Phil Greene

The discussion seems to accept a three guard offense as a given. I thought there were times yesterday where we might have had more success with CO and JDR clogging the middle and Dom going outside as a guard on defense and a constant slashing source of double screens and give and go cuts for DLo and Sheed on offense. If you establish that then other stuff works better as well.
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Sorry, but I don't think CO and JDR should ever be on the court together. Both are big men with little to no handle.
 
My main issue with Phil Greene is, outside of scoring he doesn't contribute anything! He has the most empty stat sheet you can find. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't get assists, he doesn't create his own shot. Against Seton Hall he was on the floor for 34 minutes and had 1 rebound, 0 assists, and 1 steal. Additionally, he doesn't get to the free throw line either. At least he doesn't turn the ball over, but that's because he's usually doing nothing productive when he gets it.

Now I'm not saying he shouldn't be used, because he used effectively when under control as a spot up shooter, especially since we don't have many options. I wouldn't be opposed to Branch getting more of Phil's minutes though.
 
My main issue with Phil Greene is, outside of scoring he doesn't contribute anything! He has the most empty stat sheet you can find. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't get assists, he doesn't create his own shot. Against Seton Hall he was on the floor for 34 minutes and had 1 rebound, 0 assists, and 1 steal. Additionally, he doesn't get to the free throw line either. At least he doesn't turn the ball over, but that's because he's usually doing nothing productive when he gets it.

Now I'm not saying he shouldn't be used, because he used effectively when under control as a spot up shooter, especially since we don't have many options. I wouldn't be opposed to Branch getting more of Phil's minutes though.
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Something to be said about that If only Brach was a more consistent shooter he would get much more time on the court
 
My main issue with Phil Greene is, outside of scoring he doesn't contribute anything! He has the most empty stat sheet you can find. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't get assists, he doesn't create his own shot. Against Seton Hall he was on the floor for 34 minutes and had 1 rebound, 0 assists, and 1 steal. Additionally, he doesn't get to the free throw line either. At least he doesn't turn the ball over, but that's because he's usually doing nothing productive when he gets it.

Now I'm not saying he shouldn't be used, because he used effectively when under control as a spot up shooter, especially since we don't have many options. I wouldn't be opposed to Branch getting more of Phil's minutes though.
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Something to be said about that If only Brach was a more consistent shooter he would get much more time on the court
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We really don't need him to shoot though. He's the point guard on our team consistently getting assists, and is at his best when he penetrates, something Phil never does.
 
My main issue with Phil Greene is, outside of scoring he doesn't contribute anything! He has the most empty stat sheet you can find. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't get assists, he doesn't create his own shot. Against Seton Hall he was on the floor for 34 minutes and had 1 rebound, 0 assists, and 1 steal. Additionally, he doesn't get to the free throw line either. At least he doesn't turn the ball over, but that's because he's usually doing nothing productive when he gets it.

Now I'm not saying he shouldn't be used, because he used effectively when under control as a spot up shooter, especially since we don't have many options. I wouldn't be opposed to Branch getting more of Phil's minutes though.
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Been an issue his entire career here unfortunately. He's mostly been a 30+ MPG guy (often out of necessity) and has never once averaged 3 rebounds or 3 assists per. Good teammate, plays very hard, seems coachable, but unless he's scoring (which as Paultz referenced in the original post is up and down), he's giving you pretty empty minutes as you alluded to.
 
I really like the ball movement this year, but to me at least there are too many short possessions with questionable shot selection. My concerns that I voiced continually during the offseason were mainly centered around a three guard offense where two of the three (Harrison and Greene) shoot less than 40% from the field. When that happens, it's difficult to offset the height disadvantage in most games with a better offensive flow and more dangerous outside shooters. We've compensated for this so far with an aggressive, tireless, swarming defense which has made a huge difference in outcomes. The ball is moving much better on offense, but even accepting all valid criticisms here of Greene's shot selection, I just don't see him changing at this point.
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Agreed completely Beast. With Harrison improving his efficiency to an incredible level thus far (83/45/35), especially in light of the volume scoring we require from him, it's really Greene's 38% that continues to be an issue. He should and is going to continue to play big minutes, but either has to shoot better or shoot less. Need him to be more steady, less volatile.
 
I like Phil Greene. There are probably 3 or 4 shots a game I wish he didn't take but I think he plays hard when he's on the court and doesn't turn the ball over. I think this board is hard on him.

This board loves Jordan but I would rather have PGIV on the floor, Jordan turns the ball over then doesn't hustle back on defense which drives me crazy. There's a reason Sina had a career day is because Jordan was guarding him
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Greene's shot volume and low % are tantamount to turnovers...fact that he often takes them in bunches results in momentum swings in the wrong direction often putting us in a hole
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+5000. 35-32 SJU with 2:02 to play in the first. Next three possessions are PGIV missed 3, PGIV missed long 2 (these two shots were separated by only 19 seconds despite a defensive possession inbetween!), Jordan turnover. 8-0 Hall run, 40-35 at the half. We were largely in control to that point and this was the momentum swing that changed the game.
 
Over time, Phil has had the best 3-point percentage of anyone on the team. However, he has to be in one of the spots he is comfortable in and has to have his feet set. He runs into trouble when he forces shots. He is a fine defender, an ok ball-handler, and has great mental toughness.

It seems to me that the question Paultzman is really asking is whether Phil is being used properly. Like any other player, he has strengths and weaknesses. IMHO it is the coaching staff's job to figure out how to use a player's strengths and hide their weaknesses. If Phil's strength is standing at the 3 point line, then a good game plan would call for him to do more of that and less of things that he doesn't have as high a success rate at.

I guess another option would be to just bench him instead of figuring out how to make good use of him. The problem there is that's already what the staff has done with half the players on the roster, which is why we're only playing 6 guys.
 
Over time, Phil has had the best 3-point percentage of anyone on the team. However, he has to be in one of the spots he is comfortable in and has to have his feet set. He runs into trouble when he forces shots. He is a fine defender, an ok ball-handler, and has great mental toughness.

It seems to me that the question Paultzman is really asking is whether Phil is being used properly. Like any other player, he has strengths and weaknesses. IMHO it is the coaching staff's job to figure out how to use a player's strengths and hide their weaknesses. If Phil's strength is standing at the 3 point line, then a good game plan would call for him to do more of that and less of things that he doesn't have as high a success rate at.

I guess another option would be to just bench him instead of figuring out how to make good use of him. The problem there is that's already what the staff has done with half the players on the roster, which is why we're only playing 6 guys.
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To play devil's advocate, I'd say we're playing 6 guys because they are our best 6, most talented, and give us our best chance to win. I don't think the other guys are being benched benched because Lavin doesn't know how to use them, rather they just aren't as good as the ones getting the minutes.
 
Unfortunately, I believe that Lavin and the Johnnies will have to live with Greene with minimal improvements in his game. On some nights, beating a Syracuse on their home court will be in his toolbox as the key contributor. On others, we may complain a bit about errant missles launched. Hopefully there will be more of the former and less of the latter, but for sure there will be both.
 
Over time, Phil has had the best 3-point percentage of anyone on the team. However, he has to be in one of the spots he is comfortable in and has to have his feet set. He runs into trouble when he forces shots. He is a fine defender, an ok ball-handler, and has great mental toughness.

It seems to me that the question Paultzman is really asking is whether Phil is being used properly. Like any other player, he has strengths and weaknesses. IMHO it is the coaching staff's job to figure out how to use a player's strengths and hide their weaknesses. If Phil's strength is standing at the 3 point line, then a good game plan would call for him to do more of that and less of things that he doesn't have as high a success rate at.

I guess another option would be to just bench him instead of figuring out how to make good use of him. The problem there is that's already what the staff has done with half the players on the roster, which is why we're only playing 6 guys.
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To play devil's advocate, I'd say we're playing 6 guys because they are our best 6, most talented, and give us our best chance to win. I don't think the other guys are being benched benched because Lavin doesn't know how to use them, rather they just aren't as good as the ones getting the minutes.
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Will never sustain sufficient energy level over 18 BE games by playing six men too often Imo.
 
Unfortunately, I believe that Lavin and the Johnnies will have to live with Greene with minimal improvements in his game. On some nights, beating a Syracuse on their home court will be in his toolbox as the key contributor. On others, we may complain a bit about errant missles launched. Hopefully there will be more of the former and less of the latter, but for sure there will be both.
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Good discussion on Phil guys.
 
I believe PHIL IV would be better utilized if he came off the bench rather than get starter minutes. IMHO, Jordan, DLO,Branch, CO,DOM should be the starting 5. I think Jordan resents not starting every game, without question.
When he comes in off the Bench he tends to force things a lot and usually not with good results.

Jordan has put early season numbers up but, to me his chemistry looks bad and he's not playing team ball as well as he did in the past. Why?

Greene is a streaky contributor, not a steady one and that is his strength. Letting Phil have 18 shots a game is not a winning formula and it takes away much of the go to the hoop game that is Jordan's best skill.

A delicate balancing act for sure but, one the Coaches should be able to pull it off.
 
I agree. Would like to see that starting lineup ,to see how it does. Branch is the purest PG we have and Jorden is a better scorer than Phil. If it helps Sheeds ego, so be it. Like others have said Phil has to take higher percentage shots.
 
I believe PHIL IV would be better utilized if he came off the bench rather than get starter minutes. IMHO, Jordan, DLO,Branch, CO,DOM should be the starting 5. I think Jordan resents not starting every game, without question.
When he comes in off the Bench he tends to force things a lot and usually not with good results.

Jordan has put early season numbers up but, to me his chemistry looks bad and he's not playing team ball as well as he did in the past. Why?

Greene is a streaky contributor, not a steady one and that is his strength. Letting Phil have 18 shots a game is not a winning formula and it takes away much of the go to the hoop game that is Jordan's best skill.

A delicate balancing act for sure but, one the Coaches should be able to pull it off.
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Here's the thing about that. Your 6th man should be a game changer, and in a positive way. When a guy shoots under 40%, you have no idea what you are going to get. Jordan can take over a game for stretches at a time, sometimes registering 12 or more points in just a few minutes, and some of them are the "wow-he-took-him-to-the-hole-so-easily" variety. I'd much prefer the reliability of a near 50% shooter off the bench than a PG/
 
I really like the ball movement this year, but to me at least there are too many short possessions with questionable shot selection. My concerns that I voiced continually during the offseason were mainly centered around a three guard offense where two of the three (Harrison and Greene) shoot less than 40% from the field. When that happens, it's difficult to offset the height disadvantage in most games with a better offensive flow and more dangerous outside shooters. We've compensated for this so far with an aggressive, tireless, swarming defense which has made a huge difference in outcomes. The ball is moving much better on offense, but even accepting all valid criticisms here of Greene's shot selection, I just don't see him changing at this point.
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Agreed completely Beast. With Harrison improving his efficiency to an incredible level thus far (83/45/35), especially in light of the volume scoring we require from him, it's really Greene's 38% that continues to be an issue. He should and is going to continue to play big minutes, but either has to shoot better or shoot less. Need him to be more steady, less volatile.
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Harrison's shot selection has improved dramatically. He is an outright menace with his midrange game...he does such a good job positioning himself against the defender when he gets past them and then drawing contact from the help d. Pointer has improved as well. I'd like to see Jordan and Greene get on the same page.

The identity of this team is defense and hustle. It can't just be CO-Harrison-Jordan-Pointer doing that. Branch and Greene have to step up...empty stat lines are unacceptable. Branch was very impressive on the boards against SH (led with 7)...skying for a few over bigs. Why can't he bring that every game. Greene plays like the BE defensive POY the least two minutes of close games....where is that the rest of the game?
 
I really like the ball movement this year, but to me at least there are too many short possessions with questionable shot selection. My concerns that I voiced continually during the offseason were mainly centered around a three guard offense where two of the three (Harrison and Greene) shoot less than 40% from the field. When that happens, it's difficult to offset the height disadvantage in most games with a better offensive flow and more dangerous outside shooters. We've compensated for this so far with an aggressive, tireless, swarming defense which has made a huge difference in outcomes. The ball is moving much better on offense, but even accepting all valid criticisms here of Greene's shot selection, I just don't see him changing at this point.
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Agreed completely Beast. With Harrison improving his efficiency to an incredible level thus far (83/45/35), especially in light of the volume scoring we require from him, it's really Greene's 38% that continues to be an issue. He should and is going to continue to play big minutes, but either has to shoot better or shoot less. Need him to be more steady, less volatile.
Click to expand...

Harrison's shot selection has improved dramatically. He is an outright menace with his midrange game...he does such a good job positioning himself against the defender when he gets past them and then drawing contact from the help d. Pointer has improved as well. I'd like to see Jordan and Greene get on the same page.

The identity of this team is defense and hustle. It can't just be CO-Harrison-Jordan-Pointer doing that. Branch and Greene have to step up...empty stat lines are unacceptable. Branch was very impressive on the boards against SH (led with 7)...skying for a over bigs. Why can't he bring that every game. Greene plays the BE defensive POY the least two minutes of close games....where is that the rest of the game?
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Agree 100%. Harrison is having a career year, senior in every way. He maybe, just maybe is playing himself into serious draft consideration, which was thought to be not in the cards when the season began.
 
I believe PHIL IV would be better utilized if he came off the bench rather than get starter minutes. IMHO, Jordan, DLO,Branch, CO,DOM should be the starting 5. I think Jordan resents not starting every game, without question.
When he comes in off the Bench he tends to force things a lot and usually not with good results.

Jordan has put early season numbers up but, to me his chemistry looks bad and he's not playing team ball as well as he did in the past. Why?

Greene is a streaky contributor, not a steady one and that is his strength. Letting Phil have 18 shots a game is not a winning formula and it takes away much of the go to the hoop game that is Jordan's best skill.

A delicate balancing act for sure but, one the Coaches should be able to pull it off.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing about that. Your 6th man should be a game changer, and in a positive way. When a guy shoots under 40%, you have no idea what you are going to get. Jordan can take over a game for stretches at a time, sometimes registering 12 or more points in just a few minutes, and some of them are the "wow-he-took-him-to-the-hole-so-easily" variety. I'd much prefer the reliability of a near 50% shooter off the bench than a PG/
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Good point about catalysts off the Bench but, what I saw in the SH game was a out of control Jordan for much of the game and not a game changer. Maybe Phil doesn't shoot less than 40% if he doesn't play the minutes he's getting? 18 shots for Phil is way too many to yield the points we need from a more reliable scorer,i.e Jordan. Plus, as I mentioned, I believe Jordan resents not starting.. As the highest rated recruit of the Lavin era, why wouldn't he resent giving up starter minutes and shots to Phil? Phil is not a playmaker, Jordan can be. Plus, Phil doesn't penetrate like RJ does and his misses are more easily rebounded than some of Phil's long clanks off the rim.That lead to uncontested layups the other way..


Just my opinion, Beast. The Coach gets $$$ to figure this stuff out..
 
Over time, Phil has had the best 3-point percentage of anyone on the team. However, he has to be in one of the spots he is comfortable in and has to have his feet set. He runs into trouble when he forces shots. He is a fine defender, an ok ball-handler, and has great mental toughness.

It seems to me that the question Paultzman is really asking is whether Phil is being used properly. Like any other player, he has strengths and weaknesses. IMHO it is the coaching staff's job to figure out how to use a player's strengths and hide their weaknesses. If Phil's strength is standing at the 3 point line, then a good game plan would call for him to do more of that and less of things that he doesn't have as high a success rate at.

I guess another option would be to just bench him instead of figuring out how to make good use of him. The problem there is that's already what the staff has done with half the players on the roster, which is why we're only playing 6 guys.
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On offense, he essentially should play a similar rol to Myles Stewart who runs to a spot and waits for an open look...

Phil can get to the hoop but unfortunately rarely converts..its a shame because he is able to get by defenders fairly easily
 
As soon as Jordan stops forcing I'd say play him as much as he can handle. But the quick shots combined with the excessive turnovers are a killer.
 
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