On Redmen Dot Com Mods Killing Dissenting Opinions

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[quote="Monte" post=367608][attachment=1193]DDB2401B-7A1F-4669-9F64-05562CFD56CC.jpeg[/attachment]

Wonder which one I should wear tonight[/quote] the one on the right
 
[quote="OhioFan" post=367609]Can't respond the I way want to, am drinking.[/quote] we've all been there just some of us PWI :)
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=367621]Sorry wearing a shirt with a confederate flag on it or driving a car with a confederate flag license plate on it is making a very ugly statement about the worst blot on our country's history. It has everything to do with race just like that war did. Thank God they lost. Not remotely comparable to the redmen nickname or logo.[/quote] But if it's a car and has Daisy Duke hanging on it with those super short jeans shorts I can get past the flag :)
 
mjmaherjr wrote: But if it's a car and has Daisy Duke hanging on it with those super short jeans shorts I can get past the flag

MJ I get the joke, but if you have anyone in your family who has roots to slavery, you wouldn't find it funny. Not trying to be holier than thou, but the confederate flag is no different than the swatstika in my humble opinion. My last word on the subject. This isn't an issue of political correctness, just human decency imho. It is very intimidating to any non-white who sees it down here.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=367644]mjmaherjr wrote: But if it's a car and has Daisy Duke hanging on it with those super short jeans shorts I can get past the flag

MJ I get the joke, but if you have anyone in your family who has roots to slavery, you wouldn't find it funny. Not trying to be holier than thou, but the confederate flag is no different than the swatstika in my humble opinion. My last word on the subject. This isn't an issue of political correctness, just human decency imho. It is very intimidating to any non-white who sees it down here.[/quote] I get it. On my moms side ( I'm pretty sure the Harrison side ) there were way distant relatives part of the underground railroad.

But Daisy Duke was one of my first crushes
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=367611]I go away for a few days and I come back to this? Crazy.

My two cents, and feel free to fact check me on this beacuse I wasn't around for most of it, but...

The name "Redmen" didn't come from anything related to Indians, American or otherwise. It was derived from the color of the uniforms the team wore. Syracuse are the "Orangemen" for the same reason. Finding offense in that word is absurd, unless you also feel that Cuse is racist towards Oranges as well.

The Indian Chief or Indian Warrior iconography came about much later when it was in vogue to use images like that in association with sports teams. Eventually society realized that it was using racist imagery in many cases and like most sports teams, St Johns chose not to actively or passively insult a minority group of Americans. I applaud that decision. I'd have preferred to keep the original Redmen name and ditch the offensive imagery, but understand the reasoning behind making a clean break.

My view on the old Redmen gear is simple. If it doesn't have the offensive imagery, go a head and wear it proudly. The name Redmen predated the Indian Logo by what...a half century or more? If you are sporting the Indian stuff, you should know that its offensive and reflects poorly on our fanbase and program. You have every right to be offensive, but you have to expect to take heat for that.

As for the BS comparison to the confederate flag...if you sport that disgrace in public you are supporting traitors to the United States and our constitution. It's your choice and your right to do that in this country, but only because the people that flag represents LOST the war they started. I hope you can appreciate the irony...[/quote]

You are a great poster here but the references to the Confederate battle flag and native American imagery are both true and exaggerated.
Yes, the Confederate flag represented a symbol of the nation's civil war and one of the tenents of the confederacy was the right to own slaves but it had many different meanings since the civil war. How many here lived in the south prior to the nineties? Long before our current cultural period of political correctness the flag had no connection with slavery or the civil war.
During the 1970s, the battle flag enjoyed a nationwide fad, and became a widely used popular culture symbol. "Confederate heritage groups protested and southern politicians legislated in vain against “desecration” when the flag assumed new meanings". It became a symbol of youthful rebellion, of “good ol’ boys,” (ever watch The Dukes of Hazard?) and southern rock music.
I lived for a period in both South Carolina and Texas in the 70's and loved going to concerts of the popular bands of the time. Over those years I attended dozens of concerts featuring great bands like Charlie Daniels, The Marshall Tucker Band, the Allman Brothers, Willie Nelson and others. It was common attire to wear a cap with the southern cross or tee shirts that had the Confederate flag in the art. That practice followed those bands even when they played in NYC, L.A. or Chicago. That generation (my generation) didn't associate the flag with racism. It was embedded into many state and city flags when I was in the south. In this era of political correctness symbols have become an increasingly negative image in the minds of the ultra liberal new morality left. Thus, anything remotely associated with that symbol, such as the southern cross, becomes a negative image and anyone wearing or using it becomes tarred and feathered.
As for depicting Indians, check out the official flag of New York City.
 
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Class of 72: I understand that some of our favorite southern bands in the 70s (mine was Tom Petty & the heartbreakers) associated the confederate flag with regional pride. That really is irrelevant though. Ask any African American who has grown up or spent any time in the south what they associate it with (justifiably) and you will have your answer - it needs to go.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=367648]Class of 72: I understand that some of our favorite southern bands in the 70s (mine was Tom Petty & the heartbreakers) associated the confederate flag with regional pride. That really is irrelevant though. Ask any African American who has grown up or spent any time in the south what they associate it with (justifiably) and you will have your answer - it needs to go.[/quote] See another reason I Ilike you. I'm huge Tom Petty fan. So glad we got to see him second to last tour at MSG
 
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My buddy gave my wife and I tickets to see him at their PNC box in Jersey around 2008 or 2009. I loved the concert, wish I'd got to see him on his last tour, such a really cool dude. He is prominently on my playlist, but what's kind of cool he is also on my 19 year old son's playlist!
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=367651]My buddy gave my wife and I tickets to see him at their PNC box in Jersey around 2008 or 2009. I loved the concert, wish I'd got to see him on his last tour, such a really cool dude. He is prominently on my playlist, but what's kind of cool he is also on my 19 year old son's playlist![/quote] I even love traveling wilburys because of him
 
Dont mean to be disrespectful, but the same folks who say the civil war was about state's rights are the ones who say there were fine people on both sides at Charlottesville! Just absurd.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=367648]Class of 72: I understand that some of our favorite southern bands in the 70s (mine was Tom Petty & the heartbreakers) associated the confederate flag with regional pride. That really is irrelevant though. Ask any African American who has grown up or spent any time in the south what they associate it with (justifiably) and you will have your answer - it needs to go.[/quote]

I don't disagree but there are two sides to every story or symbol.
In the culture of the western world the swastika represents antisemitism and white supremacy. In south Asian culture it is closely associated with Hinduism and predates the nazi symbol by 2,000 years. Hinduism is not abandoning a religious symbol to placate the western world.
The other side story of the Confederate flag and its association with southern "white" pride is the display of the black nationalist flag and its immunity from criticism.
A 1921 speech appearing in the Negro World weekly newspaper, Marcus Garvey was quoted as saying:

"Show me the race or the nation without a flag, and I will show you a race of people without any pride. Aye! In song and mimicry they have said, "Every race has a flag but the coon." How true! Aye! But that was said of us four years ago. They can't say it now. ..."

The Universal Negro Catechism, published by the UNIA in 1921, refers to the colors of the flag meaning:

"Red is the color of the blood which men must shed for their redemption and liberty; black is the color of the noble and distinguished race to which we belong; green is the color of the luxuriant vegetation of our Motherland."

So, today, it is fashionable to be black and have black pride and have a flag that symbolizes it and it is fine to point to Africa the motherland. Ask any African American who has grown up or spent any time in the south, east, north or west what they associate it with and you will have your answer.
Conversely, white Americans have no longer such latitude in associating with racial pride or European origin. That is considered racist.
In the Islamic world any symbol that includes a cross is considered anti Islamic. Some Islamic countries forbid the possession or showing of the flag of Israel or the star of David.
It goes on and on.
Those who deny history or manufacture false history is like denying the holocaust as is practice in some Muslim countries or protesting conservative speakers on college campuses and burning their books. Ironic that the ATIFA become the new fascists.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=367648]Class of 72: I understand that some of our favorite southern bands in the 70s (mine was Tom Petty & the heartbreakers) associated the confederate flag with regional pride. That really is irrelevant though. Ask any African American who has grown up or spent any time in the south what they associate it with (justifiably) and you will have your answer - it needs to go.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/us...ce-the-americans-who-fly-the-confederate-flag[/URL]

To many white people in the south and beyond, the Confederate flag is a sign of historic pride and defiance to whatever is currently called “liberalism”; to most black Americans, the flag stands for white supremacy and racial violence. Today, the symbol often appears at “pro-white” rallies and is a lightning rod in America’s calcifying racial divides.

“The Confederate flag played a big, big part in our history,” Ira says. “… Why are these minorities pushing to do away with this flag? Look at what’s happening to our statues!” he say

[URL]https://theracecardproject.com/confederate-flag-not-racist/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.prri.org/spotlight...icans-confederate-flag-southern-pride-racism/[/URL]

What Does the Confederate Flag Symbolize? Seven in ten Working-Class Whites Say “Southern Pride”

Recent PRRI research reveals deep racial and class divides over what the Confederate flag represents. A slim majority (51 percent) of Americans say they see the Confederate flag more as a symbol of southern pride, while more than four in ten (41 percent) Americans say they see it more as a symbol of racism.

But six in ten (60 percent) white Americans see the Confederate flag as a symbol of southern pride, a view shared by just 15 percent of black Americans. White Americans are sharply divided by social class: More than seven in ten (71 percent) white working-class Americans say the Confederate flag is more a symbol of southern pride than racism, a view shared by less than half (42 percent) of white college-educated Americans.
Notably, there are no divisions among whites by gender. Roughly equal numbers of white men (59 percent) and white women (60 percent) say the Confederate flag symbolizes southern pride.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=367658][quote="NCJohnnie" post=367648]Class of 72: I understand that some of our favorite southern bands in the 70s (mine was Tom Petty & the heartbreakers) associated the confederate flag with regional pride. That really is irrelevant though. Ask any African American who has grown up or spent any time in the south what they associate it with (justifiably) and you will have your answer - it needs to go.[/quote]

I don't disagree but there are two sides to every story or symbol.
In the culture of the western world the swastika represents antisemitism and white supremacy. In south Asian culture it is closely associated with Hinduism and predates the nazi symbol by 2,000 years. Hinduism is not abandoning a religious symbol to placate the western world.
The other side story of the Confederate flag and its association with southern "white" pride is the display of the black nationalist flag and its immunity from criticism.
A 1921 speech appearing in the Negro World weekly newspaper, Marcus Garvey was quoted as saying:

"Show me the race or the nation without a flag, and I will show you a race of people without any pride. Aye! In song and mimicry they have said, "Every race has a flag but the coon." How true! Aye! But that was said of us four years ago. They can't say it now. ..."

The Universal Negro Catechism, published by the UNIA in 1921, refers to the colors of the flag meaning:

"Red is the color of the blood which men must shed for their redemption and liberty; black is the color of the noble and distinguished race to which we belong; green is the color of the luxuriant vegetation of our Motherland."

So, today, it is fashionable to be black and have black pride and have a flag that symbolizes it and it is fine to point to Africa the motherland. Ask any African American who has grown up or spent any time in the south, east, north or west what they associate it with and you will have your answer.
Conversely, white Americans have no longer such latitude in associating with racial pride or European origin. That is considered racist.
In the Islamic world any symbol that includes a cross is considered anti Islamic. Some Islamic countries forbid the possession or showing of the flag of Israel or the star of David.
It goes on and on.
Those who deny history or manufacture false history is like denying the holocaust as is practice in some Muslim countries or protesting conservative speakers on college campuses and burning their books. Ironic that the ATIFA become the new fascists.[/quote]

Proud boys put an ass beating on Antifa
 
Very controversial topics here but pretty civil so far which is cool. Let me preface this by saying that I consider Trump arrogant, a poor speaker, abrasive, etc. but the truth is that the Charlottesville soundbite was cut off by CNN and presented as if it was the entire thing. It's stuff like this that divides the country so much. If you listen to his full quote, he goes on to say "I'm not talking about white nationalists...they should be condemned" after the "good people on both sides remarks". This is a major omission clearly intended for partisan reasons. Would I have worded the speech that way? Probably not, but he's 100% correct in what he said. There were nut job antifa far left protesters attacking people and instigating. There were also nut job neo nazis attacking people and instigating. But there were also people peacefully protesting and people peacefully rallying to keep statues without violence or any extremist affiliation. I consider neo nazis and antifa to be brainwashed idiots on either side of the spectrum, but that doesn't mean there was no middle ground POV's there. As a history buff, I don't believe we need to tear down statues, because when you set that precedent, it's a very slippery slope and you could make the case against keeping a statue for almost anyone if you really wanted to. I do think it would be fair to include controversy involving these figures on the plaques to offer both perspectives. But the Charlottesville Trump thing was completely taken out of context by the media to push their liberal agenda. Just wanted to point that out.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=367662]Very controversial topics here but pretty civil so far which is cool. Let me preface this by saying that I consider Trump arrogant, a poor speaker, abrasive, etc. but the truth is that the Charlottesville soundbite was cut off by CNN and presented as if it was the entire thing. It's stuff like this that divides the country so much. If you listen to his full quote, he goes on to say "I'm not talking about white nationalists...they should be condemned" after the "good people on both sides remarks". This is a major omission clearly intended for partisan reasons. Would I have worded the speech that way? Probably not, but he's 100% correct in what he said. There were nut job antifa far left protesters attacking people and instigating. There were also nut job neo nazis attacking people and instigating. But there were also people peacefully protesting and people peacefully rallying to keep statues without violence or any extremist affiliation. I consider neo nazis and antifa to be brainwashed idiots on either side of the spectrum, but that doesn't mean there was no middle ground POV's there. As a history buff, I don't believe we need to tear down statues, because when you set that precedent, it's a very slippery slope and you could make the case against keeping a statue for almost anyone if you really wanted to. I do think it would be fair to include controversy involving these figures on the plaques to offer both perspectives. But the Charlottesville Trump thing was completely taken out of context by the media to push their liberal agenda. Just wanted to point that out.[/quote]

I agree 100 percent. To tear down statues and burn books is a form of fascism that incites people. That fascism crosses racial and national boundaries. If you have to degrade another race to promote your own race then you are a racist. That includes white supremacists and the black nationalist movements. Religious bigotry is even more insidious. The other day two black Israelites murdered Jewish people because they are considered frauds by some in the radical left fringes of the Black Israelite church.
ISIS fascists tore down centuries old statues that were national landmarks in Syria and other countries because of their twisted interpretation of the Koran.
The ultra liberal left in the states of New York and California are trying to overthrow the government in fear of losing the next election. Powerful news outlets like CNN wash the facts to benefit the left. Normal human relationships are being treated as abnormal while being LGBT are being touted as the new normal. Being binary or gender non specific is being taught in schools and universities as being normal instead of a genetic defect.
In short, the radical left is saying they are OK and everybody else isn't. Especially if they are white, Christian and straight. In the end two wrongs will not make it right.
Finally, for a tepid fan to come on redmen.com to criticize the term redmen is hilarious. What's next? Banning Elks Clubs because they are offending animal lovers?
 
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