(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM

[quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]

He drove, but he didn't finish a lot of them. Got fouled often, and made his free throws, which helped. Hit 2 3's, but I still don't think it's a good thing that he open from 3 point range. His offense comes off of his defense, nothing more. I do believe that we will get the most out of him, no matter what.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=370209][quote="Paultzman" post=370207]Mike Anderson on not bringing LJ Figueroa back sooner: “Those guys were just playing well.”

To me SJU still needed a shooter out there to keep Butler honest in closing minutes, but CMA knows better than fans.[/quote]

And your option for that shooter was....?[/quote]
Obviously Figueroa despite his struggles. My response was clear in answer to previous comment. Read it.
 
[quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370216][quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .[/quote]

I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=370215][quote="SJU61982" post=370209][quote="Paultzman" post=370207]Mike Anderson on not bringing LJ Figueroa back sooner: “Those guys were just playing well.”

To me SJU still needed a shooter out there to keep Butler honest in closing minutes, but CMA knows better than fans.[/quote]

And your option for that shooter was....?[/quote]
Obviously Figueroa despite his struggles. My response was clear in answer to previous comment. Read it.[/quote]

Oh, I was screaming to leave him in, when he got his third foul, down 10 in the first half. I feared something like what happened might occur. Of course, I said the same thing when he picked up his fourth, down 19, so I batted .500.

I would have gone back to him, after Butler cut it to one. I thought that's why Anderson called that timeout, and was shocked when he was not put in.
 
[quote="Jnaw17" post=370217][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370216][quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .[/quote]

I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.[/quote]

I know that's who you were talking about. I don't agree. Most of his creating came off steals, and/or doing it before Butler could set the defense. Since we got the ball on the arrow, there was no chance for that, so that eliminated him as an option, IMO.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=370213]It’s almost like I wish we got blown out cause now I’ve just been straight depressed for the past half hour lol[/quote]
I feel the opposite. I love this group of guys and the effort they put in. I wanted the win but I’m happy with the way we played in the second half. If only we could (have) hit a few threes.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=370209][quote="Paultzman" post=370207]Mike Anderson on not bringing LJ Figueroa back sooner: “Those guys were just playing well.”

To me SJU still needed a shooter out there to keep Butler honest in closing minutes, but CMA knows better than fans.[/quote]

And your option for that shooter was....?[/quote]

It certainly is not Caraher and anyone else that was in the game in the last two minutes. It was clearly a lesson to Figgy to play smarter but it backfired. If Steere is playing soft in practices and doesn't get in games I can see a 3rd college on the horizon. Hopefully he gets the message sooner rather than later for the team's sake. The comeback was the total effort of the second string and that is coaching. The stars of this team were supposed to be Heron, Figueroa and Steere but it has hardly been the case so there is plenty of room for optimism.
 
Enjoyed the game thoroughly, voice is gone.
Don't understand why some of these guys think they are 3 point shooters. Like someone said , Earlington should never shoot beyond 10 ft. Dunn's misses weren't even close. Williams is iffy at best as well.
Where was the offensive rebounding in the first half? Looked like I was watching a Mullin team.
Dunn's a heartbreaker, awesome on defense, gets to the basket(stellar use of his off hand btw) yet he takes stupid shots and doesn't distribute the ball. ZERO assists in 26 minutes. Unacceptable.
Another good performance from Sears, who knew.
Totally agree with LJ not getting back in the game. In hindsight, Coach should have called timeout as soon as Butler showed the 1-3-1, those couple possessions they did that totally killed all momentum, it won them the game.

Props to anyone who didn't give up and start reassessing expectations for the rest of the season on the game thread after the first half.
 
[quote="Jnaw17" post=370217][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370216][quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .[/quote]

I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.[/quote]. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .
 
This was a strange game but you know what I am proud of the team and the effort they gave. Nothing is ever perfect and we should've closed it out but Butler is a pretty good team and eventually they were going to make a shot. I wasn't expecting it to be Christian David but that's how it goes. Great effort by the kids in the second half. Rutherford was a terror on defense and knocked down two huge threes. Caraher had a couple bad stretches in the first half but he played hard every minute he was in the game as did Sears, Williams and for the most part Earlington and Dunn. Champagne and Roberts did not have there best days and Anderson has to get that figured out. No idea what the the deal with Steere is and it obviously wasn't Figgy's day. A lot of work to do ro get ready for Xavier but overall I am very proud of how they have played this season. Looking forward to the next game and hoping that Heron will be back soon.
 
On the positive side, I think Greg Williams is going to be a good one for us. When he plays with confidence, he’s a different player.
 
Personally, I don’t criticize Anderson for Dunn being on the court and I don’t believe the play was designed for him, he essentially picked up a loose ball as I recall the play. But when he got the ball the play was scrambled for both teams and by backing the ball out you let Butler reset their defense, stagnate your own offensive movement and essentially reduce the possession to you with the ball. If he picked it up and just attacked you avoid all of that and increase your chances for an offensive rebound with the court confusion. Just a very bad decision IMO. I obviously don’t know Anderson’s instructions but I always thought and taught in those end game situations that if things scramble, attack, don’t reset because the defense has lost cohesion and block out assignments. Get the ball up on the rim reasonably as quickly as possible and attack the glass for a follow up.
 
I could tell by the conversation between Anderson and Dunn after the game that Anderson wasn't happy. The play was for Figueroa to take the shot in my opinion and when Dunn got the ball he needed to attack. Rutherford for good bad or indifferent was the reason we came so close to winning. Unbelievable defensive effort.
 
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[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370223][quote="Jnaw17" post=370217][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370216][quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .[/quote]

I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.[/quote]. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .[/quote]

I wasn't trashing Rutherford, and I agree that he was our best player tonight. That's not even really up for debate.

I just don't believe that running the half court offense is his strength. Steals, and beating the defense down the court, are his strengths.

I don't know if we have a strength in the half court offense, TBH, but with Heron out, Dunn has been our best 1-on-1 player over the course of the year. I was one of those people who pushed aside the McGriff injury, but maybe he would have helped us there.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=370228][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370223][quote="Jnaw17" post=370217][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370216][quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .[/quote]

I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.[/quote]. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .[/quote]

I wasn't trashing Rutherford, and I agree that he was our best player tonight. That's not even really up for debate.

I just don't believe that running the half court offense is his strength. Steals, and beating the defense down the court, are his strengths.

I don't know if we have a strength in the half court offense, TBH, but with Heron out, Dunn has been our best 1-on-1 player over the course of the year. I was one of those people who pushed aside the McGriff injury, but maybe he would have helped us there.[/quote]. Dunn is a one dimensional player that is exciting to watch but , he should never shoot the ball . He goes to the hoop strong but , can’t shoot a lick . And , he isn’t a Playmaker who makes his teammates better . But , he contributes when he plays his game . Not try to be a long range shooter .,
 
That was one heck of a game to be at. The 2nd half was maybe the most fun ive had at a sporting event. The place was going bananas. What a great time at carnesseca. But the loss was heartbreaking.

The crowd was amazing though.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=370183]Anderson put Figueroa in too late (I saw '72 said the same after I posted it in the game thread).
I think Anderson screwed the pooch on that one. Dunn too much dribbling there at the end. Valiant effort to come back from a 23-point deficit.

I'm proud we came back, but we should've won this considering we lead by five late in the game. I'm hoping we can steal road wins versus DePaul and Georgetown coming up.[/quote]

@ Xavier, @ G-Town, vs DePaul

Great comeback, but you can't go down 23.
 
Nah. No moral victories, but with the last two regimes and more talented kids, that's a game that more than likely is a blow out and that feels way worse than what we saw tonight. How many times in the past decade did we have one of those games where the kids struggled early, we were down double digits in the first half/early second half, and instead of closing the gap we got our doors blown off. I'll take the effort we saw tonight any day of the week. Now need to keep the same intensity while weaving in both Heron and LJ to handle more of the offensive load, which we desperately need with this group. It's an easy team to root for thus far.

[quote="Jack Williams" post=370213]It’s almost like I wish we got blown out cause now I’ve just been straight depressed for the past half hour lol[/quote]
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370229][quote="SJU61982" post=370228][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370223][quote="Jnaw17" post=370217][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=370216][quote="Jnaw17" post=370206][quote="SJU61982" post=370204][quote="SJU2000alum15" post=370197]I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.[/quote]

I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.[/quote]

Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.[/quote]. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .[/quote]

I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.[/quote]. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .[/quote]

I wasn't trashing Rutherford, and I agree that he was our best player tonight. That's not even really up for debate.

I just don't believe that running the half court offense is his strength. Steals, and beating the defense down the court, are his strengths.

I don't know if we have a strength in the half court offense, TBH, but with Heron out, Dunn has been our best 1-on-1 player over the course of the year. I was one of those people who pushed aside the McGriff injury, but maybe he would have helped us there.[/quote]. Dunn is a one dimensional player that is exciting to watch but , he should never shoot the ball . He goes to the hoop strong but , can’t shoot a lick . And , he isn’t a Playmaker who makes his teammates better . But , he contributes when he plays his game . Not try to be a long range shooter .,[/quote]

Nobody on this team can shoot a lick. I think it's time that we, as a fanbase, come to grips with that. It's something we can't do, not something we're not doing. We could improve a little bit, but I've always felt that great shooters are born with that ability.

Dunn is more of a scoring guard, then a point (Larry Brown would hate him, but that just makes me like Dunn more), but until tonight, Rutherford was too much in the other direction, IMO. I dread him taking the outside shot, and feel that he's open for a reason. We were almost playing 4-on-5 offensively, while he was out there. Hopefully, tonight was a breakthrough, but I'm skeptical.

We don't have that happy medium at the point guard position, and that is what holds us back. Maybe Williams can become that, if he continues this kind of play, but he's not a natural point, either.

The only two guys we've had in my time, that I felt were near perfect fits at point guard, were Erick Barkley, and Omar Cook (I'm too young to remember Mark Jackson playing for us), and even Cook started shooting too much as that year went on (though given who else was on that team, that was probably not a bad idea).

As an aside, I do think Rutherford is symbolic of what Anderson's recruiting style is going to be. Guys who may not be 4 or 5 star players, and were overlooked by the big schools, but are perfect fits for his style of play. Rutherford appears to be that. Obviously, it would be ideal to get a 4 or 5 star guy who would fit the system. Hopefully, that day is coming soon.
 
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