(POST GAME) @Georgetown (CAP ONE), Wed. Jan. 8, 6:30p, FS-1 / 970 AM

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[quote="CMA TIME" post=371413]2017-18: 2 losses in ooc, then 0-11 in conf
2018-19: undefeated on ooc, and not so good in conf
This year 2 ooc losses, then this crap show

Very frustrating, it's getting to the point of why watch ooc? To feel good and confident then in conf get smacked down?
WVU and Arizona are pretty good teams, no? We beat them but can't beat anyone in the B.E.?
Not blaming cma, he had only 2 returning starters this season, but i won't care about ooc next year, I guess I learned my lesson.[/quote]

Or just watch OOC lol
 
LJSA wrote:
SJU61982 wrote:
mjmaherjr wrote:
SJU61982 wrote: Might be best for all involved, to just say goodbye to Heron right now, and wish him luck in the future. If he's not going to come out of this, then as a senior, what's the point of keeping him around? .
What ????????????????????????????????????


Taking a page from Georgetown's book. They're better without Akinjo, and at this stage, we might be the same without Heron. If Heron were a freshman, soph., or junior, I would feel differently, but what's the point of trying to get him right, for a season that looks lost anyway? Might as well lose with the young guys.

BTW, since Heron's left Auburn, they've been to a final four, and are one of the last two unbeatens remaining, this year. I'm sure if you asked Bruce Pearl about that, he would say it goes deeper then just Heron leaving, and it probably is, but man, you've just got to wonder if, great numbers aside, he was hindering that team's potential.


Any team that cuts a kid midseason for a slump deserves to never get another recruit ever again. The fact that he's a senior makes it a million times worse.

+1000 and CMA is the last coach who'd ever consider doing it. I agree Heron hurt us with his play tonight and has been bad lately. But don't agree the season is over and Heron can snap out of his funk. I do agree with Monte that having him come off the bench next game might not be a bad move just to change things up and take some of Heron's self imposed pressure off. He is not forcing his outside shot; he's getting wide open looks and just missing them badly. He does force the drive sometimes resulting in turnovers or charges.
 
Just tired of this really...I know it's a rebuilding year but there's zero excuse to be 4-24 or something like that in the first 5 games of conference play the last 5-6 yrs. Just absurdly bad. When you get into even a 0-3 hole in this conference you can pack it up in terms of postseason chances. We have made it an art form unfortunately. Big waste of 2 great OOC wins. Very confusing but also very comfortable in a weird way. This is just our reality and it really makes me wonder if the Lavin years were our ceiling as much as I couldn't stand Lavin teams.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=371419]LJSA wrote:
SJU61982 wrote:
mjmaherjr wrote:
SJU61982 wrote: Might be best for all involved, to just say goodbye to Heron right now, and wish him luck in the future. If he's not going to come out of this, then as a senior, what's the point of keeping him around? .
What ????????????????????????????????????


Taking a page from Georgetown's book. They're better without Akinjo, and at this stage, we might be the same without Heron. If Heron were a freshman, soph., or junior, I would feel differently, but what's the point of trying to get him right, for a season that looks lost anyway? Might as well lose with the young guys.

BTW, since Heron's left Auburn, they've been to a final four, and are one of the last two unbeatens remaining, this year. I'm sure if you asked Bruce Pearl about that, he would say it goes deeper then just Heron leaving, and it probably is, but man, you've just got to wonder if, great numbers aside, he was hindering that team's potential.


Any team that cuts a kid midseason for a slump deserves to never get another recruit ever again. The fact that he's a senior makes it a million times worse.

+1000 and CMA is the last coach who'd ever consider doing it. I agree Heron hurt us with his play tonight and has been bad lately. But don't agree the season is over and Heron can snap out of his funk. I do agree with Monte that having him come off the bench next game might not be a bad move just to change things up and take some of Heron's self imposed pressure off. He is not forcing his outside shot; he's getting wide open looks and just missing them badly. He does force the drive sometimes resulting in turnovers or charges.[/quote]

Just because he is briefly open doesn't mean he's not forcing his game. Heron has not learned to give the extra pass and takes shots he can't make with the new 3 point line. He is not a good 3 point shooter. He's been careless with the ball and holding on to it on drives. He should study Dunn. Mustapha is just as athletic but just not as smart with the ball in his hands. Dunn and Williams in the backcourt may be a better option at this point. I expect CMA to start using Steere more as he learns positioning.
 
We have mid major players in the Big East. We can't recruit above that level. Our success once again ends with the Big East's start.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=371408]Zach Braziller
@NYPost_Brazille
·
14m
Haven't heard a St. John's coach put a poor effort on himself like that. Players and recruits care about that. #sjubb[/quote]

Much respect to CMA for accepting responsibility
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=371422]Just tired of this really...I know it's a rebuilding year but there's zero excuse to be 4-24 or something like that in the first 5 games of conference play the last 5-6 yrs. Just absurdly bad. When you get into even a 0-3 hole in this conference you can pack it up in terms of postseason chances. We have made it an art form unfortunately. Big waste of 2 great OOC wins. Very confusing but also very comfortable in a weird way. This is just our reality and it really makes me wonder if the Lavin years were our ceiling as much as I couldn't stand Lavin teams.[/quote]

Lavin is a real coach, cma is, plus only 2 returning starters from last year.
Let him get his own players
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=371410][quote="SJU61982" post=371398]Might be best for all involved, to just say goodbye to Heron right now, and wish him luck in the future. If he's not going to come out of this, then as a senior, what's the point of keeping him around? It might also retard the growth of some of the youngsters, if he's playing like this, at their expense.

Georgetown looks a lot better since saying goodbye to Akinjo. Maybe Ewing set a precedent there.[/quote]

That's a ridiculous comparison. Mustapha has been forcing his shots and needs to drive more like Dunn. Problem is there is no point guard to direct the plays CMA wants to execute. Dunn was the MVP tonight not because of his PG game but because he is an aggressive player. Heron needs to channel his aggressiveness towards the basket like Dunn.
Julian has clearly hit the freshman wall but the experience he is getting is invaluable. I want to see more of Earlington and Steere in his spot. The loss of McGriff is underestimated as Rutherford is not strong with passes. He and Mustapha were turnover machines tonight. Not sure why CMA benched Roberts but hopefully a teaching moment that will help later in the season. Zero blocks when he sits. First truly bad 2 halfs of the season but to all the ladies getting their bloomers wet remember we beat two very good nationally ranked teams. Just need to get better players than the last staff and that shouldn't be hard to do given we had a non-coaching Twitter twit doing all the recruiting.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you’re saying, but Heron is nowhere near close to Dunn when it comes to driving to the hoop. He’s not nearly as quick, doesn’t have nearly the handle, doesn’t have the athleticism to finish and can only go left. If anything, maybe he needs to try and post low and/or use the baseline more. Regardless, he needs to take higher % shots until the point that he snaps out of his funk. Forcing up 3s ain’t gonna do it
 
[quote="Duke of Earlington" post=371420]Why do we give up so many open 3s every game?[/quote]

Because we often totally sell out to help on dribble-drive, instead of giving ourselves some space between the ball and man which will allow us to quickly defend anyone out on the perimeter once the ball is kicked out.

Once we sell out to help on the dribble-drive; the ball is kicked out and the ball is quickly swung around (now we're in scramble mode ala a live fire drill) and our opponent ends up with an open look.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=371422]Just tired of this really...I know it's a rebuilding year but there's zero excuse to be 4-24 or something like that in the first 5 games of conference play the last 5-6 yrs. Just absurdly bad. When you get into even a 0-3 hole in this conference you can pack it up in terms of postseason chances. We have made it an art form unfortunately. Big waste of 2 great OOC wins. Very confusing but also very comfortable in a weird way. This is just our reality and it really makes me wonder if the Lavin years were our ceiling as much as I couldn't stand Lavin teams.[/quote]

Lavin recruited the best talent in a decade when he took the job. It was unfortunate that 2 maladjusted players basically ruined his career at St. John's. Half a dozen players from his time are playing professionally.
This is the best Big East since the split from top to bottom. No Lavin team was a bad as the Mullin teams. Remember, the first three years of his coaching debacle Mullin had 3 straight losing seasons and won a grand total of 12 conference games.
Feel better now?
 
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I am riding with Heron. I like the kid and he's spending his senior year with us on a subpar roster.

Tonight was tough to watch. As many agree, we just need a talent upgrade. I think there will be departures and our 2020 recruiting class will grow. Until then, I only hope to see development in those players coming back.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=371406][quote="mjmaherjr" post=371399][quote="SJU61982" post=371398]Might be best for all involved, to just say goodbye to Heron right now, and wish him luck in the future. If he's not going to come out of this, then as a senior, what's the point of keeping him around? .[/quote] What ????????????????????????????????????[/quote]

Taking a page from Georgetown's book. They're better without Akinjo, and at this stage, we might be the same without Heron. If Heron were a freshman, soph., or junior, I would feel differently, but what's the point of trying to get him right, for a season that looks lost anyway? Might as well lose with the young guys.

BTW, since Heron's left Auburn, they've been to a final four, and are one of the last two unbeatens remaining, this year. I'm sure if you asked Bruce Pearl about that, he would say it goes deeper then just Heron leaving, and it probably is, but man, you've just got to wonder if, great numbers aside, he was hindering that team's potential.[/quote] how do you think a parent of a prospect would feel if a coach would potentially give up on their kid who is a really good player a few games in to the conference schedule after coming off an injury when the kid certainly isnt the only underperformer

In life there are winners and losers and people who fight or give up. I'd rather lose without giving up on kids who are good and just need to get on right path
 
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[quote="mjmaherjr" post=371399][quote="SJU61982" post=371398]Might be best for all involved, to just say goodbye to Heron right now, and wish him luck in the future. If he's not going to come out of this, then as a senior, what's the point of keeping him around? .[/quote] What ????????????????????????????????????[/quote]

Silly comment. Heron is, by all accounts, a good kid and a wonderful representative of the school who has worked hard to become a leader. Kid is in a funk. Much different situation than Akinjo. The only chance we have to salvage a productive season is to get Heron right. I believe he's capable of being a solid contributor, if not a star. Perhaps I'm in the minority now.
 
[quote="Monte" post=371432][quote="Class of 72" post=371410][quote="SJU61982" post=371398]Might be best for all involved, to just say goodbye to Heron right now, and wish him luck in the future. If he's not going to come out of this, then as a senior, what's the point of keeping him around? It might also retard the growth of some of the youngsters, if he's playing like this, at their expense.

Georgetown looks a lot better since saying goodbye to Akinjo. Maybe Ewing set a precedent there.[/quote]

That's a ridiculous comparison. Mustapha has been forcing his shots and needs to drive more like Dunn. Problem is there is no point guard to direct the plays CMA wants to execute. Dunn was the MVP tonight not because of his PG game but because he is an aggressive player. Heron needs to channel his aggressiveness towards the basket like Dunn.
Julian has clearly hit the freshman wall but the experience he is getting is invaluable. I want to see more of Earlington and Steere in his spot. The loss of McGriff is underestimated as Rutherford is not strong with passes. He and Mustapha were turnover machines tonight. Not sure why CMA benched Roberts but hopefully a teaching moment that will help later in the season. Zero blocks when he sits. First truly bad 2 halfs of the season but to all the ladies getting their bloomers wet remember we beat two very good nationally ranked teams. Just need to get better players than the last staff and that shouldn't be hard to do given we had a non-coaching Twitter twit doing all the recruiting.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you’re saying, but Heron is nowhere near close to Dunn when it comes to driving to the hoop. He’s not nearly as quick, doesn’t have nearly the handle, doesn’t have the athleticism to finish and can only go left. If anything, maybe he needs to try and post low and/or use the baseline more. Regardless, he needs to take higher % shots until the point that he snaps out of his funk. Forcing up 3s ain’t gonna do it[/quote]

The Heron that played at Auburn and who started all 64 games played had a strong drive to the basket and rebounded well. Yes, he has a poor handle and does not have the strong hands that Dunn has but he is just as athletic. His game started going south under the last staff where Mitch Richmond seemingly taught him nada. He began the season well but doesn't seem to recover well from I injuries. Perhaps that is part of the problem. I expect him to improve as I do with most of the players except Sears, Rutherford and Caraher. It's hard to play without a good passing point guard and hopefully McGriff and Posh will solve that problem next season.
 
SJU has many problems but the biggest is its half court offense. Since the Golden State Warriors roster became filled with excellent three point shooters a number of years ago the game of basketball at all levels is being played with all players hoisting up threes. Unfortunately SJU is not made up of players who can play that game.
In the seven games vs top competition, Ver, Ar St, W Va, Ar, But., Xav and Geo SJU shoots less than 18 per cent from three and they took another 25 tonight. They will lose another ten or so in a row and then some night will make twice as many as they usually do and win a game and everything will be fine.
If this is going to be the game plan coach better bring in seven or eight new players next season.
 
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=371441][quote="mjmaherjr" post=371399][quote="SJU61982" post=371398]Might be best for all involved, to just say goodbye to Heron right now, and wish him luck in the future. If he's not going to come out of this, then as a senior, what's the point of keeping him around? .[/quote] What ????????????????????????????????????[/quote]

Silly comment. Heron is, by all accounts, a good kid and a wonderful representative of the school who has worked hard to become a leader. Kid is in a funk. Much different situation than Akinjo. The only chance we have to salvage a productive season is to get Heron right. I believe he's capable of being a solid contributor, if not a star. Perhaps I'm in the minority now.[/quote]

Yeah good kid is great, but what's his #s on the court?
Not saying to get rid of him, but he should come off the bench, and if he doesn't like that then hey to bad.
Get it together, then maybe you could start again. Put in the work.
 
Just watched this disturbing loss. Have no words, but I find myself not wanting to watch any college BB any longer because it feels like our season is over. At this point I really can't find any possible wins on the schedule. We're so undermanned.

On a another note, I refereed a BB game at South Side HS on Long Island tonight. During a timeout, I look up and who is staring me down but Beaver Smith. Those were the days.....
 
On the real I would just have heron and LJ not start and come off the bench. This was painful to watch. I’ve never seen such bad shooting. I think heron and LJ mess up the flow and chemistry of the second unit players. Must be a long bus ride home to queens
 
[quote="Delaware" post=371447]Just watched this disturbing loss. Have no words, but I find myself not wanting to watch any college BB any longer because it feels like our season is over. At this point I really can't find any possible wins on the schedule. We're so undermanned.

On a another note, I refereed a BB game at South Side HS on Long Island tonight. During a timeout, I look up and who is staring me down but Beaver Smith. Those were the days.....[/quote]

So if our conference was full of Arizona West Virginia types we could go undefeated?
You didn't stop watching after Mullin's first 3 seasons and you won't stop watching now.;) :lol: :silly:
 
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