(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM

[quote="SJU61982" post=370280][quote="Section9" post=370266][quote="Paultzman" post=370196][quote="Logen" post=370193]After we squandered leads in previous games, many, including myself, talked about basketball being a game of runs and it is. So we had a tremendous 2nd half run, got a lead late and then couldn’t close it out. It’s about W’s and L’s and in my opinion there are no moral victories and that was a bad loss. Another example of us not knowing how to play with a lead. And I may be harsh but Dunn backing that ball out was a “me” play and I just don’t see it.[/quote]

Great point on Dunn play, inexplicable.[/quote]

Yeah, I get that but that's an NYC pg mentality. He wants the ball in the end. Seems we forgot what he did against wvu at the end. You've got to live with it, good or bad until this team has more offensive talent.[/quote]

And Vermont. He hit the big 3 pointer to tie that game, even though we lost.

When a guy wants the ball like he does, you're going to get burned sometimes, but if he doesn't want the ball, he'll burn you every time.[/quote]

Caraher wanted the ball at the end. Watch the video tape. But he was ignored by Dunn who wanted to be the star. It's a team game !
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370281]Steere not playing is ???. Speculation may be he isn’t Anderson’s type of Player ... he was recruited mid year by Matt A and CM last season ... after much hype here as to getting him eligible , maybe not going to be in the mix as much as us fans believed.. . We played much of the game without a big , as Roberts didn’t play much . Thus , a mystery as to why no Steere , since we were out rebounded throughout the game . Time will tell .[/quote]

I dont think steere is going to play for us. If I was to make a guess, id say he is not giving much defensive effort in practice. What im noticing from iron mike is defense is the number 1 quality he is looking for. No d, no play.
 
With CMA teams practicing and defending passionately seem requisites. Hopefully Ian S realizes that and has bought in.
 
I would think Anderson will give Steere a chance but obviously he believes the other players are ahead of him right now.
 
FYI replay of game on MSG+ right now. Happy Nee Year everyone
 
A few observations from game.
- I have no problem with Dunn having the ball in his hands at the end. Like everyone else, hated the circle-back towards half court. Dunn’s a high energy kid who sometimes tries to do more than his skill sets allow. I trust CMA will reel him in as season progresses.
-Just watching Steere in his couple of minute appearance on the court, he doesn’t seem to bring the kind of energy, nor run the floor, like all the other kids. Granted a very small sample size, but that was my take away. Of course practice is a big unknown. Don’t blame CMA for not playing him yesterday, especially when we were fighting to get out of the hole we dug
-While I was very disappointed in the L, it’s an L I can accept considering we fought like hell and played without our 2 best players. It’s a long season and we’ll win some of these(IE Zona game) and lose some. As long as we keep playing hard, which we will, this will continue to be a very exciting and fun season.
 
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It’s a loss but by 2 points to the number 11 team in the country and we could have won. Still without Heron and with LJ for much of the game. We are going to win our share for sure and can compete with anybody even in a year that is far from our strongest talent-wise. Keep charging and we can get ours even this season.

PS. I read a lot the Big East team message boards as well as others. The overwhelming consensus is how good of a coach Mike Anderson is. Everybody is more than impressed so the job he’s doing here and it’s plain to see by fans of other teams. We are on the right path and it’s clear. An excellent coach is what we needed and we have one.
 
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Embarrassing first half, thrilling comeback and heart-breaking loss. Feel like everyone's opinions are valid here. Extremely encouraging that this team was able to fight back and take the lead rather than just lay down however I understand being upset that we had the #11 team down 5 with 3 minutes left and lost. What a strange game. Excited for the rest of a long season. Also, great job to all the posters who showed up to support the team. Watching on my tv on the west coast, you could feel the crowd's energy in the 2nd half through the screen.

Agree that Figueroa and Heron need to step up. The narrative coming into the season has flipped. They were supposed to carry this team but the reason we've had a pretty good season is the supporting cast over-achieving to make up for their inconsistent play. That was LJ's worst game as a Johnnie. I'm a HUGE fan but he's regressed. I understand they're our most talented players and still score the bulk of our points when healthy but their poor/inconsistent play is hurting the team. With great power comes great responsibility and all that...

This team has looked it's best without a "star" on the court who everyone is deferring to. There's still a lot of season left and I believe they'll eventually get it together but to be blunt they haven't PLAYED like leaders on the court. Other guys have led by their effort on the court.
 
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[quote="QueensBall" post=370295]Embarrassing first half, thrilling comeback and heart-breaking loss. Feel like everyone's opinions are valid here. Extremely encouraging that this team was able to fight back and take the lead rather than just lay down however I understand being upset that we had the #11 team down 5 with 3 minutes left and lost. What a strange game. Excited for the rest of a long season. Also, great job to all the posters who showed up to support the team. Watching on my tv on the west coast, you could feel the crowd's energy in the 2nd half through the screen.

Agree that Figueroa and Heron need to step up. The narrative coming into the season has flipped. They were supposed to carry this team but the reason we've had a pretty good season is the supporting cast over-achieving to make up for their inconsistent play. That was LJ's worst game as a Johnnie. I'm a HUGE fan but he's regressed. I understand they're our most talented players and still score the bulk of our points when healthy but their poor/inconsistent play is hurting the team. With great power comes great responsibility and all that...

This team has looked it's best without a "star" on the court who everyone is deferring to. There's still a lot of season left and I believe they'll eventually get it together but to be blunt they haven't PLAYED like leaders on the court. Other guys have led by their effort on the court.[/quote]

You're last paragraph, I just can't get behind, on principle. Even if you're right, I can't get behind it.

You need that alpha dog late in games. Butler had that in Baldwin (that shot he hit to cut it to 1, is a shot you just live with defensively, IMO). We did not, and it's why the offense went AWOL down the stretch.

There's just no way we're a better team without those two, over the long haul. No way, no how.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=370296][quote="QueensBall" post=370295]Embarrassing first half, thrilling comeback and heart-breaking loss. Feel like everyone's opinions are valid here. Extremely encouraging that this team was able to fight back and take the lead rather than just lay down however I understand being upset that we had the #11 team down 5 with 3 minutes left and lost. What a strange game. Excited for the rest of a long season. Also, great job to all the posters who showed up to support the team. Watching on my tv on the west coast, you could feel the crowd's energy in the 2nd half through the screen.

Agree that Figueroa and Heron need to step up. The narrative coming into the season has flipped. They were supposed to carry this team but the reason we've had a pretty good season is the supporting cast over-achieving to make up for their inconsistent play. That was LJ's worst game as a Johnnie. I'm a HUGE fan but he's regressed. I understand they're our most talented players and still score the bulk of our points when healthy but their poor/inconsistent play is hurting the team. With great power comes great responsibility and all that...

This team has looked it's best without a "star" on the court who everyone is deferring to. There's still a lot of season left and I believe they'll eventually get it together but to be blunt they haven't PLAYED like leaders on the court. Other guys have led by their effort on the court.[/quote]

You're last paragraph, I just can't get behind, on principle. Even if you're right, I can't get behind it.

You need that alpha dog late in games. Butler had that in Baldwin (that shot he hit to cut it to 1, is a shot you just live with defensively, IMO). We did not, and it's why the offense went AWOL down the stretch.

There's just no way we're a better team without those two, over the long haul. No way, no how.[/quote]

I should clarify that I agree with you we're a better team with those two guys moving forward. CLEARLY. I'm not trying to say they should be benched or anything insane like that. Grateful to have them. Only highlighting that they've under-performed thus far. And I do believe that the 2nd half of last night's game was probably the best we've played all season and those guys were not on the court. This team is at it's best with them on the court playing up to their potential. We have a much lower ceiling unless that happens. That's all I meant to say. We're in no position to take two very talented guys for granted. They are necessary for success at the level we're all hoping for.
 
[quote="QueensBall" post=370297][quote="SJU61982" post=370296][quote="QueensBall" post=370295]Embarrassing first half, thrilling comeback and heart-breaking loss. Feel like everyone's opinions are valid here. Extremely encouraging that this team was able to fight back and take the lead rather than just lay down however I understand being upset that we had the #11 team down 5 with 3 minutes left and lost. What a strange game. Excited for the rest of a long season. Also, great job to all the posters who showed up to support the team. Watching on my tv on the west coast, you could feel the crowd's energy in the 2nd half through the screen.

Agree that Figueroa and Heron need to step up. The narrative coming into the season has flipped. They were supposed to carry this team but the reason we've had a pretty good season is the supporting cast over-achieving to make up for their inconsistent play. That was LJ's worst game as a Johnnie. I'm a HUGE fan but he's regressed. I understand they're our most talented players and still score the bulk of our points when healthy but their poor/inconsistent play is hurting the team. With great power comes great responsibility and all that...

This team has looked it's best without a "star" on the court who everyone is deferring to. There's still a lot of season left and I believe they'll eventually get it together but to be blunt they haven't PLAYED like leaders on the court. Other guys have led by their effort on the court.[/quote]

You're last paragraph, I just can't get behind, on principle. Even if you're right, I can't get behind it.

You need that alpha dog late in games. Butler had that in Baldwin (that shot he hit to cut it to 1, is a shot you just live with defensively, IMO). We did not, and it's why the offense went AWOL down the stretch.

There's just no way we're a better team without those two, over the long haul. No way, no how.[/quote]

I should clarify that I agree with you we're a better team with those two guys moving forward. CLEARLY. I'm not trying to say they should be benched or anything insane like that. Grateful to have them. Only highlighting that they've under-performed thus far. And I do believe that the 2nd half of last night's game was probably the best we've played all season and those guys were not on the court. This team is at it's best with them on the court playing up to their potential. We have a much lower ceiling unless that happens. That's all I meant to say. We're in no position to take two very talented guys for granted. They are necessary for success at the level we're all hoping for.[/quote]
I thought your point re two main guys having to step was clear.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=370296][quote="QueensBall" post=370295]Embarrassing first half, thrilling comeback and heart-breaking loss. Feel like everyone's opinions are valid here. Extremely encouraging that this team was able to fight back and take the lead rather than just lay down however I understand being upset that we had the #11 team down 5 with 3 minutes left and lost. What a strange game. Excited for the rest of a long season. Also, great job to all the posters who showed up to support the team. Watching on my tv on the west coast, you could feel the crowd's energy in the 2nd half through the screen.

Agree that Figueroa and Heron need to step up. The narrative coming into the season has flipped. They were supposed to carry this team but the reason we've had a pretty good season is the supporting cast over-achieving to make up for their inconsistent play. That was LJ's worst game as a Johnnie. I'm a HUGE fan but he's regressed. I understand they're our most talented players and still score the bulk of our points when healthy but their poor/inconsistent play is hurting the team. With great power comes great responsibility and all that...

This team has looked it's best without a "star" on the court who everyone is deferring to. There's still a lot of season left and I believe they'll eventually get it together but to be blunt they haven't PLAYED like leaders on the court. Other guys have led by their effort on the court.[/quote]

You're last paragraph, I just can't get behind, on principle. Even if you're right, I can't get behind it.

You need that alpha dog late in games. Butler had that in Baldwin (that shot he hit to cut it to 1, is a shot you just live with defensively, IMO). We did not, and it's why the offense went AWOL down the stretch.

There's just no way we're a better team without those two, over the long haul. No way, no how.[/quote]
Agree we need those 2 to be the best possible team we are capable of being, but not sure that either is the alpha dog that we want them to be. At this point, can’t say that I’m feeling good about having the ball in Heron’s hands with the the game on the line any more than some of the other kids. LJ maybe slightly more, but again not like I’m screaming “get the ball to LJ!” with the game on the line. So far we’ve had a sort of “hero by committee” scenario. I expect that will continue. Having said that, having both Heron and LJ on the court gives us 2 viable outside scoring options which keeps the opposing team’s defense honest and opens up the floor for the other guys.
 
Been searching for a “moral victory” that so many on here hate and I found one.

Butler is (was?) top 20 in the country in fewest turnovers, only averaging 13 a game.

Nova is the only team who comes close, they are 30th.

My point is, if we were able to have THAT second half against the Big East team that statistically protects the ball better than everyone else in our conference... I’m feeling okay about our chances the rest of the season.

I’ll never forget the camera on Jordan tucker during one of butlers second half timeouts, he looked terrified.
 
[quote="Andrew" post=370289]I would think Anderson will give Steere a chance but obviously he believes the other players are ahead of him right now.[/quote]

Steere isn’t ready. Period. Not for the intensity of a game like that where you are clawing to get back in. Uber talented, but has to show he can do it on a consistent basis. That’s starts with practice and proving it to coach. I was not surprised to see him not play, and while I think he’ll really get his shot soon, he wasn’t ready for that Butler game. These guys have developed a rhythm off the bench, they play so hard. Steere hasn’t shown that level of intensity yet. The only thing holding him back. Plus, he just has to get used to playing in game atmosphere again. Against Butler, down 20 something is not the time to experiment.

He needs to turn it up in practice, cause the BE is no place to try to get your “sea legs” this year. This team has very little room for margin of error. The only way we win games this year is with stifling defense like the second half.
 
I thought he'd be ready, so I admit that I was mistaken.

Hopefully he is ready soon. Especially since a guy who left his last school after 5 minutes of playing time may not be patient with similar or less PT here.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=370308]I thought he'd be ready, so I admit that I was mistaken.

Hopefully he is ready soon. Especially since a guy who left his last school after 5 minutes of playing time may not be patient with similar or less PT here.[/quote]

There’s always a reason.. it saying that the reason is the same, but this is his. He might be ready to play for somebody else, but not MA right now. He’ll get a good shot soon. I think he’ll be fine in the long run.

Right now he’s basically a freshman though. Champagnie has more experience than he does. Think about that.

Hell same with Roberts, Marcellus, and Williams. Those guys barely played last year. LJ has really only played one year, and he was the 4th/5th option.

What this team has done so far has been remarkable. There is most definitely a talent gap, but CMA’s specialty is turning sh!t into sugar with not so talented rosters. He’s gonna get everything they have out of them.
 
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Not the first time Fiqueroa has been guilty of careless fouls. As the announcer pointed out , " What's he doing fouling his man 35 feet from the basket."
I am totally confused with Dunn's decisions at the 1:39 mark and 13 seconds remaining, both times dribbling the ball back to half court. .And the last gaffe was after a timeout.
Don't know if it was planned but we fell back after our shots in the first half, resulting in only 5 offensive rebounds for the game "5" ? We were out rebounded 46 to our measly 24.
Rutherford has surprised me from the beginning, did not expect his spark plug performances.15 pts., 6 steals., 5 assists., and only 2 turnovers.
Williams is really getting his game back.11 pts., 4 assists., and 3 steals. Nice to see from a good kid.
You live by the three you die by the three!
Tough loss after such a great comeback. Really, really surprising me with their never give up performances. Thanks coach!
 
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[quote="QueensBall" post=370297][quote="SJU61982" post=370296][quote="QueensBall" post=370295]Embarrassing first half, thrilling comeback and heart-breaking loss. Feel like everyone's opinions are valid here. Extremely encouraging that this team was able to fight back and take the lead rather than just lay down however I understand being upset that we had the #11 team down 5 with 3 minutes left and lost. What a strange game. Excited for the rest of a long season. Also, great job to all the posters who showed up to support the team. Watching on my tv on the west coast, you could feel the crowd's energy in the 2nd half through the screen.

Agree that Figueroa and Heron need to step up. The narrative coming into the season has flipped. They were supposed to carry this team but the reason we've had a pretty good season is the supporting cast over-achieving to make up for their inconsistent play. That was LJ's worst game as a Johnnie. I'm a HUGE fan but he's regressed. I understand they're our most talented players and still score the bulk of our points when healthy but their poor/inconsistent play is hurting the team. With great power comes great responsibility and all that...

This team has looked it's best without a "star" on the court who everyone is deferring to. There's still a lot of season left and I believe they'll eventually get it together but to be blunt they haven't PLAYED like leaders on the court. Other guys have led by their effort on the court.[/quote]

You're last paragraph, I just can't get behind, on principle. Even if you're right, I can't get behind it.

You need that alpha dog late in games. Butler had that in Baldwin (that shot he hit to cut it to 1, is a shot you just live with defensively, IMO). We did not, and it's why the offense went AWOL down the stretch.

There's just no way we're a better team without those two, over the long haul. No way, no how.[/quote]

I should clarify that I agree with you we're a better team with those two guys moving forward. CLEARLY. I'm not trying to say they should be benched or anything insane like that. Grateful to have them. Only highlighting that they've under-performed thus far. And I do believe that the 2nd half of last night's game was probably the best we've played all season and those guys were not on the court. This team is at it's best with them on the court playing up to their potential. We have a much lower ceiling unless that happens. That's all I meant to say. We're in no position to take two very talented guys for granted. They are necessary for success at the level we're all hoping for.[/quote]

Not sure what those two guys can do. Heron has been way up or way down since day 1 of his college career.

LJ, IMO, is more valuable to a team with established scorers. Then he can do the dirty work stuff, like get steals, and get out and go, etc. On this team, he has to do that, AND score 20 a night, most nights. Just not his game.
 
Tremendous atmosphere at Carnesecca.

My biggest takeaway is imagining what CMA could do with a more talented roster. I love this group of kids, but they are significantly overachieving in CMA's system.

It was back to the old days on the boards last night. We got unlucky with a few long rebounds, but overall we were dominated down low. I still appreciate Marcellus and Roberts, but it's not surprising that they will come back down to earth during conference play.

We sat close to CMA's wife last night. She is aces! Her intensity mirrors our 2nd half defense. She will be a fan favorite.

Great job by SJU recognizing DLO, Zendon and Amar. I also noticed Chudney Grey seems to be a regular.

On to Xavier....
 
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Been to many SJU games in my life and I can just feel it being in the crowd last night. A feeling that our fans have an undeniable appreciation for this team. Evidenced by the applause they gave the team as they were leaving the court on their way to the locker room.
 
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