Aaron had Matthews for awhile, Rico Carty was a damned good hitter also, but have difficulty remembering his pitchers after the great Warren Spahn.

Bob Buhl and Lew Burdette.

 

[monte]

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/n...spns-a-rod-compare-himself-to-hank-aaron/amp/[/URL]