Prior Coaches. Good, Bad and all else

Mike i agrée with what you said about Lavin but CMA has not been recruiting 2 star players for next years and beyond. Posh is a 3 or 4 star recruit. Cole is a JC AA. That is like getting a top 60 kid, albeit only for 2 years. Moore was not super high ranked as a JC but has great size and skill set and had offers from very good schools. Wusu is currently listed as a 2 star recruit but I believe he will finished higher come next May. But more importantly he has the defensive mindset the coach and staff are looking for and is a big strong guard which fits coach’s game plan. 1 our of 4 recruits is 2 star. I think the staff knows very well what level talent they need to bring in to succeed.
 
[quote="Logen" post=360255][quote="Knight" post=360231]Jarvis was a disgrace. How many forfeited games is he responsible for?[/quote]

We have not had a professional, committed, totally engaged coach since Louie except for two guys who should have remained assistants, Mahoney and Roberts. NONE of the others were “Good” in any meaningful, program building sense. None of them left a legacy that could be built on. IMO, outside of the two aforementioned, they all “stole money.” The other two at least gave honest effort, albeit very futilely. BTW, we have one now; and yes, Monte, I definitely agree results await before declaring his hire a success, but he is a hard working pro in every sense of those words.[/quote]

Much as I hate to admit it, have to agree with you that coach is “a hard working pro in every sense of the word”. I never disputed that. Also mostly agree with your assessment of the other coaches. Really hate the constant ripping of Norm, even to this day. The guy did everything he possibly could to succeed. Lack of effort was not the issue. All things considered, he recruited well and he recruited great kids who represented he program well. IMO time to stop the Norm bashing, it’s uncalled for and classless.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=360265][quote="MCNPA" post=360257]Our big error was not hiring Bob McKillop all those years ago. All will remember the fateful comments that Ron Rutledge made that McKillop was basically too white and couldn’t recruit 125th Street. We probably wouldn’t have been in this scenario many coaching mistakes later.

Bob McKillop? Still winning... he’s got a handful of seasons below third place in his conference since 1989 and figured out how to scout and recruit an nba MVP. Even this year, 30 years after starting at Davidson and in a tougher league, they’re picked near the top of the A-10 polls. Forget Mark Few and Gonzaga. SJU very well could have had the same consistency and things might have been very different. Instead we’ve torn down our program a multitude of times.

Biggest mistake began and ended right there.[/quote]

McKillop is a fine coach. He'd have been a good hire, but I think the biggest mistake we made hiring a coach was hiring Jarvis and not Jay Wright.[/quote]

Yeah that’s another one. I don’t think Wright would have stayed here. I also think McKillop would have really been consistently good at a higher level. Both big losses but McKillop the one that was an easy choice who was primed to stay crest a legacy here.
 
[quote="Monte" post=360276][quote="Logen" post=360255][quote="Knight" post=360231]Jarvis was a disgrace. How many forfeited games is he responsible for?[/quote]

We have not had a professional, committed, totally engaged coach since Louie except for two guys who should have remained assistants, Mahoney and Roberts. NONE of the others were “Good” in any meaningful, program building sense. None of them left a legacy that could be built on. IMO, outside of the two aforementioned, they all “stole money.” The other two at least gave honest effort, albeit very futilely. BTW, we have one now; and yes, Monte, I definitely agree results await before declaring his hire a success, but he is a hard working pro in every sense of those words.[/quote]

Much as I hate to admit it, have to agree with you that coach is “a hard working pro in every sense of the word”. I never disputed that. Also mostly agree with your assessment of the other coaches. Really hate the constant ripping of Norm, even to this day. The guy did everything he possibly could to succeed. Lack of effort was not the issue. All things considered, he recruited well and he recruited great kids who represented he program well. IMO time to stop the Norm bashing, it’s uncalled for and classless.[/quote]

Not many bashing Norm. He was one of the truly good guys. He just didn’t have the chops.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=360281][quote="Monte" post=360276][quote="Logen" post=360255][quote="Knight" post=360231]Jarvis was a disgrace. How many forfeited games is he responsible for?[/quote]

We have not had a professional, committed, totally engaged coach since Louie except for two guys who should have remained assistants, Mahoney and Roberts. NONE of the others were “Good” in any meaningful, program building sense. None of them left a legacy that could be built on. IMO, outside of the two aforementioned, they all “stole money.” The other two at least gave honest effort, albeit very futilely. BTW, we have one now; and yes, Monte, I definitely agree results await before declaring his hire a success, but he is a hard working pro in every sense of those words.[/quote]

Much as I hate to admit it, have to agree with you that coach is “a hard working pro in every sense of the word”. I never disputed that. Also mostly agree with your assessment of the other coaches. Really hate the constant ripping of Norm, even to this day. The guy did everything he possibly could to succeed. Lack of effort was not the issue. All things considered, he recruited well and he recruited great kids who represented he program well. IMO time to stop the Norm bashing, it’s uncalled for and classless.[/quote]

Not many bashing Norm. He was one of the truly good guys. He just didn’t have the chops.[/quote]

Saying "he didn't have the chops" is kinda bashing him. Just sayin'.
 
[quote="Monte" post=360304][quote="MCNPA" post=360281][quote="Monte" post=360276][quote="Logen" post=360255][quote="Knight" post=360231]Jarvis was a disgrace. How many forfeited games is he responsible for?[/quote]

We have not had a professional, committed, totally engaged coach since Louie except for two guys who should have remained assistants, Mahoney and Roberts. NONE of the others were “Good” in any meaningful, program building sense. None of them left a legacy that could be built on. IMO, outside of the two aforementioned, they all “stole money.” The other two at least gave honest effort, albeit very futilely. BTW, we have one now; and yes, Monte, I definitely agree results await before declaring his hire a success, but he is a hard working pro in every sense of those words.[/quote]

Much as I hate to admit it, have to agree with you that coach is “a hard working pro in every sense of the word”. I never disputed that. Also mostly agree with your assessment of the other coaches. Really hate the constant ripping of Norm, even to this day. The guy did everything he possibly could to succeed. Lack of effort was not the issue. All things considered, he recruited well and he recruited great kids who represented he program well. IMO time to stop the Norm bashing, it’s uncalled for and classless.[/quote]

Not many bashing Norm. He was one of the truly good guys. He just didn’t have the chops.[/quote]

Saying "he didn't have the chops" is kinda bashing him. Just sayin'.[/quote]

No, he didn’t have the coaching chops. He couldn’t win. It’s simple. Saying he wasn’t good enough to win at this level I wouldn’t consider bashing, but semantics.
 
Don’t forget where the program was when Norm came aboard,the Pitt scandal, the losing, the bare cubbord. He helped right the ship and Lavin took Norms tteam to the tournament.
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=360271]Mike i agrée with what you said about Lavin but CMA has not been recruiting 2 star players for next years and beyond. Posh is a 3 or 4 star recruit. Cole is a JC AA. That is like getting a top 60 kid, albeit only for 2 years. Moore was not super high ranked as a JC but has great size and skill set and had offers from very good schools. Wusu is currently listed as a 2 star recruit but I believe he will finished higher come next May. But more importantly he has the defensive mindset the coach and staff are looking for and is a big strong guard which fits coach’s game plan. 1 our of 4 recruits is 2 star. I think the staff knows very well what level talent they need to bring in to succeed.[/quote]

Apologies if I worded incorrectly...I meant that he got some 2 star kids to fill the holes and have a team on the court this year which is obviously understandable given that he wasn't left much and didn't have time to recruit the bigger names. He cannot continue to get that type of recruit however that was my point. For 2020 and beyond we really need to get some serious talent. Posh was a great get. But remember we lose Heron and LJ after this year. That leaves us with zero proven scorers. I think Posh can be a good piece, but I don't expect him to have anywhere near the production of those guys. We need several legit recruits in the 2020 or 2021 recruiting cycles or I fear we will stay near the bottom.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=360393][quote="redmannorth" post=360271]Mike i agrée with what you said about Lavin but CMA has not been recruiting 2 star players for next years and beyond. Posh is a 3 or 4 star recruit. Cole is a JC AA. That is like getting a top 60 kid, albeit only for 2 years. Moore was not super high ranked as a JC but has great size and skill set and had offers from very good schools. Wusu is currently listed as a 2 star recruit but I believe he will finished higher come next May. But more importantly he has the defensive mindset the coach and staff are looking for and is a big strong guard which fits coach’s game plan. 1 our of 4 recruits is 2 star. I think the staff knows very well what level talent they need to bring in to succeed.[/quote]

Apologies if I worded incorrectly...I meant that he got some 2 star kids to fill the holes and have a team on the court this year which is obviously understandable given that he wasn't left much and didn't have time to recruit the bigger names. He cannot continue to get that type of recruit however that was my point. For 2020 and beyond we really need to get some serious talent. Posh was a great get. But remember we lose Heron and LJ after this year. That leaves us with zero proven scorers. I think Posh can be a good piece, but I don't expect him to have anywhere near the production of those guys. We need several legit recruits in the 2020 or 2021 recruiting cycles or I fear we will stay near the bottom.[/quote]

Do you have any inside info that LJ is gone after this year? Or, do you mistakenly think he is a senior?

Because, that is the second time you've posted that. Just wondering.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=360394][quote="Mike Zaun" post=360393][quote="redmannorth" post=360271]Mike i agrée with what you said about Lavin but CMA has not been recruiting 2 star players for next years and beyond. Posh is a 3 or 4 star recruit. Cole is a JC AA. That is like getting a top 60 kid, albeit only for 2 years. Moore was not super high ranked as a JC but has great size and skill set and had offers from very good schools. Wusu is currently listed as a 2 star recruit but I believe he will finished higher come next May. But more importantly he has the defensive mindset the coach and staff are looking for and is a big strong guard which fits coach’s game plan. 1 our of 4 recruits is 2 star. I think the staff knows very well what level talent they need to bring in to succeed.[/quote]

Apologies if I worded incorrectly...I meant that he got some 2 star kids to fill the holes and have a team on the court this year which is obviously understandable given that he wasn't left much and didn't have time to recruit the bigger names. He cannot continue to get that type of recruit however that was my point. For 2020 and beyond we really need to get some serious talent. Posh was a great get. But remember we lose Heron and LJ after this year. That leaves us with zero proven scorers. I think Posh can be a good piece, but I don't expect him to have anywhere near the production of those guys. We need several legit recruits in the 2020 or 2021 recruiting cycles or I fear we will stay near the bottom.[/quote]

Do you have any inside info that LJ is gone after this year? Or, do you mistakenly think he is a senior?

Because, that is the second time you've posted that. Just wondering.[/quote]
Staff is recruiting on assumption LJ leaves, so fair to lean in that direction imo.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=360280][quote="SJUFAN2" post=360265][quote="MCNPA" post=360257]Our big error was not hiring Bob McKillop all those years ago. All will remember the fateful comments that Ron Rutledge made that McKillop was basically too white and couldn’t recruit 125th Street. We probably wouldn’t have been in this scenario many coaching mistakes later.

Bob McKillop? Still winning... he’s got a handful of seasons below third place in his conference since 1989 and figured out how to scout and recruit an nba MVP. Even this year, 30 years after starting at Davidson and in a tougher league, they’re picked near the top of the A-10 polls. Forget Mark Few and Gonzaga. SJU very well could have had the same consistency and things might have been very different. Instead we’ve torn down our program a multitude of times.

Biggest mistake began and ended right there.[/quote]

McKillop is a fine coach. He'd have been a good hire, but I think the biggest mistake we made hiring a coach was hiring Jarvis and not Jay Wright.[/quote]

Yeah that’s another one. I don’t think Wright would have stayed here. I also think McKillop would have really been consistently good at a higher level. Both big losses but McKillop the one that was an easy choice who was primed to stay crest a legacy here.[/quote]

At the time of that hire Wright had 1 winning season in 4 total and no post season appearances on his resume. Would have been a high risk hire, that probably would have paid off, but would have opened up the admin and AD to a lot or criticism for not making a big hire. Of course he made his first NIT the following year, followed by 2 dances and the rest is history.
 
[quote="SJU65" post=360354]Don’t forget where the program was when Norm came aboard,the Pitt scandal, the losing, the bare cubbord. He helped right the ship and Lavin took Norms tteam to the tournament.[/quote]

I do not look fondly back on Norm's tenure.
It was awful.
I remember a distinct lack of hope.
Jarvis and Pittsburgh started the program's funeral march. Norm was there to dig the grave, slowly, inch by inch over the course of six years.
 
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[quote="SJU65" post=360354]Don’t forget where the program was when Norm came aboard,the Pitt scandal, the losing, the bare cubbord. He helped right the ship and Lavin took Norms tteam to the tournament.[/quote]

While he ran a clean program and righted the ship he almost steered it clear out of the Big East, which is what was being murmured around coaching circles at the end of his tenure. He recruited fairly well given the circumstances, but he couldn't coach a lick. Nice guy though.
 
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