Recruiting to Date

R

redmannorth

Moderator
Staff member
2023 $upporter Moderator
There has been a ton of bitching and moaning on this site about recruiting in the last 4.5 years , but let’s step back and look at the facts. The facts are that since April 1, 2015 Chris and Matt have brought in 29 players to SJU.
What is indesputable is that Matt , and i emphasize Matt, is our only recruiter.
He has brought in 15 transfers, which is absolutely fantastic. In that group of 15 there were 3 jucos. Bringing in high level jucos like Bashir, LJ and Mack is again superb as they are immediately ready to play and do contribute in a major way from day 1.
He has brought in 14 high school players the majority of which were ranked 4 stars.
It seems to me that Matt can recruit all around at the highest level. Let’s have a winning season this year and hopefully dance and I firmly believe that Matt will be able to take high school recruiting to an even greater level.
Let us never forget that 2 weeks ago his wife gave birth to their first child and a few days later he got a commitment from a juco aa which was immediately followed up by a high level transfer in Steere.
Lucky we are to have Matt.
 
Thanks North. But why let the facts get in the way of bitching and complaining?
 
I am extremely happy with the recruiting. Our recruiting has gotten better each season...so much so that earlier recruits have left to find more playing time.

I love the transfer u designation. Even losing Ponds and Clark after the season, next year will mark the first of hopefully many seasons we have continuity. That's how good programs keep it rolling.
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=306314]There has been a ton of bitching and moaning on this site about recruiting in the last 4.5 years , but let’s step back and look at the facts. The facts are that since April 1, 2015 Chris and Matt have brought in 29 players to SJU.
What is indesputable is that Matt , and i emphasize Matt, is our only recruiter.
He has brought in 15 transfers, which is absolutely fantastic. In that group of 15 there were 3 jucos. Bringing in high level jucos like Bashir, LJ and Mack is again superb as they are immediately ready to play and do contribute in a major way from day 1.
He has brought in 14 high school players the majority of which were ranked 4 stars.
It seems to me that Matt can recruit all around at the highest level. Let’s have a winning season this year and hopefully dance and I firmly believe that Matt will be able to take high school recruiting to an even greater level.
Let us never forget that 2 weeks ago his wife gave birth to their first child and a few days later he got a commitment from a juco aa which was immediately followed up by a high level transfer in Steere.
Lucky we are to have Matt.[/quote]

Totally agree. The cupboard was bare from a talent perspective/character perspective. I completely discount year 1. The strides the program has made have been very solid. Lets continue the up swing, continue the positive momentum and we can get to the point of being consistently very good. It all starts with recruiting!!!!
 
[quote="Marillac" post=306322]I am extremely happy with the recruiting. Our recruiting has gotten better each season...so much so that earlier recruits have left to find more playing time.

I love the transfer u designation. Even losing Ponds and Clark after the season, next year will mark the first of hopefully many seasons we have continuity. That's how good programs keep it rolling.[/quote]

Like I said before, Huggins won a lot of games with JC and other transfers over the years. He built that ship multiple times with transfers.
 
I love the great job we have done with the transfer route. I just wish we did a little better job getting and retaining high school players.

According to ESPN, Mullin and staff have gotten 13 commits from 2015-2017. Excluding the 2018 class for a moment.

13 commits. And 3 of those players actually stayed at St. John's. Ponds and Trimble (so far) and then Bashir Ahmed.

Look at this wasteland of recruits that we have that just never really stuck with it here. Mussini, Yankuba Sima, Yakwe, Lovett, Darien Williams, Freudenberg, Diakite, Sidney Wilson, i mean even Zach Brown.

I like the product we have on the floor right now and I believe Matt will keep us afloat with his ability to snag JUCOs and transfers. But damn I wish I had faith the staff could get a couple of high level HS recruits. Thank god for Shamorie, he's the only one.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=306322]I am extremely happy with the recruiting. Our recruiting has gotten better each season...so much so that earlier recruits have left to find more playing time.

I love the transfer u designation. Even losing Ponds and Clark after the season, next year will mark the first of hopefully many seasons we have continuity. That's how good programs keep it rolling.[/quote]

Not sure where this pom pom moment is coming from but gushing over getting two 4 star players via the transfer route who have had spotty longevity records at prior schools does not spell continuity but rather our modus operandi when we fail to land or maintain our own 4 star recuits.
Good for you if you are extremely happy with our recruiting but the transfer U designation has a double edged sword attached to that reputation. It may put doubts in the minds of high school recruits who see the staff favoring transfer players rather than giving talented 4 star players key roles from day one. Mullin's recent comments seem to back that philosophy. Were you extremely happy with this past season's recruiting of prep players? One is a 4 star and the other two are 3 star. Other than garbage time, has any shown you anything to give you good vibes for the approaching Big East games? Do you see a Kris Monroe, Jimmy Nichols, A.J. Reeves or David Duke among our freshmen? Those are the Providence freshmen that played key roles in defeating B.C. tonight.
We fortunately have a talented FIVE in year FOUR but with a huge flaw on the front line. That's not continuity. When 5TH year Marvin Clark shows he has developed a turn around jumper around the key or does more than put up 3 point shots we may have a chance with the more talented teams coming up.
Not having signed one of our original top 100 targets makes you happy with our recruiting?
North points to a disturbing fact and that is that this is Matt's team and not Mullin's. None of the three amigos from California have credit for a top recruit to this date.
I think we will loose 4 to 5 players by April. Just bringing in 4 star transfers doesn't guarantee anything at St. John's as North indirectly points out since many have left the program and our record has been in the. 500 range with all the great recruiting you celebrate.
Just presenting the minority point of view here.;)
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=306337][quote="Marillac" post=306322]I am extremely happy with the recruiting. Our recruiting has gotten better each season...so much so that earlier recruits have left to find more playing time.

I love the transfer u designation. Even losing Ponds and Clark after the season, next year will mark the first of hopefully many seasons we have continuity. That's how good programs keep it rolling.[/quote]

Not sure where this pom pom moment is coming from but gushing over getting two 4 star players via the transfer route who have had spotty longevity records at prior schools does not spell continuity but rather our modus operandi when we fail to land or maintain our own 4 star recuits.
Good for you if you are extremely happy with our recruiting but the transfer U designation has a double edged sword attached to that reputation. It may put doubts in the minds of high school recruits who see the staff favoring transfer players rather than giving talented 4 star players key roles from day one. Mullin's recent comments seem to back that philosophy. Were you extremely happy with this past season's recruiting of prep players? One is a 4 star and the other two are 3 star. Other than garbage time, has any shown you anything to give you good vibes for the approaching Big East games? Do you see a Kris Monroe, Jimmy Nichols, A.J. Reeves or David Duke among our freshmen? Those are the Providence freshmen that played key roles in defeating B.C. tonight.
We fortunately have a talented FIVE in year FOUR but with a huge flaw on the front line. That's not continuity. When 5TH year Marvin Clark shows he has developed a turn around jumper around the key or does more than put up 3 point shots we may have a chance with the more talented teams coming up.
Not having signed one of our original top 100 targets makes you happy with our recruiting?
North points to a disturbing fact and that is that this is Matt's team and not Mullin's. None of the three amigos from California have credit for a top recruit to this date.
I think we will loose 4 to 5 players by April. Just bringing in 4 star transfers doesn't guarantee anything at St. John's as North indirectly points out since many have left the program and our record has been in the. 500 range with all the great recruiting you celebrate.
Just presenting the minority point of view here.;)[/quote]

Minority point of view? Not sure it is.

BTW-I remember being told repeatedly after the Williams, Roberts and Earlington signings that this was evidence the staff was recruiting well because these were solid back up plans to missing on Muhammad, Naz Reid, Moses Brown etc...How is that working out?

One last thing, y'all do realize that this "strategy" has yielded a 3 year record of 38-60/12-42. Last year alone this great recruiting produced a 4-14 league record with 3 losses combined to DePaul and Georgetown...in other words exactly where is the immense success that should be applauded? The 7-0 start is nice, but it is against a schedule softer than Charmin with a rotation of barely 7 guys even against the bad teams. And this is the fruit of all that "great recruiting." And if the counter argument to this is "he needed time to build a roster" then why can't the counter to that be maybe "he chose the wrong strategy and maybe that is why it is taking him so long." No, not reasonable?

Honest question for some of you, with those same "facts" do you honestly think you would be defending any other SJU coach as hard as you do if their name was NOT "Chris Mullin?"

Look if some on this board want to always keep things positive especially since the team is 7-0, then why do those same people insist on starting threads on something that has CLEARLY been a weakness of this program and in essence "poke the bear."
 
love the talent on the roster this year very happy with the transfer game which I think went from backup plan to virtually our main plan. Dont think our HS recruiting has been good at all other than Ponds and Uconn recruiting this year on the HS level is for me at least proving we aren't cutting it on the HS level
 
Admittedly it’s been done in an unorthodox way but the talent level of this team compared to when Mullin took over is immensely better. The only knock I have is not getting another big from somewhere. I really don’t care how we bring talent in here as long as we do. This recruiting cycle we have signed Steere and Mack with Wright and Caraher already on board for next season. The only problem was not getting another big fir this season. Otherwise, they have been bringing talent in here.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=306343]love the talent on the roster this year very happy with the transfer game which I think went from backup plan to virtually our main plan. Dont think our HS recruiting has been good at all other than Ponds and Uconn recruiting this year on the HS level is for me at least proving we aren't cutting it on the HS level[/quote]

And that is perfectly reasonable.

But I have never seen a situation where a coach with such a poor overall record thru 3 years has fans of that program repeatedly tell other fans of that program that they can't understand how people can complain about the recruiting.

I just don't understand how people can credit the staff for collecting all of this supposedly "great talent" and then excuse the overall horrid record because they have been in an interminable "rebuild." It's almost as if it's "illegal" on this board to draw a direct parallel between the recruiting strategy and the overall record. "No it can't be it's because Lavin left the roster bare.."
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=306347]Admittedly it’s been done in an unorthodox way but the talent level of this team compared to when Mullin took over is immensely better. The only knock I have is not getting another big from somewhere. I really don’t care how we bring talent in here as long as we do. This recruiting cycle we have signed Steere and Mack with Wright and Caraher already on board for next season. The only problem was not getting another big fir this season. Otherwise, they have been bringing talent in here.[/quote]

So just to be clear on this, the excuse for Mullin's early struggles are that he inherited nothing. But he deserves immense credit because in his 4th year the talent level is obviously better...than nothing.

I don't measure success by improving on 1-17, considering you can't go anywhere but up. Was Norm Roberts last roster better than what he inherited from Jarvis? Immeasurably, so what? That is not the measure.

Just answer one question and if your answer is yes then I will accept that. Honest question.

Are you confident the current recruiting strategy will get the type of kids that can consistently lift this program to the type of level we all thought it could be when Mullin was hired? Meaning consistent NCAA team and consistently at the level of the top BE teams including Villanova? If your honest answer is YES then fine. But if it is not then you can at least understand the skepticism some of us have. That is all.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=306347]Admittedly it’s been done in an unorthodox way but the talent level of this team compared to when Mullin took over is immensely better. The only knock I have is not getting another big from somewhere. I really don’t care how we bring talent in here as long as we do. This recruiting cycle we have signed Steere and Mack with Wright and Caraher already on board for next season. The only problem was not getting another big fir this season. Otherwise, they have been bringing talent in here.[/quote]

Until this staff shows that they can attract bigs we will always be at a disadvantage in the front court. Tonight I watched Marquette play UTEP. UTEP has a 6''9, 270lb freshman, Efe Odigie who gave Marquette fits. When Matt, Chris or Santa's helpers on this team surprise us with that type of 3 star freshman I'll be impressed. While a Steere is a nice fall back to losing Kofi, it would have been more impressive to land a NY center or a Precious.
 
In all fairness, the first year record of 8-24 gets thrown out. He had to correct the unbalanced classes that the previous two coaches created. Of course, this old problem has been lost on a few of the expert posters.

He's 37-36 over the past two plus seasons with his players. His team's RPI has improved from year to year.

It seems that it is bothering some fans that he has not lost this season, but show a little patience. This team will not be going undefeated.

Mullin will be judged by the record he compiles by the end of year four. If he continues to show progress, there is little doubt that he will be continue be over analyzed into year five.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=306343]love the talent on the roster this year very happy with the transfer game which I think went from backup plan to virtually our main plan. Dont think our HS recruiting has been good at all other than Ponds and Uconn recruiting this year on the HS level is for me at least proving we aren't cutting it on the HS level[/quote]

Tony Chiles originally recruited Shamorie Ponds and I saw him at his games a Jeff before this staff arrived. Once Lavin and company got the boot Providence got on him like bees to honey. We had to work pretty hard to get him.
You're right that other than Ponds we have basically struck out with traditional high school recruits where player development is a main attraction along with playing time. The current fate of our 3 freshmen doesn't give many high recruits much hope if they choose St. John's regardless of whether they are a 4 star like Williams who is relegated to garbage time. We aren't "recruiting" transfers. We are negotiating a transfer deal based on playing time......usually at the expense of our freshmen. Ergo, they leave. I also don't think it is a strategy at all but a fallback to a failed recruiting effort that is mostly based on players transferring out.
That's the only continuity I see.
 
Last edited:
[quote="fordham96" post=306348][quote="mjmaherjr" post=306343]love the talent on the roster this year very happy with the transfer game which I think went from backup plan to virtually our main plan. Dont think our HS recruiting has been good at all other than Ponds and Uconn recruiting this year on the HS level is for me at least proving we aren't cutting it on the HS level[/quote]

And that is perfectly reasonable.

But I have never seen a situation where a coach with such a poor overall record thru 3 years has fans of that program repeatedly tell other fans of that program that they can't understand how people can complain about the recruiting.

I just don't understand how people can credit the staff for collecting all of this supposedly "great talent" and then excuse the overall horrid record because they have been in an interminable "rebuild." It's almost as if it's "illegal" on this board to draw a direct parallel between the recruiting strategy and the overall record. "No it can't be it's because Lavin left the roster bare.."[/quote] agreed and your point the other day when you factor in 2 sitting transfers and 3 freshman basically not contributing anything that to me Is alarming

But if we get by and end up doing really well ( hopefully no more injuries ) and assuming if we lose Ponds and Heron but next year via transfers etc and have a good year too I'll start getting more comfortable.

Would still like to see Uconn type effort on the HS level
 
[quote="fordham96" post=306341][quote="Class of 72" post=306337][quote="Marillac" post=306322]I am extremely happy with the recruiting. Our recruiting has gotten better each season...so much so that earlier recruits have left to find more playing time.

I love the transfer u designation. Even losing Ponds and Clark after the season, next year will mark the first of hopefully many seasons we have continuity. That's how good programs keep it rolling.[/quote]

Not sure where this pom pom moment is coming from but gushing over getting two 4 star players via the transfer route who have had spotty longevity records at prior schools does not spell continuity but rather our modus operandi when we fail to land or maintain our own 4 star recuits.
Good for you if you are extremely happy with our recruiting but the transfer U designation has a double edged sword attached to that reputation. It may put doubts in the minds of high school recruits who see the staff favoring transfer players rather than giving talented 4 star players key roles from day one. Mullin's recent comments seem to back that philosophy. Were you extremely happy with this past season's recruiting of prep players? One is a 4 star and the other two are 3 star. Other than garbage time, has any shown you anything to give you good vibes for the approaching Big East games? Do you see a Kris Monroe, Jimmy Nichols, A.J. Reeves or David Duke among our freshmen? Those are the Providence freshmen that played key roles in defeating B.C. tonight.
We fortunately have a talented FIVE in year FOUR but with a huge flaw on the front line. That's not continuity. When 5TH year Marvin Clark shows he has developed a turn around jumper around the key or does more than put up 3 point shots we may have a chance with the more talented teams coming up.
Not having signed one of our original top 100 targets makes you happy with our recruiting?
North points to a disturbing fact and that is that this is Matt's team and not Mullin's. None of the three amigos from California have credit for a top recruit to this date.
I think we will loose 4 to 5 players by April. Just bringing in 4 star transfers doesn't guarantee anything at St. John's as North indirectly points out since many have left the program and our record has been in the. 500 range with all the great recruiting you celebrate.
Just presenting the minority point of view here.;)[/quote]

Minority point of view? Not sure it is.

BTW-I remember being told repeatedly after the Williams, Roberts and Earlington signings that this was evidence the staff was recruiting well because these were solid back up plans to missing on Muhammad, Naz Reid, Moses Brown etc...How is that working out?

One last thing, y'all do realize that this "strategy" has yielded a 3 year record of 38-60/12-42. Last year alone this great recruiting produced a 4-14 league record with 3 losses combined to DePaul and Georgetown...in other words exactly where is the immense success that should be applauded? The 7-0 start is nice, but it is against a schedule softer than Charmin with a rotation of barely 7 guys even against the bad teams. And this is the fruit of all that "great recruiting." And if the counter argument to this is "he needed time to build a roster" then why can't the counter to that be maybe "he chose the wrong strategy and maybe that is why it is taking him so long." No, not reasonable?

Honest question for some of you, with those same "facts" do you honestly think you would be defending any other SJU coach as hard as you do if their name was NOT "Chris Mullin?"

Look if some on this board want to always keep things positive especially since the team is 7-0, then why do those same people insist on starting threads on something that has CLEARLY been a weakness of this program and in essence "provoke the annoying pussy."[/quote]

Fixed it for you.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=306351][quote="Mean Gene" post=306347]Admittedly it’s been done in an unorthodox way but the talent level of this team compared to when Mullin took over is immensely better. The only knock I have is not getting another big from somewhere. I really don’t care how we bring talent in here as long as we do. This recruiting cycle we have signed Steere and Mack with Wright and Caraher already on board for next season. The only problem was not getting another big fir this season. Otherwise, they have been bringing talent in here.[/quote]

Until this staff shows that they can attract bigs we will always be at a disadvantage in the front court. Tonight I watched Marquette play UTEP. UTEP has a 6''9, 270lb freshman, Efe Odigie who gave Marquette fits. When Matt, Chris or Santa's helpers on this team surprise us with that type of 3 star freshman I'll be impressed. While a Steere is a nice fall back to losing Kofi, it would have been more impressive to land a NY center or a Precious.[/quote]

I think that’s kind of an unfair comparison. Efe Odigie is an outlier, the 3* freshman that the big programs didn’t jump after but is game-ready as a frosh at UTEP. Steere by all accounts was. 4* recruit, and has 3 years eligibility from a bigger D1 program. On paper he’s easily a better recruit that Odigie, so I don’t think it’s fair to say grabbing the UTEP kid was a much better job overall. We still have to see how Steere plays. Kid might be a monster out there. Steere is on par as a recruit, and ranked higher as well as the same physical size, not just a nice fall-back. I don’t know if he will pan out like the Utep kid but he isn’t a scrub.

FWIW, I do agree with all who feel we need to land more HS kids and good ones. I’m hoping that it’s a work in progress. I also hope eventually we hire another recruiter which we should already have.
 
Last edited:
Fordham96 wrote: Just answer one question and if your answer is yes then I will accept that. Honest question.

Are you confident the current recruiting strategy will get the type of kids that can consistently lift this program to the type of level we all thought it could be when Mullin was hired? Meaning consistent NCAA team and consistently at the level of the top BE teams including Villanova? If your honest answer is YES then fine. But if it is not then you can at least understand the skepticism some of us have. That is all.

Fordham96, to answer your question to MG, I am cautiously optimistic that after this year, staff will have gotten the program to a point where it can consistently be a top half of BE team vying for an NCAA berth which almost everyone on this board would consider success. If we have an excellent year this year, retain our current players other than Ponds & Heron (especially Simon) and bring at least one key HS recruit, I think program will have gotten a reputation and rhythm where it can be successful going forward. I am not ready to say that transfer U is going to be our only recruiting strategy as opposed to a key part of it, and hope it isn't. But as many have said since the end of last year, this year is key. If we are sitting here next year with only the recruits we have now and a couple of lower level three stars, I will have plenty of doubts. I do believe in giving staff and players the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. It is not a Mullin thing, it is the way I root for all my favorite teams and I did the same when Lavin was here.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top