Playing Time - Why?

Red.Fans

Red.Fans

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Our current bench is:
Trimble, Dixon, Williams, Roberts, Earlington.

Why That order? Why not more time from Williams or Roberts when they seem to have some things we need?

I think Mullin's priority is what he said: Best 5 guys. What defines "best" is I suspect, for lack of a better and more comprehensive word, confidence. (I think Mullin has used the word "experience" as a superlative on several occasions to praise players) If I were to define our bench by confidence I'd go in this order:
Dixon, Trimble, Williams, Roberts, Earlington.

And while "competence" would be part of that I would not necessarily have the same order for that terms specifically, for those players.

The key to understanding Mullin Ball and why Mullin chooses players is that the prerequisite ingredient that is required in position-less basketball is understanding. Each guy has to understand what is going on, on the floor. It is not about positions, plays and sets. You have to understand what is happening and get to an instinctual level of reacting constantly. This is where a guy like Ponds can really shine if he's got players around him that are on the same page - like the rocket passes against Rutgers and the no look behind the back pass kickout to Clark for 3 against Cal. It is great that he can do that but if there aren't 4 other guys on the floor in the right spots (and with the hands to handle it) But it is also where stuff falls apart when a guy is not where he is supposed to be at any given moment or is not fully confident of what to do without thinking about it. (Why Yakwe was such a problem)

My read on Roberts, Williams and Earlington are that they are not in synch with that yet. I like the length and athleticism that Roberts has and pretty much everything I've seen from Williams in very limited time.

Why Dixon getting less PT than Trimble? My read so far on Dixon is this:
He's small even on our small team. His advantage is speed and some above average athleticism and overall fits into the Mullin Ball better than Trimble but he's not fully in synch yet either and he's an unbalanced player with some high level offensive skills and instincts but maybe a year or two away defensively. At times he looks like he is locking in on defense and moves a lot but he needs to turn this up and smarten up too. Backing off that 3 pt shooter at the end of the shot clock (Cal) was painful and the wild forced shot when we were trying to retake a lead was Bush. I haven't seen these kind of mental mistakes from Trimble and from my perspective, that is what it is all about.

There were also stretches in several games where he was playing decent defense but the opponent was just shooting over him and hitting with ease. At his size he's needs to figure out that his game is about being smart and consistent, otherwise he's a liability. Smart on defense for him means getting up on his man without fouling but he is too small to have much cushion. Maintaining that small gap is where the sweet spot is for him and that is where the work needs to be done. The good news for hims is that in Mullin Ball he doesn't need to be a traditional PG. There is a place for him with his scorer mentality but he can't be a liability on defense as he has been. I think Dixon has to decide that he is going to be an in-your-joc defender. That is where he could define himself as a legitimate high major player.
 
And my question is will they ever be able to get in sync unless they are provided the opportunity to get their feet wet in a real game?

Listen, everyone has shredded Mullin for scheduling such a weak schedule, me included. But it’s a reality now, we have a weak non conference slate especially after tonight. So might as well use that to our advantage in any way possible, get Roberts and Williams some minutes in these games. Get them some first half minutes and if the game isn’t close in the second half let them close it out.

From what I have seen from watching the other big east teams and us so far, I think we have a real shot to win the conference. I’ve never been able to say that before. But this year is different. But I don’t want our top 5 guys to be run into the ground by February. Find some minutes for these freshmen and if it doesn’t work out fine. But give it a shot, please.
 
Again if Roberts and Williams come in and they do poorly and we fall behind EVERYONE on here will be screaming for Mullin to take them out. No one on here knows what goes on in practice. If Mullin not playing them they are probably not ready. And count me in as one who would like to see them get minutes. I would however give them some of Dixon and Trimble minutes. Would not touch the 5 main guys minutes at all.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=303475]And my question is will they ever be able to get in sync unless they are provided the opportunity to get their feet wet in a real game?
[/quote]

My guess is he wants to see in practice that a player is doing what they are supposed to do and has that "understanding" and they get rewarded with PT. There is some definite logic here. A lot of our games and probably most, are going to be decided by having a good advantage on turnovers/possessions. In other words, less mistakes, low margin for error.
 
I think a big key for them would be to get in on the normal rotation with other starters in the game, not just mop up duty at the end of a blow out.
 
Everyone likes to see freshmen play hoping that they can get experience before league play. Mullin ball notwithstanding, the starters have yet to be able to put these much weaker OOC teams away so that the freshmen can play. Rutgers was the exception and even there they were relegated to garbage time.
The Cal freshmen played a total of 56 combined minutes. Of course much of the reason was because it was out of necessity and the rest of the team is mostly sophomores but Jones apparently had a lot more confidence that his freshmen were prepared for the game than Mullin had in his freshmen. I also think Mullin uses the seniority system his mentor coach Carnesecca used throughout his career.
The bottom line is I also agree with Jack Williams that the first 5 will be a little worn out by February if these freshmen are not going to see at least 5 minutes in key rest breaks. Of the freshmen the one that should be getting those minutes is Josh Roberts because Clark has been pushed to his limit in every game thus far. I'd hate to see Mullin lose another big to coaching indifference the way he has managed to do with Sima, Owens, Williams, Yakwe and Boubacar. Granted none of those were world beaters but they were all his players. We shouldn't have the unenviable reputation of leading the country in transfers in and out of the program.
 
count me in as someone that wants to see Williams and Roberts getting into the rotation. As far as Mullin, I am just stating what I think is the logic and approach. I don't think it is as simple as "Mullin is stubborn" or the other stupid attacks that have been made against Mullin being clueless etc.

Williams looks the most ready to me but I can see why everyone wants Roberts and his size and presence. Hopefully as others have said, after tonight they will have more opportunity and Mullin will use it. If they blow their chances then they do but get them some game time minutes against lesser comp to gain confidence.
 
Watching Trimble last night I couldn't help but think what is wrong with Williams that he can't get minutes. We heard such good things about his senior year and people expected him to get good minutes.

We have a lot of real dogs coming up. He has to get these 2 kids some minutes during Princeton, Wagner et al before the BE season starts.

It also begs the question to just how raw is Roberts. Cal played plenty of freshmen last night and he couldn't touch the floor.
 
[quote="gman" post=303489]Watching Trimble last night I couldn't help but think what is wrong with Williams that he can't get minutes. We heard such good things about his senior year and people expected him to get good minutes.

We have a lot of real dogs coming up. He has to get these 2 kids some minutes during Princeton, Wagner et al before the BE season starts.

It also begs the question to just how raw is Roberts. Cal played plenty of freshmen last night and he couldn't touch the floor.[/quote]

He was probably thinking: "I can't chance losing the Cal game by putting in freshmen, even though Cal did."
With this year being very important to Chris, I could see not putting in the freshmen. Gotta win the pre-season tourny.

With that said, with the chump teams coming up if we're winning in a blowout and they see 5minutes or less, I'm gonna say this (and I don't care if Beast and whoever else comes at me.), then Chris is a freaking IDIOT.
Anyone knows you need playing time to get experience to get better.
I gotta think Chris will give them plenty of minutes per game, he's smart.
 
Tonight is probably our biggest game prior to start of BE season. No way we should expect to see anything but the core seven we have seen, absent serious foul trouble or a blowout. Between now and the Seton Hall game opposition quality goes down and there should be plenty of opportunity to play frosh a bit.
 
Again, I am not defending Mullin but the starters have not put anyone away early to put the freshmen in the game except against Rutgers where they played hungry. Let's see if the older players like Clark, Simon and Ponds can get their frosh into the game because Mullin isn’t going to put them in if we are playing a close game.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=303533]Again, I am not defending Mullin but the starters have not put anyone away early to put the freshmen in the game except against Rutgers where they played hungry. Let's see if the older players like Clark, Simon and Ponds can get their frosh into the game because Mullin isn’t going to put them in if we are playing a close game.[/quote]

Last night could have been interesting when the fouls starting piling up in the 2nd half and Rik Smits Jr was in the game
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=303533]Again, I am not defending Mullin but the starters have not put anyone away early to put the freshmen in the game except against Rutgers where they played hungry. Let's see if the older players like Clark, Simon and Ponds can get their frosh into the game because Mullin isn’t going to put them in if we are playing a close game.[/quote]

The bigger criticism is not that the current freshmen have not played much but rather why is SJU not recruiting and landing BETTER freshmen who are good enough to play early minutes.

Again it comes down to better recruiting. Period. If you are going to rely on transfers who have to sit out a year and whiff on every major top recruit then this is a byproduct of that strategy, not sure why so many people are surprised.
 
Board ask yourself this: Substitute Greg Williams for Luther Muhammad. Substitute Earlington and Roberts for Naz Reid and Jordan Brown?

Think Trimble and Dixon are the only players coming off the bench under that scenario???

The people who say getting transfers is the SAME as getting top high school talent need to understand two things:
a) It is NOT the same and
b) There are consequences when you are have a combination of lower ranked HS recruits and transfers as part of a larger recruiting class. Eli Wright, David Caraher, Greg Williams, Marcellus Earlington and Josh Roberts are contributing how much to the success of this team on the court? That is 5 scholarship players.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=303536][quote="Class of 72" post=303533]Again, I am not defending Mullin but the starters have not put anyone away early to put the freshmen in the game except against Rutgers where they played hungry. Let's see if the older players like Clark, Simon and Ponds can get their frosh into the game because Mullin isn’t going to put them in if we are playing a close game.[/quote]

The bigger criticism is not that the current freshmen have not played much but rather why is SJU not recruiting and landing BETTER freshmen who are good enough to play early minutes.

Again it comes down to better recruiting. Period. If you are going to rely on transfers who have to sit out a year and whiff on every major top recruit then this is a byproduct of that strategy, not sure why so many people are surprised.[/quote]

That would be a better argument, but again because of Keita injury you are moving guys up in rotation. And again most teams generally only play 8. Only perennial top 10 teams have quality players that can contribute right away as there 9th and 10th men
 
[quote="fordham96" post=303541]Board ask yourself this: Substitute Greg Williams for Luther Muhammad. Substitute Earlington and Roberts for Naz Reid and Jordan Brown?

Think Trimble and Dixon are the only players coming off the bench under that scenario???

The people who say getting transfers is the SAME as getting top high school talent need to understand two things:
a) It is NOT the same and
b) There are consequences when you are have a combination of lower ranked HS recruits and transfers as part of a larger recruiting class. Eli Wright, David Caraher, Greg Williams, Marcellus Earlington and Josh Roberts are contributing how much to the success of this team on the court? That is 5 scholarship players.[/quote]

Needs to be a mix of now and future or we end up at Mullin's first year. With Reid or Brown alone and I think a lot of talk right now would be St Johns potential Final 4 not just cracking Top 25. So let's have a successful season, see how that affects recruiting but for now enjoy the season rather than rehashing this stuff?
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=303545][quote="fordham96" post=303541]Board ask yourself this: Substitute Greg Williams for Luther Muhammad. Substitute Earlington and Roberts for Naz Reid and Jordan Brown?

Think Trimble and Dixon are the only players coming off the bench under that scenario???

The people who say getting transfers is the SAME as getting top high school talent need to understand two things:
a) It is NOT the same and
b) There are consequences when you are have a combination of lower ranked HS recruits and transfers as part of a larger recruiting class. Eli Wright, David Caraher, Greg Williams, Marcellus Earlington and Josh Roberts are contributing how much to the success of this team on the court? That is 5 scholarship players.[/quote]

Needs to be a mix of now and future or we end up at Mullin's first year. With Reid or Brown alone and I think a lot of talk right now would be St Johns potential Final 4 not just cracking Top 25. So let's have a successful season, see how that affects recruiting but for now enjoy the season rather than rehashing this stuff?[/quote]

Agreed!! If we start having winning seasons and the recruting still doesn't pick up, then nit pick. I just don't think it's a good time to do so when we've been stated to have the most talented team in the Big East this year.
 
I understand but this is not nitpicking or not allowing for the season to play out.

When Justin Simon is guarding a 7 footer in the post because you don't have anyone you trust over 6-4 to bring in the game because of that recruiting strategy then that is the here and now...not next year.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=303556]I understand but this is not nitpicking or not allowing for the season to play out.

When Justin Simon is guarding a 7 footer in the post because you don't have anyone you trust over 6-4 to bring in the game because of that recruiting strategy then that is the here and now...not next year.[/quote]

And, if that 7 footer has bulk and talent, it becomes very unfair to Justin. He didn't leave Arizona to play center or power forward. He knows he has to play guard at the next level wherever that may be. You are right, we can't have 5 or 6 non contributors every season with sit outs and undertalented freshmen. This year we got lucky with Heron. Has he not qualified we may have a .500 Big East team instead of the best 5 in the conference. Need one high school stud per year. I hope it is Precious this season.
 
I believe it was Ponds who got beat by the 7'4 kid. Heron also did some good time against Rutgers bigs.
nobody is happy with that and it has been frustrating for just about all of us the recruiting the past 3 seasons especially the bigs. A good season and we should have a better shot with the hs kids we've been missing out on.
 
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