Player Retention

[quote="Beast of the East" post=274137]Very few of these kids think of their college commitment as 4 years. Very few care about an education - except Lavin's kids (who stayed), who all graduated on time.

When you build a program from dirt, guys who got playing time saw they could lose it quickly when better players were recruited. Some of the other stuff (Williams) and the kid who left after 2 days on campus is jsut insane. Lovett for that matter too.

In this era, just because someone has remaining eligibility does not mean you can count on anyone to be around the next season.[/quote] Correct. That said , if we loose the volume of players consistently, that we lost last year, we will be just spinning our wheels. The key is also to upgrade to high character kids.Lovett was a gamble. Worth taking at the time, but didn’t work out. Everyone keeps talking about immediate contributors. IMO a player like Willams should be real nice by his junior year. Perfect example is Nova. Seem to always have good upperclassmen. They don’t get Kentucky like recruits. But, have actually performed better than Kentucky. The secret is to reload, not rebuild.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=274105]Easy to rationalize that folks who left SJU did not mean much, but a down program seeking stability can’t be cavalier about that. I know we live in a transfer intense era, but we can’t afford the level of roster churn we have experienced too often. Here’s to reasonable continuity![/quote]

I agree, but I believe that roster stability will come with winning. Losing is no fun, and when that happens, you see players start to look elsewhere, which has happened to us all too often lately. How often do you see large numbers of key players transferring away from winning programs? I know we've got Clark and Simon, but the programs they came from kept reloading and didn't even blink when they left.
 
[quote="Room112" post=274146] I know we've got Clark and Simon, but the programs they came from kept reloading and didn't even blink when they left.[/quote]

That is not necessarily true. Michigan St. and Arizona have not blinked because it is difficult to even move while petrified over a FBI investigation.
 
In the old days, as a guy went from season to season, he earned more and more playing time. Most if the guys who left wete faced with the prospect of less and less because of the talent vacuum they arrived at. The answer may not be retention but anticipating defections and offsetting them with a deeper bench. Certainly as we reach the talent and depth level we want, this will slow.

I'd imagine most of our returning rotation players, sans yakwe, should see considerable action next year. But for sure each player evaluates that and makes his decisions on a season by season basis.
 
Say what you want about Cooley and Willard. They do retention well.

We need to figure that part out.
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=277092]Say what you want about Cooley and Willard. They do retention well.

We need to figure that part out.[/quote]

PC's senior class had two transfers and one went pro early. Their junior class had three transfers, including a 4 star player.

SHU's senior class had four transfer and two turn pro early. Their junior class had two transfers, including a 4 star and one dismissed from the team.

Here's the link

http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/seton-hall
 
And before we start praising that snake Kevin Willard, let's account for some facts. He inherited a squad with 5 high major players - Jeff Robinson and Hazell as seniors, Theodore and Pope as juniors, and Edwin as a freshman. Not a great roster, but not bad either. And a core 5 that would run circles around the kids that Mullin inherited and ultimately could land when you start assembling a roster from scratch in March. Despite that, Willard didn't make his first NCAA until Year 6; and that was only after he entered into a deal with the devil with Tiny Morton that could have negative ramifications for that program over the next few years. And, in Year 8, he won his first NCAA tournament game.

Continuity is a good thing. It is up to the staff and Coach to have a roster with both depth and quality, and continuity is a big part of that. Absolutely they need to make sure we have a good squad next year. That falls on them. But if Mullin doesn't make his first tourney until Year 6, like that snake Willard, people won't be pleased.
 
It sucks to see kids leave, but this isn’t just an SJU problem. Over 40% of D1 players leave before their sophomore season and that drives the 5th year transfers (like Owens). I’ve been vocal they should get rid of the grad transfers. I think they should give kids a one-time transfer waiver where they don’t have to sit out. I transferred colleges. I get that sometimes things don’t work out.

Our problem is being exacerbated because we haven’t had a full roster due to coaching turnover.
 
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I find it odd that many on this board consistently dump on Cooley and Willard as we look up at them in the standings year after year. These guys are making the tournament. I am hanging in there with Mullin, but there is reality.

Seton Hall hung onto their core of Carrington, Desi and Delgado for 4 years. Yes, Whitehead went pro, but Delgado could have entered the draft last year and the other two starters never hinted at transferring.

Cooley has a knack for keeping his point guard through their senior year and it pays dividend (Dunn, Cotton, Cartwright). Yes, they have both had transfers, but not at the rate we are experiencing.
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=277130]I find it odd that many on this board consistently dump on Cooley and Willard as we look up at them in the standings year after year. These guys are making the tournament. I am hanging in there with Mullin, but there is reality.

Seton Hall hung onto their core of Carrington, Desi and Delgado for 4 years. Yes, Whitehead went pro, but Delgado could have entered the draft last year and the other two starters never hinted at transferring.

Cooley has a knack for keeping his point guard through their senior year and it pays dividend (Dunn, Cotton, Cartwright). Yes, they have both had transfers, but not at the rate we are experiencing.[/quote]

Once again, it's an easy thing to pitch to kids to stay when you're winning and making the NCAA tourney every year. Both of those teams have made the NCAA tourney alot recently and both even won the big east tourney recently. When was the last time we were able to sell our kids on success? I believe we're slowing moving in that direction but there are bumps in the road.
 
Didn't dump on Cooley at all. He has made 5 straight dances, and made them relatively quickly. He hasn't performed well in the NCAA's, and lost his fair share of transfers or brought in kids with issues that didn't pan out (Ledo, Austin, etc), but what he's done really, really well is figure out how to patch a roster hole when needed (like this year with Holt getting injured). Cooley's done a great job.

My post was focused on Willard. Inherited a solid core, still struggled for 5 years, and had to do something that may get the program in trouble in order to turn the corner in year 6. Credit goes to him for 3 years dancing in a row, winning a game this year and keeping the core together minus Whitehead, but I'm not confident his run will continue when those kids graduate this year. Not at all.


[quote="JohnnyFan" post=277130]I find it odd that many on this board consistently dump on Cooley and Willard as we look up at them in the standings year after year. These guys are making the tournament. I am hanging in there with Mullin, but there is reality.

Seton Hall hung onto their core of Carrington, Desi and Delgado for 4 years. Yes, Whitehead went pro, but Delgado could have entered the draft last year and the other two starters never hinted at transferring.

Cooley has a knack for keeping his point guard through their senior year and it pays dividend (Dunn, Cotton, Cartwright). Yes, they have both had transfers, but not at the rate we are experiencing.[/quote]
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=277130]I find it odd that many on this board consistently dump on Cooley and Willard as we look up at them in the standings year after year. These guys are making the tournament. I am hanging in there with Mullin, but there is reality.

Seton Hall hung onto their core of Carrington, Desi and Delgado for 4 years. Yes, Whitehead went pro, but Delgado could have entered the draft last year and the other two starters never hinted at transferring.

Cooley has a knack for keeping his point guard through their senior year and it pays dividend (Dunn, Cotton, Cartwright). Yes, they have both had transfers, but not at the rate we are experiencing.[/quote]

Johnny Fan, If Mullin stays here through year six we'll see the rate settle to the average of two or three per year. It has not helped that we have not had stability in the leadership of the program. Many of us wanted the last two coaching changes. You can push for coaching changes every four or five years, but this is what comes with it.
 
[quote="OLV72" post=277266][quote="JohnnyFan" post=277130]I find it odd that many on this board consistently dump on Cooley and Willard as we look up at them in the standings year after year. These guys are making the tournament. I am hanging in there with Mullin, but there is reality.

Seton Hall hung onto their core of Carrington, Desi and Delgado for 4 years. Yes, Whitehead went pro, but Delgado could have entered the draft last year and the other two starters never hinted at transferring.

Cooley has a knack for keeping his point guard through their senior year and it pays dividend (Dunn, Cotton, Cartwright). Yes, they have both had transfers, but not at the rate we are experiencing.[/quote]

Johnny Fan, If Mullin stays here through year six we'll see the rate settle to the average of two or three per year. It has not helped that we have not had stability in the leadership of the program. Many of us wanted the last two coaching changes. You can push for coaching changes every four or five years, but this is what comes with it.[/quote]

Agreed. To be clear, I am not advocating for a coaching change.
 
Does APR still exist?
If so schools must be cooking the books like never before to get around that with so many departures every year.
 
[quote="Moose" post=277326]Does APR still exist?
If so schools must be cooking the books like never before to get around that with so many departures every year.[/quote]

More schools hiring "phantom students" to finish second semesters with easy graders.
 
College basketball players must be the best students these days. They all graduate early and never sit for a bad academic semester.
 
[quote="OLV72" post=277410]College basketball players must be the best students these days. They all graduate early and never sit for a bad academic semester.[/quote]

It’s a lot easier to graduate early when you are taking classes in the summer besides spring and fall,
semesters.
 
[quote="SJU85" post=277412]
It’s a lot easier to graduate early when you are taking classes in the summer besides spring and fall,
semesters.[/quote]
... or if you attend the University of North Carolina and take fake academic classes.
 
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