Player Improvement

[boo haarvey]

With our recent stellar play, I've noticed a number of posts discussing the improvement of or players. Indeed, it is undeniable that Pointer, Green, Harrison (when healthy) and even Jordan, notwithstanding his turnovers, have all elevated their games significantly from last year.

The one person who hasn't in my opinion is Chris Obekpa. I find that to be ironic bc I recall at the beginning of the season Lavin pronouncing, in his typical hyperbole, that Obekpa had improved more than any player he had ever seen.

I recognize that Obekpa is not anywhere 100 percent at the moment, but I think it's fair to characterize his play this year as a disappointment.

As good as we are offensively, I can't help thinking how much better we would be if Obekpa was at least an average offensive player.

 

[FKASJU]

With our recent stellar play, I've noticed a number of posts discussing the improvement of or players. Indeed, it is undeniable that Pointer, Green, Harrison (when healthy) and even Jordan, notwithstanding his turnovers, have all elevated their games significantly from last year.

The one person who hasn't in my opinion is Chris Obekpa. I find that to be ironic bc I recall at the beginning of the season Lavin pronouncing, in his typical hyperbole, that Obekpa had improved more than any player he had ever seen.

I recognize that Obekpa is not anywhere 100 percent at the moment, but I think it's fair to characterize his play this year as a disappointment.

As good as we are offensively, I can't help thinking how much better we would be if Obekpa was at least an average offensive player.

It would certainly be helpful if he could contribute 10 ppg, but i think you are forgetting how truly limited his offensive game was prior to this year. At least he has added that baseline jumper this season. He is also definitely looking for his own shot more now and does consistently work to get open. I think the key issue is that he clearly gets disappointed when he puts in the work down low and no one ever looks to get him the ball. Part of that is because he isnt very productive with the rock, but im sure that gets very frustrating as well.

 

[westchesterjoe]

CO has instinctive Shot Blocking Skills that are impressive.

That being acknowledged , he does not have those instincts offensively and it is a point well taken that he has serious flaws that have defied improvement. Free throw shooting is a problem for him,and he misses 2 at a time frequently. That's like giving the other team a turnover possession.

Other than blocking shots, he really isn't a good defensive player and only a average rebounder overall. He is not a good offensive rebounder.

Still, his shot blocking contributes to the TEAM'S success.

 

[stjohnnie75]

CO has instinctive Shot Blocking Skills that are impressive.

That being acknowledged , he does not have those instincts offensively and it is a point well taken that he has serious flaws that have defied improvement. Free throw shooting is a problem for him,and he misses 2 at a time frequently. That's like giving the other team a turnover possession.

Other than blocking shots, he really isn't a good defensive player and only a average rebounder overall. He is not a good offensive rebounder.

Still, his shot blocking contributes to the TEAM'S success.

IMO, CO would average a bunch more rebounds if he didn't try to block every shot. You need to weigh the good with the bad. With the team winning I wouldn't change a thing.

I give him credit for his improved base line jump shot.

 

[Knight]

CO needs another year to develop that part of his game.

 

[cappy105]

With our recent stellar play, I've noticed a number of posts discussing the improvement of or players. Indeed, it is undeniable that Pointer, Green, Harrison (when healthy) and even Jordan, notwithstanding his turnovers, have all elevated their games significantly from last year.

The one person who hasn't in my opinion is Chris Obekpa. I find that to be ironic bc I recall at the beginning of the season Lavin pronouncing, in his typical hyperbole, that Obekpa had improved more than any player he had ever seen.

I recognize that Obekpa is not anywhere 100 percent at the moment, but I think it's fair to characterize his play this year as a disappointment.

As good as we are offensively, I can't help thinking how much better we would be if Obekpa was at least an average offensive player.

funny, a bunch of scouts have him as the only Pro player. I think they all improved this year. We had lapses as a TEAM, but when these guys play together, we can run with anyone. Obekpa developed that short shot which he makes most of the time. He has rebounded better than last year, and his foot work has improved too. He plays even the best talent tough ( Cuse, Zags, etc). Is his offensive game limited? yes, but I didnt expect him to turn into Marcus Hatten either.
Go Johnnies!!!! GTown next!!!

 

[cappy105]

oh, and im 100% behind he and Jordan staying. Think they both would be foolish leaving early. Just look around the league.

 

[stjohnschris]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

 

[JacStorm]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

So, if you're going to blame 'bad coaching' for the things that CO doesn't do well, then you have to give credit to the coaches for the exceptional and inarguable improvement across the rest of the roster. D'lo, IV, SirDom to a huge degree. Cliff has improved, Sheed is showing signs of 'getting it' and even Amar in his short time here has made big strides.

Overall, a huge 'thumbs up' for the staff, right? Right?

 

[TonyinFairfield]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

So, if you're going to blame 'bad coaching' for the things that CO doesn't do well, then you have to give credit to the coaches for the exceptional and inarguable improvement across the rest of the roster. D'lo, IV, SirDom to a huge degree. Cliff has improved, Sheed is showing signs of 'getting it' and even Amar in his short time here has made big strides.

Overall, a huge 'thumbs up' for the staff, right? Right?

Agree, Jac. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any thumbs up for the staff from the posters who want Lavin out of here. Haven't you gotten the message yet? Everything that goes wrong is Lavin's fault, and everything that goes right is due to the players themselves?

 

[room112]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

I will admit that player develop has been a huge concern to me over the past few years. That being said, none of us have any idea of what's going on behind the scenes, and at some point the player has to put the work in to improve, it's not only on the coach. If you want to blame the coach for anything, it's bringing in certain talented players who aren't coachable.

 

[logen]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

So, if you're going to blame 'bad coaching' for the things that CO doesn't do well, then you have to give credit to the coaches for the exceptional and inarguable improvement across the rest of the roster. D'lo, IV, SirDom to a huge degree. Cliff has improved, Sheed is showing signs of 'getting it' and even Amar in his short time here has made big strides.

Overall, a huge 'thumbs up' for the staff, right? Right?

Agree, Jac. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any thumbs up for the staff from the posters who want Lavin out of here. Haven't you gotten the message yet? Everything that goes wrong is Lavin's fault, and everything that goes right is due to the players themselves?

I always tell myself why bother but I always do - we have 3 highly rated players in their senior years (Harrison, Pointer, and Branch); we have a highly rated player in his junior year (Obepka); we have a highly rated player in his sophomore year (Jordan.) We have another essential four year starter (Greene). Very experienced, highly rated players that have never made the NCAA'a and are currently a bubble team. Is this what all you cheerleaders envisioned when Lavin recruited these players? Again, I am rooting like hell for this team and love watching them THIS YEAR but it took four years to get even to this point so excuse me if I am not dusting off a place for SL in the HOF. Is this team playing better ball, are they better coached and the players improved? Yes, no question. Should Lavin get credit for that? Again, yes, no question. Has it changed my long term opinion of him leading us forward? No. Funny, all you cheerleaders asked guys to step back and let the season play out but you have no qualms with throwing needles out every time someone posts something you disagree with. The measuring stick for a coach in the BE is SOME success in the post-season and he has had none excepting his first year. I envisioned having a program after 5 years and it is just not there. Say I am unfair, say whatever but I say look at the body of work and the prospects going forward. And again, I clearly seperate ROOTING for SJU which I always, do every minute of every game for every player and my view on the direction the program should take for the long term.

 

[TonyinFairfield]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

So, if you're going to blame 'bad coaching' for the things that CO doesn't do well, then you have to give credit to the coaches for the exceptional and inarguable improvement across the rest of the roster. D'lo, IV, SirDom to a huge degree. Cliff has improved, Sheed is showing signs of 'getting it' and even Amar in his short time here has made big strides.

Overall, a huge 'thumbs up' for the staff, right? Right?

Agree, Jac. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any thumbs up for the staff from the posters who want Lavin out of here. Haven't you gotten the message yet? Everything that goes wrong is Lavin's fault, and everything that goes right is due to the players themselves?

I always tell myself why bother but I always do - we have 3 highly rated players in their senior years (Harrison, Pointer, and Branch); we have a highly rated player in his junior year (Obepka); we have a highly rated player in his sophomore year (Jordan.) We have another essential four year starter (Greene). Very experienced, highly rated players that have never made the NCAA'a and are currently a bubble team. Is this what all you cheerleaders envisioned when Lavin recruited these players? Again, I am rooting like hell for this team and love watching them THIS YEAR but it took four years to get even to this point so excuse me if I am not dusting off a place for SL in the HOF. Is this team playing better ball, are they better coached and the players improved? Yes, no question. Should Lavin get credit for that? Again, yes, no question. Has it changed my long term opinion of him leading us forward? No. Funny, all you cheerleaders asked guys to step back and let the season play out but you have no qualms with throwing needles out every time someone posts something you disagree with. The measuring stick for a coach in the BE is SOME success in the post-season and he has had none excepting his first year. I envisioned having a program after 5 years and it is just not there. Say I am unfair, say whatever but I say look at the body of work and the prospects going forward. And again, I clearly seperate ROOTING for SJU which I always, do every minute of every game for every player and my view on the direction the program should take for the long term.

You obviously don't read my posts if you think I am a "cheerleader." :huh:

And you never throw "needles" out when you disagree with someone? You just did it with this last post! I've got no problem with that. We disagree. That's cool. Not everyone agrees with everything.

So, yes, I will continue to selectively post when I disagree with someone. As I expect you to. It's what makes this forum so interesting.

Bottom line for me is no, I do not favor a coaching change right now. There is no guarantee that anyone new will not bring us back to the Norm years.

 

[stjohnnie75]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

So, if you're going to blame 'bad coaching' for the things that CO doesn't do well, then you have to give credit to the coaches for the exceptional and inarguable improvement across the rest of the roster. D'lo, IV, SirDom to a huge degree. Cliff has improved, Sheed is showing signs of 'getting it' and even Amar in his short time here has made big strides.

Overall, a huge 'thumbs up' for the staff, right? Right?

Agree, Jac. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any thumbs up for the staff from the posters who want Lavin out of here. Haven't you gotten the message yet? Everything that goes wrong is Lavin's fault, and everything that goes right is due to the players themselves?

I always tell myself why bother but I always do - we have 3 highly rated players in their senior years (Harrison, Pointer, and Branch); we have a highly rated player in his junior year (Obepka); we have a highly rated player in his sophomore year (Jordan.) We have another essential four year starter (Greene). Very experienced, highly rated players that have never made the NCAA'a and are currently a bubble team. Is this what all you cheerleaders envisioned when Lavin recruited these players? Again, I am rooting like hell for this team and love watching them THIS YEAR but it took four years to get even to this point so excuse me if I am not dusting off a place for SL in the HOF. Is this team playing better ball, are they better coached and the players improved? Yes, no question. Should Lavin get credit for that? Again, yes, no question. Has it changed my long term opinion of him leading us forward? No. Funny, all you cheerleaders asked guys to step back and let the season play out but you have no qualms with throwing needles out every time someone posts something you disagree with. The measuring stick for a coach in the BE is SOME success in the post-season and he has had none excepting his first year. I envisioned having a program after 5 years and it is just not there. Say I am unfair, say whatever but I say look at the body of work and the prospects going forward. And again, I clearly seperate ROOTING for SJU which I always, do every minute of every game for every player and my view on the direction the program should take for the long term.

No one said anything about Lavin and the HOF. Just silly to always point out the bad things without ever giving credit for some good things.

 

[beast of the east]

With our recent stellar play, I've noticed a number of posts discussing the improvement of or players. Indeed, it is undeniable that Pointer, Green, Harrison (when healthy) and even Jordan, notwithstanding his turnovers, have all elevated their games significantly from last year.

The one person who hasn't in my opinion is Chris Obekpa. I find that to be ironic bc I recall at the beginning of the season Lavin pronouncing, in his typical hyperbole, that Obekpa had improved more than any player he had ever seen.

I recognize that Obekpa is not anywhere 100 percent at the moment, but I think it's fair to characterize his play this year as a disappointment.

As good as we are offensively, I can't help thinking how much better we would be if Obekpa was at least an average offensive player.

Don't agree. Obekpa came to us devoid of all offensive skills, against anybody. Last year he showed signs of improvement against early lesser opponents, but was still not ready for Big East play offensively. This year he's added a hook shot, 12-15 foot jumper form the corners, and can put the ball on the floor a little - even a reverse. If he continues this improvement, one more season and he could be a double digit scorer here. Just my opinion.

 

[stjohnschris]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

I will admit that player develop has been a huge concern to me over the past few years. That being said, none of us have any idea of what's going on behind the scenes, and at some point the player has to put the work in to improve, it's not only on the coach. If you want to blame the coach for anything, it's bringing in certain talented players who aren't coachable.

I'm not a fan of Lavin, I admit that, but I don't think he's devoid of coaching skills. I have no problem giving him some credit for a nice run in the past 2+ weeks. It seems it's coming from more of a motivational and confidence place than it is from X's and O's place (stating the obvoius, I know)...and I'm fine with that. That's his strongsuit, and like Logen, I WANT these guys to win achieve success THIS YEAR. The big picture and body of work is the same, and will be the same as long as he's the head coach. Player development has fallen short, year after year. Game plans and in-game coaching decisions have fallen short, year after year. CO is an improved player from last year, but what we saw in November is exactly what we are seeing in February. I would like to think that for the money SJU is spending, we would see better results than a bubble team year after year.

 

[1and1sju]

With our recent stellar play, I've noticed a number of posts discussing the improvement of or players. Indeed, it is undeniable that Pointer, Green, Harrison (when healthy) and even Jordan, notwithstanding his turnovers, have all elevated their games significantly from last year.

The one person who hasn't in my opinion is Chris Obekpa. I find that to be ironic bc I recall at the beginning of the season Lavin pronouncing, in his typical hyperbole, that Obekpa had improved more than any player he had ever seen.

I recognize that Obekpa is not anywhere 100 percent at the moment, but I think it's fair to characterize his play this year as a disappointment.

As good as we are offensively, I can't help thinking how much better we would be if Obekpa was at least an average offensive player.

Don't agree. Obekpa came to us devoid of all offensive skills, against anybody. Last year he showed signs of improvement against early lesser opponents, but was still not ready for Big East play offensively. This year he's added a hook shot, 12-15 foot jumper form the corners, and can put the ball on the floor a little - even a reverse. If he continues this improvement, one more season and he could be a double digit scorer here. Just my opinion.

I agree completely. No one is saying he's a perfect player, but Obekpa has made some significant improvements since he's been here. Most notably in the areas of rebounding and on offense.

I actually think we would see his offensive skill a little more if the team focused on slipping him the ball more often on pick and rolls. Jordan is the only ballhandler we have who regularly looks to get the ball to the pick man if he is trapped or doubled. Branch to a lesser extent.
And in general, for all his faults, Jordan will look for the inside pass. Obekpa has gone up meekly a few times, but in general I think he's improved quite a bit.

 

[logen]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

So, if you're going to blame 'bad coaching' for the things that CO doesn't do well, then you have to give credit to the coaches for the exceptional and inarguable improvement across the rest of the roster. D'lo, IV, SirDom to a huge degree. Cliff has improved, Sheed is showing signs of 'getting it' and even Amar in his short time here has made big strides.

Overall, a huge 'thumbs up' for the staff, right? Right?

Agree, Jac. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any thumbs up for the staff from the posters who want Lavin out of here. Haven't you gotten the message yet? Everything that goes wrong is Lavin's fault, and everything that goes right is due to the players themselves?

I always tell myself why bother but I always do - we have 3 highly rated players in their senior years (Harrison, Pointer, and Branch); we have a highly rated player in his junior year (Obepka); we have a highly rated player in his sophomore year (Jordan.) We have another essential four year starter (Greene). Very experienced, highly rated players that have never made the NCAA'a and are currently a bubble team. Is this what all you cheerleaders envisioned when Lavin recruited these players? Again, I am rooting like hell for this team and love watching them THIS YEAR but it took four years to get even to this point so excuse me if I am not dusting off a place for SL in the HOF. Is this team playing better ball, are they better coached and the players improved? Yes, no question. Should Lavin get credit for that? Again, yes, no question. Has it changed my long term opinion of him leading us forward? No. Funny, all you cheerleaders asked guys to step back and let the season play out but you have no qualms with throwing needles out every time someone posts something you disagree with. The measuring stick for a coach in the BE is SOME success in the post-season and he has had none excepting his first year. I envisioned having a program after 5 years and it is just not there. Say I am unfair, say whatever but I say look at the body of work and the prospects going forward. And again, I clearly seperate ROOTING for SJU which I always, do every minute of every game for every player and my view on the direction the program should take for the long term.

You obviously don't read my posts if you think I am a "cheerleader." :huh:

And you never throw "needles" out when you disagree with someone? You just did it with this last post! I've got no problem with that. We disagree. That's cool. Not everyone agrees with everything.

So, yes, I will continue to selectively post when I disagree with someone. As I expect you to. It's what makes this forum so interesting.

Bottom line for me is no, I do not favor a coaching change right now. There is no guarantee that anyone new will not bring us back to the Norm years.

So you are not a cheerleader which means you can criticize but others can't? As far as Lavin, as I have said before IMO if we keep him because we're afraid we can't get a better coach than him we should get out of the BE.

 

[stjohnnie75]

CO blocks shots, extremely well, but that's it right now. He is still a liability on offense. His overall defense and rebounding should be better than it is, and I attribute that to poor coaching. He showed marked progress at the beginning of the season by squaring up and hitting a few 10 foot jump shots. That's lovely, but this is a guy who should be posting up as well as rolling toward to the hoop after he sets a pick.

So, if you're going to blame 'bad coaching' for the things that CO doesn't do well, then you have to give credit to the coaches for the exceptional and inarguable improvement across the rest of the roster. D'lo, IV, SirDom to a huge degree. Cliff has improved, Sheed is showing signs of 'getting it' and even Amar in his short time here has made big strides.

Overall, a huge 'thumbs up' for the staff, right? Right?

Agree, Jac. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any thumbs up for the staff from the posters who want Lavin out of here. Haven't you gotten the message yet? Everything that goes wrong is Lavin's fault, and everything that goes right is due to the players themselves?

I always tell myself why bother but I always do - we have 3 highly rated players in their senior years (Harrison, Pointer, and Branch); we have a highly rated player in his junior year (Obepka); we have a highly rated player in his sophomore year (Jordan.) We have another essential four year starter (Greene). Very experienced, highly rated players that have never made the NCAA'a and are currently a bubble team. Is this what all you cheerleaders envisioned when Lavin recruited these players? Again, I am rooting like hell for this team and love watching them THIS YEAR but it took four years to get even to this point so excuse me if I am not dusting off a place for SL in the HOF. Is this team playing better ball, are they better coached and the players improved? Yes, no question. Should Lavin get credit for that? Again, yes, no question. Has it changed my long term opinion of him leading us forward? No. Funny, all you cheerleaders asked guys to step back and let the season play out but you have no qualms with throwing needles out every time someone posts something you disagree with. The measuring stick for a coach in the BE is SOME success in the post-season and he has had none excepting his first year. I envisioned having a program after 5 years and it is just not there. Say I am unfair, say whatever but I say look at the body of work and the prospects going forward. And again, I clearly seperate ROOTING for SJU which I always, do every minute of every game for every player and my view on the direction the program should take for the long term.

You obviously don't read my posts if you think I am a "cheerleader." :huh:

And you never throw "needles" out when you disagree with someone? You just did it with this last post! I've got no problem with that. We disagree. That's cool. Not everyone agrees with everything.

So, yes, I will continue to selectively post when I disagree with someone. As I expect you to. It's what makes this forum so interesting.

Bottom line for me is no, I do not favor a coaching change right now. There is no guarantee that anyone new will not bring us back to the Norm years.

So you are not a cheerleader which means you can criticize but others can't? As far as Lavin, as I have said before IMO if we keep him because we're afraid we can't get a better coach than him we should get out of the BE.

But we should stay in the BE by replacing Lavin with a mid-major coach?

 

[bamafan]

CO needs another year to develop that part of his game.

At the rate he is "improving" offensively, he will need at least a decade.