Player Retention

JohnnyFan

JohnnyFan

Well-known member
2023 $upporter
While I am a supporter of the current staff, I do think they need to do a better job with player retention. This year, the momentum of our program's rebuild will ride on the return of four starters......Ponds, Simon, Clarke and Owens. Admittedly, Ponds may have unique options that reach beyond the staff's control.

Last year's departures
M. Ellison
F. Mussini
D. Williams
Y. Sima

In hind sight, had the staff been able to retain just one or two of these departures, we would have been in much better shape. I still don't think this would have been our year to make a deep NCAA run, but depth matters and winning helps recruiting. I omitted Sid Wilson, since I can't hang that circus show on the staff.
 
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Your correct. It’s a topic not talked about that much. But, a big reason for our lack of depth. Let’s hope we retain our core. We don’t have any impact recruits coming in, so we can’t afford any major defections.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=273362]While I am a supporter of the current staff, I do think they need to do a better job with player retention. This year, the momentum of our program's rebuild will ride on the return of four starters......Ponds, Simon, Clarke and Owens. Admittedly, Ponds may have unique options that reach beyond the staff's control.

Last year's departures
M. Ellison
F. Mussini
D. Williams
Y. Sima

In hind sight, had the staff been able to retain just one or two of these departures, we would have been in much better shape. I still don't think this would have been our year to make a deep NCAA run, but depth matters and winning helps recruiting. I omitted Sid Wilson, since I can't hang that circus show on the staff.[/quote]

You can blame Lovett on the first two. Darren was just kicked out of Grad school and Sima is averaging 3.5 pts per game and has a negative defensive rating. As Mullin system and style continues to permeate around the program I believe our player retention rates will normalize.
 
Agree with SJU grad 13 that Mussini & Ellison were gone with Simon, Lovett & Ponds ahead of them and staff had no way to know Lovett wouldn't be available so can't fault them at all on those.
With respect to Sima, at time he left Yakwe was ahead of him in rotation and while he is putting up slighter better numbers than Yakwe did when playing this year, it is not enough to make a big difference.
I do think Williams could have been a big help to us this year as first big off the bench and wish we'd done more to retain him. Suspect his dismissal from Nevada program was combination of him becoming dissatisfied with no playing time and not keeping up with grades. He would have played more with us and always appeared to be good team guy with us even when he wasn't playing.
 
While most of these players would have helped with out depth this year, none of them would have helped us win many more games. Mussini's shooting, Sima's height, Ellison's defense etc would have helped, but were weren't making it to the NCAA Tournament with any one of those guys here.

Remember, every one of these players were "not a BE level player" by many people on this board.
 
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[quote="SJU14" post=273369]While most of these players would have helped with out depth this year, none of them would have helped us win many more games. Mussini's shooting, Sima's height, Ellison's defense etc would have helped, but were weren't making it to the NCAA Tournament with any one of those guys here.

Remember, every one of these players were "not a BE level player" by many people on this board.[/quote]

Sima was the big loss. He was a legit 5 and that is where we are weak. Mussini was leaving and it had nothing to do with Simon. Ellison going to the bottomless PITT is ironic. Yes, Yakwe was put ahead of Sima and THAT was as bone head a move by Mullin as not playing him at all now.:pinch: :whistle:
Retention has been a major issue and has kept the "revival" in Flux.
 
[quote="SJU14" post=273369]While most of these players would have helped with out depth this year, none of them would have helped us win many more games. Mussini's shooting, Sima's height, Ellison's defense etc would have helped, but were weren't making it to the NCAA Tournament with any one of those guys here.

Remember, every one of these players were "not a BE level player" by many people on this board.[/quote]

By people on this board is a qualifier. FWIW Sima is playing in the B12, Ellison is in the ACC and Mussini is a pro in top level Italian league. Would any of them been stars on this team? No. But to say that better quality depth would not affect the win total is likely not accurate, whether it would have been enough to get on the bubble, probably not, but we probably would not have had to witness that 11 game losing streak . And I say this while everyone knows I was glad to see Fred and Ellison leave when I thought there were warm bodies to replace them.
 
No question that player retention was huge factor this year. Not only in depth but huge loss in experience. Mussini, Ellison, Williams and Sima were all veteran players. Add in loss of Lovett - just too much to make up.
 
In hindsight player retention appears to be a problem but in reality the staff probably only felt Sima was a loss and to a lesser extent Ellison who was not going to get major minutes because of Simon.
As of Labor Day Ponds, LoVett, Bashir, Clark and Simon were starting with Owens as sixth man. Trimble, Wilson and Yawke were seven to nine. The staff preferred the three red shirts to any of the players who left who were not big east players.
No improvement in Yawke's or Ali's game has hurt, Wilson' s defection and worst of all a season ending injury to LoVett was a game changer.
A tough season but hopefully the three red shirts will all perform better next year than those who left.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=273362]While I am a supporter of the current staff, I do think they need to do a better job with player retention. This year, the momentum of our program's rebuild will ride on the return of four starters......Ponds, Simon, Clarke and Owens. Admittedly, Ponds may have unique options that reach beyond the staff's control.

Last year's departures
M. Ellison
F. Mussini
D. Williams
Y. Sima

In hind sight, had the staff been able to retain just one or two of these departures, we would have been in much better shape. I still don't think this would have been our year to make a deep NCAA run, but depth matters and winning helps recruiting. I omitted Sid Wilson, since I can't hang that circus show on the staff.[/quote]

You also omitted Freudenberg.
 
72, you must be kidding to think Sims was a big loss . No insult intended but, Sima was nothing , except Tall . Even Yakwe has more skill and that is not a strong endorsement , is it .. Both , Yakwe and Sima were/ are disappointing in performance . Yakwe played poorly enough to get a nice seat on the Bench . If there is more there than just poor play , it hasn’t come out and for team unity , maybe it shouldn’t . Ali also has earned his seat and while they are capable of a few minute respite for the 5 Starters , opponents usually exploited them at will when they were playing . They basically produced nothing , except poor play , bad shooting , porous defense and Reviews from fans as to why they were playing . Both, Yakwe and Ali were better , not much , last year .
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=273362]While I am a supporter of the current staff, I do think they need to do a better job with player retention. This year, the momentum of our program's rebuild will ride on the return of four starters......Ponds, Simon, Clarke and Owens. Admittedly, Ponds may have unique options that reach beyond the staff's control.

Last year's departures
M. Ellison
F. Mussini
D. Williams
Y. Sima

In hind sight, had the staff been able to retain just one or two of these departures, we would have been in much better shape. I still don't think this would have been our year to make a deep NCAA run, but depth matters and winning helps recruiting. I omitted Sid Wilson, since I can't hang that circus show on the staff.[/quote]

Thanks Johnny but let's not forget EVERY program has changes, transfers, errors and omissions not just SJU - human nature = we tend to focus almost exclusively on ourselves, our kids, our jobs, our tiny universe -
that being said, of course we remain hopeful that CM and company will recruit and retain better -

on the bright side - for me anyway - I think next year will be fun if we have the same starters and sprinkle in the kids who are already at school or who have committed.

I will so much appreciate and enjoy our 2018-19 Ws and the possibility of a winning record & tournament - just because we have all endured such disappointment.
Thanks again!

BTW old news - underlying our problems this year = lack of depth/no bench, fatigue at the end of games and minimal room for loss - Lovett alone would have brought conservatively 2-3 more Ws, possible tournament and turned the entire season into better light.
 
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Easy to rationalize that folks who left SJU did not mean much, but a down program seeking stability can’t be cavalier about that. I know we live in a transfer intense era, but we can’t afford the level of roster churn we have experienced too often. Here’s to reasonable continuity!
 
No doubt the hope! And I’m sure Staff is all over this at this point. Comtinuing departures at the pace we’ve witnessed do not confound—it reverses any but the most exceptional recruiting ‘haul’.
 
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[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=274087]72, you must be kidding to think Sims was a big loss . No insult intended but, Sima was nothing , except Tall . Even Yakwe has more skill and that is not a strong endorsement , is it .. Both , Yakwe and Sima were/ are disappointing in performance . Yakwe played poorly enough to get a nice seat on the Bench . If there is more there than just poor play , it hasn’t come out and for team unity , maybe it shouldn’t . Ali also has earned his seat and while they are capable of a few minute respite for the 5 Starters , opponents usually exploited them at will when they were playing . They basically produced nothing , except poor play , bad shooting , porous defense and Reviews from fans as to why they were playing . Both, Yakwe and Ali were better , not much , last year .[/quote]

Slyfox, that bar closed a long time ago! Where are drinking these days?;)
You must be confusing "positions". Sima was a 6'11, 225lb center. Yakwe and Alibegovic are not. Neither is Owens. The kid was good for 6 points, 5 rebounds and 3 blocks per game in 15 minutes. I would trade BOTH Yakwe and Alibegovic for him right now.
I think he made a mistake to transfer and it hurt the team.
 
For any of the four players mentioned as players that could have helped this year, Sima , Mussini, Ellison and Williams the staff would have had to drop one of the players who started the season as active players or one of the three red shirts.
They might have wanted to retain Sima because of our lack of big men but I doubt if the other three would not have been retained.
Wilson's leaving and LoVett's injury in hindsight make the staff's decisions look bad but if the three red shirts don't contribute more than Mussini, Ellison and Williams that will be disastrous.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=274105]Easy to rationalize that folks who left SJU did not mean much, but a down program seeking stability can’t be cavalier about that. I know we live in a transfer intense era, but we can’t afford the level of roster churn we have experienced too often. Here’s to reasonable continuity![/quote] Well said. And we re not going to recruit like Kentucky. Our best shot of long term success is to recruit good players, have them stay , develop and produce as upperclassman. Hopefully we can sprinkle in the occasional great player.
 
Very few of these kids think of their college commitment as 4 years. Very few care about an education - except Lavin's kids (who stayed), who all graduated on time.

When you build a program from dirt, guys who got playing time saw they could lose it quickly when better players were recruited. Some of the other stuff (Williams) and the kid who left after 2 days on campus is jsut insane. Lovett for that matter too.

In this era, just because someone has remaining eligibility does not mean you can count on anyone to be around the next season.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=274137]Very few of these kids think of their college commitment as 4 years. Very few care about an education - except Lavin's kids (who stayed), who all graduated on time.

When you build a program from dirt, guys who got playing time saw they could lose it quickly when better players were recruited. Some of the other stuff (Williams) and the kid who left after 2 days on campus is jsut insane. Lovett for that matter too.

In this era, just because someone has remaining eligibility does not mean you can count on anyone to be around the next season.[/quote]

Sid Wilson spent more than 2 days. He attended the first summer session and is the reason he is sitting out. The FBI should check his cell phone records to connect the dots to UCONN and the amount of $ Wilson senior got.
 
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