Perspective
- Thread starter panther2
- Start date
MarkRedman
Well-known member
Panther - outstanding post - you are 100% correct.
But, having been a St John's fan for more than 50 years, I know that what St John's fans do best (or most often) is to bitch and moan every time we lose a game or someone doesn't play up to his usual standards or it's perceived that the coach didn't do a good job on a particular day or the refs made a bunch of bad calls.
I look forward to every game to cheer on my beloved Johnnies. I'll watch every game until the end, win or lose. Yes, I do yell at the TV screen at times for various reasons because I'm passionate about St John's but, in the end, I am a fan regardless of the outcome and regardless of our record.
Any school willing to grant me two degrees deserves my undying support!!
But, having been a St John's fan for more than 50 years, I know that what St John's fans do best (or most often) is to bitch and moan every time we lose a game or someone doesn't play up to his usual standards or it's perceived that the coach didn't do a good job on a particular day or the refs made a bunch of bad calls.
I look forward to every game to cheer on my beloved Johnnies. I'll watch every game until the end, win or lose. Yes, I do yell at the TV screen at times for various reasons because I'm passionate about St John's but, in the end, I am a fan regardless of the outcome and regardless of our record.
Any school willing to grant me two degrees deserves my undying support!!
QueensBall
Member
Yes, definitely good post.
I didn't get to watch the game until later in the evening although I knew the outcome by then. I was surprised that the reaction here still felt kind of similar to the St. Peter's game. I thought the team's performance while not amazing was much, much better. We beat them by 17 even with 2 of our starters out. The first 10 minutes of the 2nd half was the first time I thought this group really looked like a good team and even when they let it slip a little they never let it get closer than 8, hit their FT's and pulled away like they're supposed to. The defense was clearly better. We turned the ball over too much. It was sloppy. If we had been better with the ball it would have been more pleasing to the eye I guess.
There's a lot of ugly basketball and weird outcomes all over right now. 6 of the guys in this rotation didn't play for this team last season and they were missing a couple key players last night. I think this group is going to come together in an exciting way at some point.
I didn't get to watch the game until later in the evening although I knew the outcome by then. I was surprised that the reaction here still felt kind of similar to the St. Peter's game. I thought the team's performance while not amazing was much, much better. We beat them by 17 even with 2 of our starters out. The first 10 minutes of the 2nd half was the first time I thought this group really looked like a good team and even when they let it slip a little they never let it get closer than 8, hit their FT's and pulled away like they're supposed to. The defense was clearly better. We turned the ball over too much. It was sloppy. If we had been better with the ball it would have been more pleasing to the eye I guess.
There's a lot of ugly basketball and weird outcomes all over right now. 6 of the guys in this rotation didn't play for this team last season and they were missing a couple key players last night. I think this group is going to come together in an exciting way at some point.
Mods if we have a suggestion box, I'd like to suggest that this post be made a sticky. Every season, usually right around the start, Panther is kind enough to remind everyone to keep things in perspective. It might be good to keep that reminder up all season, especially for those rougher moments when we all need a little "perspective".
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
The negative posts teach us so much. For instance,Earlington should transfer and play football at Rutgers, Wusu was a thrown-in player (looks better than that already), and Toro is the next Steere (will not happen). Without these posts, the forum would be too serious. We all need to laugh at each other now and then.
Everyone here should know by now that neither players, coaches or teams can be judged by a few games. I thought St. Peter's has some nice players and played with a lot of effort and poise. Despite sleep walking and missing an important starter, and have 2 other major pieces get hurt during the game, the team overcame that.
CMA wanted more effort and got it out of the gate from Williams right away. I like our team. A lot of talent and players with a variety of skill sets. We saw a lot of improvement overnight. There are good things ahead. Plus it feels so good to being watching college basketball again.
Everyone here should know by now that neither players, coaches or teams can be judged by a few games. I thought St. Peter's has some nice players and played with a lot of effort and poise. Despite sleep walking and missing an important starter, and have 2 other major pieces get hurt during the game, the team overcame that.
CMA wanted more effort and got it out of the gate from Williams right away. I like our team. A lot of talent and players with a variety of skill sets. We saw a lot of improvement overnight. There are good things ahead. Plus it feels so good to being watching college basketball again.
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="Monte" post=403814]Mods if we have a suggestion box, I'd like to suggest that this post be made a sticky. Every season, usually right around the start, Panther is kind enough to remind everyone to keep things in perspective. It might be good to keep that reminder up all season, especially for those rougher moments when we all need a little "perspective".[/quote]
Sure why not. We already have 8 sticky threads. Lets make the whole first page stickies
Sure why not. We already have 8 sticky threads. Lets make the whole first page stickies
beast of the east
Active member
Yea, but just imagine what the mood would be in Cole missed that shot AND we lost to LaSalle. Fans are bipolar for certain and honestly there isn't a poster on here who hasn't had his inappropriately negative moments except maybe jsj.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=403847]Yea, but just imagine what the mood would be in Cole missed that shot AND we lost to LaSalle. Fans are bipolar for certain and honestly there isn't a poster on here who hasn't had his inappropriately negative moments except maybe jsj.[/quote] jsj or Panther
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=403858][quote="Beast of the East" post=403847]Yea, but just imagine what the mood would be in Cole missed that shot AND we lost to LaSalle. Fans are bipolar for certain and honestly there isn't a poster on here who hasn't had his inappropriately negative moments except maybe jsj.[/quote] jsj or Panther[/quote]
SS+G
SS+G
beast of the east
Active member
One thing that is certainly true is that St. John's is aware of this site and the negativity and inappropriate bashing that Panther is dead-on correct about. So many people who work at St. John's are not simply employees - they are great fans of our sports teams and everything St. John's. While I don't agree that Redmen.com is a cesspool, as some have suggested, I understand that when individuals get inappropriately bashed by name, they would feel that way.
The notion that players and their families, or the athletic department themselves have not read or paid attention to this site at least at some point, is ridiculous. One player last year on social media tweeted something to the effect of "F*** y;all", fed up by those criticizing him constantly on this and other social media platforms.
I do believe that social media platforms such as even a a specific one such as this, not censor objective opinions, negativity does degrade the site. I know the in game thread is popular, and I like it, but perhaps it might have to be suspended, and after painful losses, all threads be locked down at least till the next morning. In many cases, a lot us US (yes, us) can't control our emotions when we play poorly or lose.
The notion that players and their families, or the athletic department themselves have not read or paid attention to this site at least at some point, is ridiculous. One player last year on social media tweeted something to the effect of "F*** y;all", fed up by those criticizing him constantly on this and other social media platforms.
I do believe that social media platforms such as even a a specific one such as this, not censor objective opinions, negativity does degrade the site. I know the in game thread is popular, and I like it, but perhaps it might have to be suspended, and after painful losses, all threads be locked down at least till the next morning. In many cases, a lot us US (yes, us) can't control our emotions when we play poorly or lose.
Last edited:
Beast you surprise me seemingly feeding into censorship and cancel culture territory. Every team is going to have a segment of their fanbase that can be considered negative it's human nature. I would suggest that those affiliated with the school that are offended either learn to ignore what they feel is unjust criticism or buck up and not let it offend them. Maybe in the past some of our fan boards were overly harsh with their criticisms but I don't see anything close to over the top criticism on this fan site. Perhaps you are being overly sensitive yourself. JMHO
Moose
Well-known member
Another annual tradition ranking up there with the nickname debate and why we don't have a local tournament at the Garden.
This site is just like 300 plus other sites for the other D1 teams out there. Redmen is not anything more or less than those. Go look at those sites when they lose to a mid major or squeak by on a last second basket. They aren't singing Kumbaya in a circle either.
This site is just like 300 plus other sites for the other D1 teams out there. Redmen is not anything more or less than those. Go look at those sites when they lose to a mid major or squeak by on a last second basket. They aren't singing Kumbaya in a circle either.
Last edited:
[quote="bamafan" post=403877]Beast you surprise me seemingly feeding into censorship and cancel culture territory. Every team is going to have a segment of their fanbase that can be considered negative it's human nature. I would suggest that those affiliated with the school that are offended either learn to ignore what they feel is unjust criticism or buck up and not let it offend them. Maybe in the past some of our fan boards were overly harsh with their criticisms but I don't see anything close to over the top criticism on this fan site. Perhaps you are being overly sensitive yourself. JMHO[/quote]
Well said Bama.I respect the mods’ ability and record of keeping a fan board well within the boundaries of civility and appropriateness. No need for moral policing IMO. If it was needed, I simply would not post here.
Well said Bama.I respect the mods’ ability and record of keeping a fan board well within the boundaries of civility and appropriateness. No need for moral policing IMO. If it was needed, I simply would not post here.
Last edited by a moderator:
When certain people sit in a ballpark or an Arena they often yell out anything and sometimes the nature of those comments are unimaginable to civil sensitive human beings. The Duke of Earlington correctly characterized that venting as therapy. This is a time honored tradition at sporting events around the world. Those public utterances however dissipate into the atmosphere and are somewhat different from the written word which does not dissipate and has a life beyond the moment of an utterance.
The thought process around posting a comment should be different than shouting out something and the process of posting should be different too. The ability to read and think before you click and post should really be a basic standard when you put something out there on any public forum.
Yelling things at my TV set in the privacy of my living room will absolutely have a different tone and content than things I would post on a public forum.
What I took most out of panther2's post was the thought and emotional process he actually underwent during a topsy turvy last thirty seconds of the surprising end of the St. Peter's game. It is was very thoughtful and different I suspect for him because he had relationships with people involved on both sides of the game. That said while players/coaches may be strangers to most of us they should not be treated as such. Every post made on a public forum might be read by a friend of, a relative of or an actual player/coach themselves. At the end of the day it is wise before clicking to at least be aware of that reality. I do not believe so much in censorship but I do believe strongly in using good judgement and being civil. A forum like this is a wonderful place for different opinions and open debate. The quality of delivering those ideas however is enhanced by panther2's call for thoughtfulness and perspective.
The thought process around posting a comment should be different than shouting out something and the process of posting should be different too. The ability to read and think before you click and post should really be a basic standard when you put something out there on any public forum.
Yelling things at my TV set in the privacy of my living room will absolutely have a different tone and content than things I would post on a public forum.
What I took most out of panther2's post was the thought and emotional process he actually underwent during a topsy turvy last thirty seconds of the surprising end of the St. Peter's game. It is was very thoughtful and different I suspect for him because he had relationships with people involved on both sides of the game. That said while players/coaches may be strangers to most of us they should not be treated as such. Every post made on a public forum might be read by a friend of, a relative of or an actual player/coach themselves. At the end of the day it is wise before clicking to at least be aware of that reality. I do not believe so much in censorship but I do believe strongly in using good judgement and being civil. A forum like this is a wonderful place for different opinions and open debate. The quality of delivering those ideas however is enhanced by panther2's call for thoughtfulness and perspective.
Last edited:
[quote="ghostzapper" post=403881]When certain people sit in a ballpark or an Arena they often yell out anything and sometimes the nature of those comments are unimaginable to civil sensitive human beings. The Duke of Earlington correctly characterized that venting as therapy. This is a time honored tradition at sporting events around the world. Those public utterances however dissipate into the atmosphere and are somewhat different from the written word which does not dissipate and has a life beyond the moment of an utterance.
The thought process around posting a comment should be different than shouting out something and the process of posting should be different too. The ability to read and think before you click and post should really be a basic standard when you put something out there on any public forum.
Yelling things at my TV set in the privacy of my living room will absolutely have a different tone and content than things I would post on a public forum.
What I took most out of panther2's post was the thought and emotional process he actually underwent during a topsy turvy last thirty seconds of the surprising end of the St. Peter's game. It is was very thoughtful and different I suspect for him because he had relationships with people involved on both sides of the game. That said while players/coaches may be strangers to most of us they should not be treated as such. Every post made on a public forum might be read by a friend of, a relative of or an actual player/coach themselves. At the end of the day it is wise before clicking to at least be aware of that reality. I do not believe so much in censorship but I do believe strongly in using good judgement and being civil. A forum like this is a wonderful place for different opinions and open debate. The quality of delivering those ideas however is enhanced by panther2's call for thoughtfulness and perspective.[/quote]
Ghostzapper, you have it correct. I was not advocating censorship. In my post, I stated that Williams and Earlington did not play well against St. Peters. My point was once it is stated that the team or certain individuals played poorly, why the necessity to go on and on.
I also understand constructive criticism, for example, if someone stated that maybe we needed to change the defense, a certain player should have received more minutes, etc.
In the 17 pages of the Post game St Peters thread, I don't recall anyone stating that it was a testament to the team's coaching and mindset that they did not give up when they were down 4 points with time running out.. The team made a lot of mistakes during the game but regurgitating the same things over 17 pages, I felt that was overkill.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with critiquing the team's play. But as Ghostzapper said, give some thought to what you are saying before you hit the submit button. I know that I said WTF on numerous occasions Wednesday night, but the was in the confines of where I watched the game.
We are all grown, and know what is appropriate and what isn't.
The thought process around posting a comment should be different than shouting out something and the process of posting should be different too. The ability to read and think before you click and post should really be a basic standard when you put something out there on any public forum.
Yelling things at my TV set in the privacy of my living room will absolutely have a different tone and content than things I would post on a public forum.
What I took most out of panther2's post was the thought and emotional process he actually underwent during a topsy turvy last thirty seconds of the surprising end of the St. Peter's game. It is was very thoughtful and different I suspect for him because he had relationships with people involved on both sides of the game. That said while players/coaches may be strangers to most of us they should not be treated as such. Every post made on a public forum might be read by a friend of, a relative of or an actual player/coach themselves. At the end of the day it is wise before clicking to at least be aware of that reality. I do not believe so much in censorship but I do believe strongly in using good judgement and being civil. A forum like this is a wonderful place for different opinions and open debate. The quality of delivering those ideas however is enhanced by panther2's call for thoughtfulness and perspective.[/quote]
Ghostzapper, you have it correct. I was not advocating censorship. In my post, I stated that Williams and Earlington did not play well against St. Peters. My point was once it is stated that the team or certain individuals played poorly, why the necessity to go on and on.
I also understand constructive criticism, for example, if someone stated that maybe we needed to change the defense, a certain player should have received more minutes, etc.
In the 17 pages of the Post game St Peters thread, I don't recall anyone stating that it was a testament to the team's coaching and mindset that they did not give up when they were down 4 points with time running out.. The team made a lot of mistakes during the game but regurgitating the same things over 17 pages, I felt that was overkill.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with critiquing the team's play. But as Ghostzapper said, give some thought to what you are saying before you hit the submit button. I know that I said WTF on numerous occasions Wednesday night, but the was in the confines of where I watched the game.
We are all grown, and know what is appropriate and what isn't.
This. >>>
[quote="panther2" post=403885]
Ghostzapper, you have it correct. I was not advocating censorship. In my post, I stated that Williams and Earlington did not play well against St. Peters. My point was once it is stated that the team or certain individuals played poorly, why the necessity to go on and on.
I also understand constructive criticism, for example, if someone stated that maybe we needed to change the defense, a certain player should have received more minutes, etc.
In the 17 pages of the Post game St Peters thread, I don't recall anyone stating that it was a testament to the team's coaching and mindset that they did not give up when they were down 4 points with time running out.. The team made a lot of mistakes during the game but regurgitating the same things over 17 pages, I felt that was overkill.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with critiquing the team's play. But as Ghostzapper said, give some thought to what you are saying before you hit the submit button. I know that I said WTF on numerous occasions Wednesday night, but the was in the confines of where I watched the game.
We are all grown, and know what is appropriate and what isn't.[/quote]
[quote="panther2" post=403885]
Ghostzapper, you have it correct. I was not advocating censorship. In my post, I stated that Williams and Earlington did not play well against St. Peters. My point was once it is stated that the team or certain individuals played poorly, why the necessity to go on and on.
I also understand constructive criticism, for example, if someone stated that maybe we needed to change the defense, a certain player should have received more minutes, etc.
In the 17 pages of the Post game St Peters thread, I don't recall anyone stating that it was a testament to the team's coaching and mindset that they did not give up when they were down 4 points with time running out.. The team made a lot of mistakes during the game but regurgitating the same things over 17 pages, I felt that was overkill.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with critiquing the team's play. But as Ghostzapper said, give some thought to what you are saying before you hit the submit button. I know that I said WTF on numerous occasions Wednesday night, but the was in the confines of where I watched the game.
We are all grown, and know what is appropriate and what isn't.[/quote]
Last edited:
You have a combination of:
A rabid fan base who suffer with each loss
A game with many more missed shots and turnovers than made shots
A recent invention which allows one to vent his displeasure immediately in print instead of simply yelling at the tv
Like throwing fuel on the fire
A rabid fan base who suffer with each loss
A game with many more missed shots and turnovers than made shots
A recent invention which allows one to vent his displeasure immediately in print instead of simply yelling at the tv
Like throwing fuel on the fire
JohnnyFever
Active member
Nice post panther...I will admit I'm often not as optimistic as you but appreciate your insight and sentiments. The thing I will say is: compare our results with our reactions as a fanbase. Would we really be so "negative" if our results weren't mostly negative for the past 20 yrs? You reap what you sow. Yes, as fans we will ride and die with our team. But it doesn't mean only pointing out positives. Being a fan is toughing out the bad times and savoring the good times. I have not seen 1 poster on here who could be deemed "negative" lose all hope. The hope is always there. Unfortunately, the results often have not been.
Being "negative" is being down even in moments we have good reason to be thrilled. When we have had real reason to be thrilled, I have not seen one fan on here giving us the gloomy outlook. When we beat a ranked team, I literally spend the next several days reading articles, looking at box score, and a big smile is on my face. Last year I was at the game we beat WVU and it was such a nice train ride home. I wasn't pessimistic about a big win. I woke up at 3 AM to check our score vs. Arizona and woke up my gf yelling "holy crap we won!" (which she wasn't as thrilled about). Why? Because I'm nuts for the program. I want them to do great things and I do have hope even if it's tested many times. Everyone deserves a right to vent when things are not looking up. The worst thing you can do is hold it in to protect overly sensitive people from reading different opinions. Venting should be appropriate, but it should be allowed because we are humans. Just my thoughts.
Being "negative" is being down even in moments we have good reason to be thrilled. When we have had real reason to be thrilled, I have not seen one fan on here giving us the gloomy outlook. When we beat a ranked team, I literally spend the next several days reading articles, looking at box score, and a big smile is on my face. Last year I was at the game we beat WVU and it was such a nice train ride home. I wasn't pessimistic about a big win. I woke up at 3 AM to check our score vs. Arizona and woke up my gf yelling "holy crap we won!" (which she wasn't as thrilled about). Why? Because I'm nuts for the program. I want them to do great things and I do have hope even if it's tested many times. Everyone deserves a right to vent when things are not looking up. The worst thing you can do is hold it in to protect overly sensitive people from reading different opinions. Venting should be appropriate, but it should be allowed because we are humans. Just my thoughts.
[quote="bamafan" post=403877]Beast you surprise me seemingly feeding into censorship and cancel culture territory. Every team is going to have a segment of their fanbase that can be considered negative it's human nature. I would suggest that those affiliated with the school that are offended either learn to ignore what they feel is unjust criticism or buck up and not let it offend them. Maybe in the past some of our fan boards were overly harsh with their criticisms but I don't see anything close to over the top criticism on this fan site. Perhaps you are being overly sensitive yourself. JMHO[/quote]
Bama you make a great point.
Everyone who reads this site knows I tend to go back and forth with posters who perhaps have a more “negative” slanted view of our program or our recruiting. And to be honest, I love it!
It’s a good thing. How boring would this site be if everyone thought the exact same way? I don’t agree with what posters say a lot of the time but to me it generates discussion on here and that’s great.
For example, Zaun and I have gone at it many times about recruiting, coaching, etc. but I know that guy loves this program and I know he wants them to succeed just as bad as the rest of the us. And that’s what matters the most IMO. Sure we have different perspectives on how to view the program from various angles but that’s okay. So many great fans on this site. Of course there are times when posters come along who seem like they are trolls and secretly want the program to fail, but I don’t think currently we have that issue. Just my 2 cents
Bama you make a great point.
Everyone who reads this site knows I tend to go back and forth with posters who perhaps have a more “negative” slanted view of our program or our recruiting. And to be honest, I love it!
It’s a good thing. How boring would this site be if everyone thought the exact same way? I don’t agree with what posters say a lot of the time but to me it generates discussion on here and that’s great.
For example, Zaun and I have gone at it many times about recruiting, coaching, etc. but I know that guy loves this program and I know he wants them to succeed just as bad as the rest of the us. And that’s what matters the most IMO. Sure we have different perspectives on how to view the program from various angles but that’s okay. So many great fans on this site. Of course there are times when posters come along who seem like they are trolls and secretly want the program to fail, but I don’t think currently we have that issue. Just my 2 cents